Charlotte Coliseum Massive Development - City Park

[Andyc545]

I used to work out here, and it's more unbelievable that this project is taking place considering how suburbia all of the exisiting office towers already are...

I just noticed it, but I like how they appointed little "districts" in the project. It's almost like it's own little downtown, with a retail district and town square.

Edited May 3, 2008 by Andyc545

[dubone]

It really will act like a downtown for the area. Many neighborhoods and parts of town do have a focal area, like you might think of in SouthPark, Ballantyne, NoDa, Plaza-Midwood, and other areas. The otherwise placeless area near City Park will now have a focal point where people can live, congregate and work.

One thing that I hadn't noticed before, but after looking back, it shows up as 'Reserved for future connection' in the 2nd Revision of the siteplan, and as a fully planned connection on the current master plan on their website: a connection on the southwest corner of the site to Stream Blvd taking advantage of the massive self-serving parkway/blvd roads in the horrible office park projects nearby. Hopefully, somehow the owners of those projects will eventually be inspired to build a deck and replace some of that ugly surface parking with a denser mixture of uses. Still, though, the connectivity will be great, as it allows for the use of Stream Blvd and Walter Ridge Parkway as an actual connection and not just as an oversized driveway as it is intended. Perhaps they can flatten out the speed humps on that 'parkway' eventually.

[Miesian Corners]

Looks like a really good plan. I agree with you, dub, it would be great if Coliseum Centre could rid itself of some of those surface lots and use all that freed up land for more development.

Question: is the street that cuts through the middle Paul Buck Blvd? Did they decide to keep Maya Lin's bushes, er, I mean, magnificent sculpture?

[krazeeboi]

I suppose that rendering answers my question about what's going to be done about Tyvola, at least along the stretch that will front City Park. And I absolutely love how it connects to the parcel I mentioned earlier across the street that will house retail.

As far as a denser mix of uses/parking decks in the LakePointe office complex, I wouldn't hold my breath about that.

[dubone]

They are offering to move them for free if there are any takers. They determined that due to so many cross streets cutting across that boulevard (a good thing, in my mind), that enough would need to be removed so as to disrupt the art of the whole installation. Anyway, bottom line is that it won't remain.

[Jim856796]

Has the site been cleared after the Coliseum's death last year? I'm pretty sure nothing in the redevelopment plan has been finalised yet.

[Raintree21]

Has the site been cleared after the Coliseum's death last year? I'm pretty sure nothing in the redevelopment plan has been finalised yet.

When I flew over it about 2 weeks ago, it was just red clay with some parking lot still there.

[Andyc545]

Renderings!:

[New Name]

Birkdale.

[Raintree21]

Birkdale.

Are you saying it looks like Birkdale? I don't think it really matters. There can only be so many original designs before things start repeating themselves. All that matters is that it is a walkable community which it is supposed to be.

[dubone]

I had a hunch that this project might go with cheaper materials given that they were putting so much on the land, and it might end up with a very faux urban look. But this is a very pleasant surprise. Granted, there is a lot of repetitiveness in the design, the materials appear to be higher quality with all the masonry, and it really seems to join with the urban siteplan to make a surprisingly high quality project overall. Of course, it all hinges on how it is implemented at this point, but the renderings and plans all are quite impressive to me.

[Spartan]

This project is fundamentally different from Birkdale, and IMO the look is more appealing (but I'm not a fan of stucco either). The key difference is that this project is urban infill, rather than greenfield development. I'm not sure if this is being sold as "new urban" development, but it sure has a lot of characteristics of that style.

That building at the end of the street needs some kind of spire or decorative feature to create a better focal point for the terminal vista.

[monsoon]

This project is fundamentally different from Birkdale.....The key difference is that this project is urban infill, rather than greenfield development......

Are you familiar with this location? There isn't any difference in building over a previous single use property The Charlotte Coliseum, this development, over another single use development, a defunct dairy farm, Birkdale. Neither site could be considered urban or greenfield and any negative aspects of Birkdale would apply to this development too.

[AuLukey]

Well Birkdale covered up what mostly was green acreage while this development is covering up seas of asphalt and the monstrous footprint of a steel and concrete building. At least we're covering up something that wasn't at least bad for the environment whereas the dairy farm wasn't exactly causing urban heat (the correct term currently escapes me) issues.

I overall believe this is much better than what was there before by any standard. However, I really do not like the design. It's too cookie cutter for my taste. But beggars can't be choosers.

[monsoon]

Well Birkdale covered up what mostly was green acreage ....

It was a farm that dealt with the production of cattle based products. Are you familiar with all of the details of what this involves? I think if asked, most people would choose not to live near such a place. The Coliseum area is a vast nothingness of green space interspersed with mostly huge glass boxes that hold endless office cubes, parking lots and situated where they can only be reached by the automobile.

I am not cheerleading for Birkdale, but to dismiss it as not being a worthy comparison because it was built on top of a cowfarm instead of a Coliseum the city was forced to sell as payola to the NBA, isn't looking at this development in an objective manner. This is yet another example of the city of Charlotte not following through with it's promises to restrict development to the transit corridors, but as usual the rhetoric does not match the interests of the center city. A center city that is happy to let it happen because they have to pay for the bobcats arena.

[atlrvr]

I don't see the point in adding this much density to an area that is vastly underserved by transit. The best thing about it is the direct street connection betwen Tyvola and Billy Graham Pkwy.

[Spartan]

^I agree, but they have transit service that connects to the Lynx line on Tyvola. It would not be a stretch to think that CATS would enhance the service to and within the site. With gas prices the way they are it could very well happen.

Are you familiar with this location? There isn't any difference in building over a previous single use property The Charlotte Coliseum, this development, over another single use development, a defunct dairy farm, Birkdale. Neither site could be considered urban or greenfield and any negative aspects of Birkdale would apply to this development too.

I am quite familiar with this site. I agree that the Coliseum was not "urban" by any stretch of the word. It was very much suburban, auto-oriented in design developed 20 or 25 years ago, presumably from what was a greenfield site. However, I do not consider a farm of any sort to be "developed." The City Park development is fundamentally different from Birkdale because it will require much less public investment because the transportation infrastructure is already in place to handle the traffic patterns that this project will generate and improve connectivity around the site for all modes of transportation. Its taking crappy development and making it better. Birkdale started a new development process and is setting up the land around it for good development practices in the future.

[New Name]

In "shrinking" cities of the Rustbelt (Youngstown, OH etc.) when an out-of-use urban lot is abandoned, they have begun a process to let the "rural" tendencies reclaim the lot. I'm not saying we should have thought of that for the former Coliseum site, but that there ARE other options than to put one urban bandaid over another. FWIW.

[monsoon]

..I agree that the Coliseum was not "urban" by any stretch of the word. It was very much suburban, auto-oriented in design developed 20 or 25 years ago, presumably from what was a greenfield site. However, I do not consider a farm of any sort to be "developed." .....

You used the world urban to describe this area. Actually the Coliseum was placed where it was due to concerns about traffic for events. If you don't consider a farm to be "developed" then I suggest you visit a few of the ones that surround Charlotte, especially the poultry ones. You will come away educated on what modern animal based faming means these days. It's dirty nasty business and ranks up there with some of the worst industrial sites.

Birkdale Village (not Birkdale) was placed in the middle of an area that was already completely developed out. It was placed on land that had become economically unviable due to it's proximity to the lake and the only other option for it would be to let it return back to it's natural state. This option couldn't happen for the same reason that it isn't happening at the coliseum. Too much money lost in the hands of private developers. Subsequent city councils in Huntersville said they would not approve such a development again, but the more "conservative" government elected in the last year or so, has back tracked from that as there is now more bad development going up at Exit 25. In both cases, the Coliseum development and Birkdale Village, the only effective means of transport is by automobile though Birkdale is within walking distance of the Northcross express bus station. The Coliseum area has no effective connections to CATS as it can easily take over 20 minutes to get from this area over to the closest Lynx station and then you might quite a long wait for a train. Nobody is going to do this except by car.

[Raintree21]

The Coliseum area has no effective connections to CATS as it can easily take over 20 minutes to get from this area over to the closest Lynx station and then you might quite a long wait for a train. Nobody is going to do this except by car.

It's only 2.5 miles from Paul Buck Blvd where the coliseum site is to Tyvola and South. Without traffic, that takes about 5 minutes and during rush hour, no more than 10 minutes. That's not that bad of a ride. CATS picks up almost in front of the complex every 30 minutes and it lists only a 6-7 minute ride to the Lynx station.

Edited July 8, 2008 by Raintree21

[Spartan]

I'm actually very familiar with what farms of all sorts in the Carolina piedmont are like. I am from Spartanburg, a much more rural place than anything in this county. The fact of the matter is that Huntersville created development where there was none, and this is redeveloping a developed site. I view this as a separate issue from the environmental hazards of mass food production (and I completely agree that they are a major problem- but that is a separate topic IMO)

Also, CATS has two routes, the 18 and the 60, that serve the Coliseum area. The 18 is an express route and the 60 connects to Tyvola Station. According to the Route 60 Map it takes about 6 minutes to get to the station from Yorkmont Rd.

[monsoon]

It's only 2.5 miles from Paul Buck Blvd where the coliseum site is to Tyvola and South. Without traffic, that takes about 5 minutes and during rush hour

Since when is there no traffic at South & Tyvola? 2 am in the morning? It's taken me 10 minutes just to get from I-77 to the Lynx station due to the congestion on Tyvola by the Costco strip mall.

The fact of the matter is that Huntersville created development where there was none, and this is redeveloping a developed site. ...

And a dairy production center is a developed area too. I don't see the difference. In fact I don't understand how you can say there are "key differences" between this development and Birkdale village. To me they are exactly the same item, created in the same kind of area, with the same type of issues.

[norm21499]

I am sure that the key differences between a dairy farm and birkdale village are the uses, and the traffic. I would imagine that a dairy farm does not produce as much traffic as birkdale village does. correct me if I am wrong though. I do agree that a dairy farm is a type of development, its just a different type of development that birkdale village. they both take up space, and thats about the most similarities that each one has to one another. now please let us get off the subject of dairy farms, we are talking about the coliseum development site.

now about taking transit to the future development.....whether you get stuck in traffic riding a bus or riding a car.....the fact of the matter is, your butt is still stuck in traffic. although i am sure that most people will still drive to this development, unless gas goes up to $6 a gallon overnight.

Edited July 8, 2008 by norm21499

[monsoon]

^The comparison wasn't between Birkdale Village vs Dairy Farm. It was a comparison of dairy farm vs the old coliseum.

I agree that BV is a horrible generator of traffic in a small area and this Coliseum development will have the same issue.

[cooperdawg]

^The comparison wasn't between Birkdale Village vs Dairy Farm. It was a comparison of dairy farm vs the old coliseum.

I agree that BV is a horrible generator of traffic in a small area and this Coliseum development will have the same issue.

With Birkdale Village though, all traffic must exit and enter via Sam Furr Road. In fact, almost all residents of Birkdale Village are funnelled out the Birkdale Commons Parkway exit. With City Park, you'll have multiple means of ingress/egress to access the site via the realigned Yorkmont Road in both directions, a connection to Billy Graham Parkway, and Tyvola Road with multiple access points. That's five or six connections to major thoroughfares versus funnelling the entire development out one exit.