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Is it time to reintroduce universal healthcare?


snoogit

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My uncle has no insurance and was sent home without treatment when he had a life-threatening pnemuenia. He went to the social services building in town, they told him to goto the hospital and get treated, and that the social worker would help him get his bill paid for through state programs afterward. He had it taken care of by a state program that will pay your medical bills up to three months after you accrue them if you qualify. SOunds like some big government "i want to control your life" scam, doesn't it?

It may not be emergency in that he wasn't gushing blood all over or that his wind pipe wasn't closing up, but it was still life threatening, which in my mind, constitutes an emergency.

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A free market health care system doesn't exist and never has. A free market economy hasn't existed in the US either. Hong Kong has (had?) a free market, I'm not sure about their health care system.

BUT there are segments of the US health care system that operate on the free market, and they are quite a different scene from general health care. Prices are dropping, satisfaction is rising, all with an increase in demand.

Like laser eye surgery. It's a technologically intensive operation and it has gone down in price by a significant ammount. Laser eye surgery is one of the health care operations that is sold on the free market with "price advertising, competition and consumer driven purchases". There's no medicaid or medicare involved and there's little regulation.

Granted this is one instance, but the case is the also the same with cosmetic surgery.

There are also health care movements like SimpleCare that involve paying the doctor cash on the spot. Because of reduction in paperwork and bureaucratic nonsense, the price falls by 30-50%! (I'd sign up for it but it not in my area, it's not very big yet)

Regulation kills every industry. It makes business slow and it hurts the consumer in the end with high prices. We wouldn't be complaining about this issue if health care wasn't expensive, right? It's expensive because government makes it so. Health Insurance is very expensive partly because every insurance shop has to deal with a ton of different regulations and paperwork for every state.

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Carried to the extreme, fewer regulations would open the door to quackery and cure-all elixirs competing on the same level as legitimate medical science.

I propose dismantling the FDA, Medi*, and removing all regulations. Health care decisions should rest only between the doctor and the patient. Not the quacks at the FDA and the bureaucrats. Too many lifesaving drugs are stopped before production because of safe-job-performance-adverse bureaucrats. The FDA is a menace. Oh and costs would plummet. Why? Doctors would be freed to important work while routine tasks could be done by people trained to do only that (a physical doesn't require a doctor) and there would be little paperwork. It would be a simple world, there would be no fear of the process, because there would be no process.

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One last note if you will. In the UK, with a population of about 60 million, the number of people waiting for admission to the hospitals for surgery is more than 1 million. 2 million waiting for an outpatient appointment. In Canada, a country of 33 million, has 1,094,264 waiting for some medical procedure or other.

Among these people are probably some productive individuals. Contrast that to the US, where the productive get care.

I challenge you to show me a socalist state that works as a model of efficency, as efficient as say, GE. ;)

Here's one more number "86.1 percent of those uninsured for a year consider their health to be "good" to "excellent,""

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Laser surgery is considered a voluntary, cosmeting procedure. as such it is not covered by the vast majority of insurance providers. They have little choice but to make such procedures relatively affordable, or nobody would opt for it. The proce of laser surgery has plummetted because it is a new technology that is becoming more widespread, not because of the free market per se.

Regulation kills every industry. It makes business slow and it hurts the consumer in the end with high prices. We wouldn't be complaining about this issue if health care wasn't expensive, right? It's expensive because government makes it so. Health Insurance is very expensive partly because every insurance shop has to deal with a ton of different regulations and paperwork for every state.
Then why is medical care so much more affordable in countries with fully socialised healthcare?

Not only are they more affordable, but socialized systems are generally more efficient than our own healthcare system. You point out numbers for the UK and Canada, but how many people in this country are waiting for treatment. How many are not getting treatment at all because it is out of their reach?

Here's one more number "86.1 percent of those uninsured for a year consider their health to be "good" to "excellent,""

That's because a disproportionate number of the uninsured are young. Thay may be healthy, but they are one car accident away from financial ruin.

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Now you propose dismantling the FDA... Do you remember why the FDA was founded in the first place? Have you ever read the Jungle by Upton Sinclair? As much as rat poop adds flavor to a good bone sausage, I'd rather have the FDA.

I think you're totally out of whack on the issues, Moonshield. To propose the dismantling of major regulatory departments to fit your "free-market" ideals is absolutely ridiculous, because what happens immediately is that monopolies are created and the prices shoot up and quality goes down. Microsoft is a perfect example.

I've said it plenty of times, Moonshield: Minnesota has the most socialized medicine in the country with numerous state programs to help people afford health care. We have the lowest uninsured rate, the highest life expectancy, the 2nd highest quality of life in general. I can gaurantee you that those numbers were NOT achieved by opening the market more and allowing the private sector to do its "wonders". We also have high quality health care: The Mayo Clinic being the best example, along with the University of Minnesota being a great institution for medical care. The U of M certainly isn't a private institution.

And one more thing: I am in college right now. About half of my friends are pre-med, pre-dental, or are looking to go into other various medical professions. If you ask any of them why they want to do it, NONE of them will say "Oh, the money." If you are chasing money, you go into business or law. Instead they say things like "Oh, I've wanted to do this since I was little" or, oh my God "I want to help people."

But we're just young and naive without your experience, so I'll learn my place and keep quiet.

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Laser surgery is considered a voluntary, cosmeting procedure. as such it is not covered by the vast majority of insurance providers. They have little choice but to make such procedures relatively affordable, or nobody would opt for it. The proce of laser surgery has plummetted because it is a new technology that is becoming more widespread, not because of the free market per se.

That's exactly what the free market is! There is price competition, and choice, so it becomes cheaper.

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I'm done. Other people can explain my position better than me and they have more of a voice than I do. I've made several points that have gone ignored, maybe that means they were decent point ;).

As for Minnesota, Minnesota isn't the best state for comparing other states to, Minnesota is a racially homogeneous state, it is 90% white. Comparing the white population of Minnesota to most any other state will display similar (or sometimes better for the other states) results. The racial disparities exist in Minnesota just as they do in the South, but there are not enough minorities to bring down the scores. It's sad, I don't like to go there, but it's statistically true.

Bye.

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That's exactly what the free market is! There is price competition, and choice, so it becomes cheaper.

Then I'll ask again why our system, which is the closest to a free market of all industrialized nations, is by far the most expensive to the patient.

As for Minnesota, Minnesota isn't the best state for comparing other states to, Minnesota is a racially homogeneous state, it is 90% white. Comparing the white population of Minnesota to most any other state will display similar (or sometimes better for the other states) results. The racial disparities exist in Minnesota just as they do in the South, but there are not enough minorities to bring down the scores. It's sad, I don't like to go there, but it's statistically true.

Not all poor people are racial minorities, and Minnesota is far from the wealthiest state in the nation.

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