100 Oaks Mall being sold

[LA_TN]

Not to be a downer but....This area had SUCH a bad reputation in so many areas, and that'll be a hard thing to fix. I know that the adjoining movie theatre is considered unsafe by everyone that I know, so redevelopment into something that isn't a mall might be tough. The only thing that could save this thing in my opinion would to be to attract a really big name to draw people in....like Crate and Barrell, otherwise I doubt it would draw people in from other areas.

Interesting is that Steve and Barry's comes to HHM and nobody cares and continue to cite gang violence and car theft as the reasons HHM is unsafe and they will drive to the Galleria. But add IKEA or Nordstorm's to 100 Oaks and add a parking garage and you'd have a winner. Shoppers love a parking garage...

NT/others, point taken on Gulch vs. 100 Oaks area, but the gulch does not have a steady stream of truck traffic. Other than that, good example. Sometimes you wonder if 100 Oaks was built on the wrong side of I-65 as others have noted...

[jcoop]

I will say that this area has a ton of potential because all through high school my friends and I would frequent the surrounding places such as Baja Burrito, Pla-Mor Lanes, and even the movie theater...but we would never set foot in the "mall" there. I hope something can be made of the area to try and revitalize it because as I said already, there are plenty of things surrounding it that draw people (especially younger people) in the area already.

[smeagolsfree]

Article from the Tennessean today. Looks as if they may blow life into the dead man , I mean mall, again. Looks as if the upper floors may be turned into office space. Will it work????

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar.../609210380/1003

[dfwtiger]

Article from the Tennessean today. Looks as if they may blow life into the dead man , I mean mall, again. Looks as if the upper floors may be turned into office space. Will it work????

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar.../609210380/1003

Tear it down and start over. It was a mall...then it was going to be the new city hall for metro...then it was dead...then it was an outlet center...now its office upstairs...PLEASEEEEE! This is an amazing location...however, everyone continues to use the old 1967 model. Tear it down and create a mixed use development...mid rise residnetial and office....with shopping.

[BnaBreaker]

Tear it down and start over. It was a mall...then it was going to be the new city hall for metro...then it was dead...then it was an outlet center...now its office upstairs...PLEASEEEEE! This is an amazing location...however, everyone continues to use the old 1967 model. Tear it down and create a mixed use development...mid rise residnetial and office....with shopping.

Obviously, I completely agree. I still fail to understand the line of logic that says 'keep it the way it has always been'. Why? Clearly that hasn't worked out. It is past time for a new approach. I also don't understand the line of logic that says 'turn it into a lifestyle center, that'll get people coming!' It's the location and the connectivity that make people not come to that location. What will knocking the roof off of it and turning it into a fake suburban-style shell of a real neighborhood do for it? If you're going to go that far, just turn it into an actually meat and potatoes neighborhood!

Franktown, sorry I took your words out of context. I understand what you mean now!

[Guest]

Alright for all of those that propose to raze the mall and build a 'true' neighborhood from scratch please elaborate on how it would work, how much you estimate it to cost and the estimated profit for the developer.

Can you cite another troubled mall location where your plan has been implimented? It sounds interesting but how do you make a neighboehood from scratch given that we do not have decades to see a return on investment.

Thanks, good discussion.

[Skyscrapergeek]

Alright for all of those that propose to raze the mall and build a 'true' neighborhood from scratch please elaborate on how it would work, how much you estimate it to cost and the estimated profit for the developer.

Can you cite another troubled mall location where your plan has been implimented? It sounds interesting but how do you make a neighboehood from scratch given that we do not have decades to see a return on investment.

Thanks, good discussion.

Excellent questions nb.

[NewTowner]

Alright for all of those that propose to raze the mall and build a 'true' neighborhood from scratch please elaborate on how it would work, how much you estimate it to cost and the estimated profit for the developer.

Can you cite another troubled mall location where your plan has been implimented? It sounds interesting but how do you make a neighboehood from scratch given that we do not have decades to see a return on investment.

Thanks, good discussion.

Yeah--eggs-cellent questions, NB. Boink!

Ever heard of Chattanooga? It's a city in Tennessee. Do some research on a mall there.

Oh, and here's some obvious swill for you: the profits on building a neighborhood are going to be about the same as the profits from building a neighborhood. You know, neighborhood kind of stuff: houses, offices, retail...the sort of thing you build and sell. Kind of like anywhere. Building residential and commerical units, believe it or not, has had a decent track record as profitable activity in Middle Tennessee. Sounds crazy, I know...but it is solid gold truth.

Check, please!

[Guest]

NT

Man you have really improved with the Batman like sound effects...Boink?!?...that is funny. I do not mean Jay Leno funny but Dennis Miller drunk funny. wooooweeeee

And the way you can turn a phrase like 'eggs-cellent' is pure genius we are all so lucky to have your input (genuflect)

[fieldmarshaldj]

^C'mon, boys, play nice.

[rocky top buzz]

If I'm not mistaken, isn't Harding Mall in Nashville an example of a Mall that went so far down that they tore it down? This is certainly one scenario where a Wal-Mart will improve the neighboorhood.

oh, and you can't build 100 Oaks on the other side of I-65 because there are a ton of churches over there.

[Guest]

Thanks to all that is NT I was able to read his tea leaves and find this link which is not on point with my question. The thread specifically stated that a Lifestyle Center was not adequate and that the preferred conversion would is a true neighborhood.

So I will state the question again.

How do you create (overnight) an urban neighborhood from scratch without it being contrived?

How does the local government encourage the transformation and should they?

Will it make money?

[Guest]

RTB

I agree that the Walmart was a huge improvement over Harding Mall. I can not believe how 'down' these malls have to go before drastic changes are proposed.

Bellevue may be next...

[BnaBreaker]

Alright for all of those that propose to raze the mall and build a 'true' neighborhood from scratch please elaborate on how it would work, how much you estimate it to cost and the estimated profit for the developer.

Can you cite another troubled mall location where your plan has been implimented? It sounds interesting but how do you make a neighboehood from scratch given that we do not have decades to see a return on investment.

Thanks, good discussion.

These are good questions. However, i'm not a builder, contracter, or a developer so I have no idea how much anything costs. Sorry, I really don't. I would never pretend to be an expert in that field. However, I think you are making this a little too complicated in your head. Step 1: tear down the mall. Step 2: rework the street grid so it connects to the surrounding neighborhood. Step 3: Get proper infrastructure in there. Step 4: Plan a neighborhood...a regular ole neighborhood, the likes of which you can find all over central nashville, complete with homes, mixed use, multi-family, retail, office, a few bus stops etc.. Step 5: Build it. I'm not proposing anything cutting edge or outrageous...i'm just saying, turn it into a regular neighborhood.

[Guest]

Maybe I am overthinking it BNA but what you and others are proposing is cutting edge...

I can not find where it has ever been done...ever.

What streets are there to connect? East and West Iris? I do not think there are any East and West to connect due to the industrial park and I-65. In my mind what you are left with is an artificial space that is just as isolated as the mall. Would the neighborhood look more like Burton Hills? If so, I can easily picture what that would look like but I do not see it as anything other that a suburban housing model. Maybe it will look like so many of the Franklin developments with 'town centers'. But how will that work as Berry Hill already has a city hall ect... it is not a new place.

But if the goal is to make it look like Hillsboro Village with the surrounding neighborhood than I say great if it can be pulled-off, but there is a danger that all it will be is an artificial oasis without any authenticity. Hillsboro Village took decades to become flavorful to the senses.

So before the developer sees any ROI he will need to complete the following:

Acquire the property estimated to be a ($50 million from the Nashville Post story)

Demolish current infrastructure (say $5 million to demo)

Rebuild infrastructure (sewers, roads, utilities) for a new neighborhood grid (no clue here but a large expense)

Build Housing (pay to build multi-tenant and single-family)

Build retail (pay to build)

Build offices (pay to build)

Then sale/lease it all

[Skyscrapergeek]

Thanks to all that is NT I was able to read his tea leaves and find this link which is not on point with my question. The thread specifically stated that a Lifestyle Center was not adequate and that the preferred conversion would is a true neighborhood.

So I will state the question again.

How do you create (overnight) an urban neighborhood from scratch without it being contrived?

How does the local government encourage the transformation and should they?

Will it make money?

Still an eggs-cellent question. boink-pow-bang-zwak-zoinks!

[NewTowner]

Still an eggs-cellent question. boink-pow-bang-zwak-zoinks!

Pop!

[Richard Lawson]

Article from the Tennessean today. Looks as if they may blow life into the dead man , I mean mall, again. Looks as if the upper floors may be turned into office space. Will it work????

http://www.tennessean.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar.../609210380/1003

Nice to see that The Tennessean can validate my story two days prior. What mine said is that tenants who have been circling include Target, Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Kohl's... SInce I've heard Lowes

[titanhog]

Nice to see that The Tennessean can validate my story two days prior. What mine said is that tenants who have been circling include Target, Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Kohl's... SInce I've heard Lowes

Same 'ol same 'ol for Nashville. I wish there were rumors of Crate & Barrell, Nordstrom, etc.

[Guest]

best buy would be great and target if it was a super target

[QuietMike]

best buy would be great and target if it was a super target

Isn't there a new Target a couple of exits down at OHB? Bring on the Best Buy and Lowes!

[barakat]

Alright for all of those that propose to raze the mall and build a 'true' neighborhood from scratch please elaborate on how it would work, how much you estimate it to cost and the estimated profit for the developer.

Can you cite another troubled mall location where your plan has been implimented? It sounds interesting but how do you make a neighboehood from scratch given that we do not have decades to see a return on investment.

Thanks, good discussion.

What about the Gulch? Granted, it's in an urban location unlike 100 Oaks. It was a vast wasteland, and now it's becoming a premier mixed-use neighborhood. Re: accessibility, the Gulch really isn't that easily accessible to those unfamiliar, but it's in an ideal location. Giving someone directions to City Hall or RuSans isn't that easy if they've never been to the area. It's also hemmed in on one side by an interstate, but there are a few viaducts for connectivity. There are many differences between the Gulch and 100 Oaks sites, but they are also worthy of comparison. Both are/were wastelands, but the Gulch is pretty much a neighborhood built from scratch. Am I missing something?

[barakat]

Might be worth posting this link now. 100 Oaks is featured, with a gallery from last year.

http://deadmalls.com/

[BnaBreaker]

Maybe I am overthinking it BNA but what you and others are proposing is cutting edge...

I can not find where it has ever been done...ever.

What streets are there to connect? East and West Iris? I do not think there are any East and West to connect due to the industrial park and I-65. In my mind what you are left with is an artificial space that is just as isolated as the mall. Would the neighborhood look more like Burton Hills? If so, I can easily picture what that would look like but I do not see it as anything other that a suburban housing model. Maybe it will look like so many of the Franklin developments with 'town centers'. But how will that work as Berry Hill already has a city hall ect... it is not a new place.

But if the goal is to make it look like Hillsboro Village with the surrounding neighborhood than I say great if it can be pulled-off, but there is a danger that all it will be is an artificial oasis without any authenticity. Hillsboro Village took decades to become flavorful to the senses.

So before the developer sees any ROI he will need to complete the following:

Acquire the property estimated to be a ($50 million from the Nashville Post story)

Demolish current infrastructure (say $5 million to demo)

Rebuild infrastructure (sewers, roads, utilities) for a new neighborhood grid (no clue here but a large expense)

Build Housing (pay to build multi-tenant and single-family)

Build retail (pay to build)

Build offices (pay to build)

Then sale/lease it all

[NewTowner]

The intelligent and knowledgable Cdub has made this site known to me:

Transformed Malls

Shopping malls have been turned into neighborhoods before --there is precedent. But perhaps more importantly, land has been turned into neighborhoods before, too...and the site in question is mostly just empty land.

100 Oaks Mall should be mercilessly ripped to shreds and a new mixed-use neighborhood should replace it. It would be a guaranteed success. Berry Hill is already cookin'. Houses and shops could be built and filled with people. It would be a blast.

Lots of places have been designed and built relatively quickly, with beauty among the many happy results. Here is a short list:

Savannah, Philadelphia, Aigues Mortes, Washington D.C., Shahjahanabad, Seaside, and Minas Tirith (The White City of Gondor).

With competency, know-how, some cues from tradition, and a real commitment to quality, Nashville could have a new heart. And who knows? Maybe they could actually squeeze a hundred oaks into the plan.