Charlotte's "NC" attachment

[Neo]

This has been mentioned countless times on the Charlotte UP forum but I ran across something in my last issue of Inc. magazine that really set me on fire. On pae 194 it goes on to list defunct companies from 1985-2005 and a little text to say where they are now. On one company's listing it lists the company's HQ as being "Tulsa" and to the very right is a company who's HQ is listed as "Charlotte, N.C."

For all my might I can't figure out why in the hell you would simply say "Tulsa" and not do the same for Charlotte.

[Tayfromcarolina]

Perhaps there is only one Tulsa. I know for sure there are several Charlotte's, so there might have been need to specify which one.

[krazeeboi]

I do think the uniqueness of the name has something to do with it. Such cities may not be very big, or may be the same size as Charlotte, but Charlotte is still suffering a bit from the "Ch" factor.

But in this case, I know there were quite a few folks wondering which state (or maybe even province) Tulsa is located in.

[Lady Celeste]

When someone says Charlotte, I only think of one place. Are American citizens that geographically illiterate that they must include NC after the city. I mean really, how often have we heard about Charlotte in the news? What planet are people living on that they can't immediately associate Charlotte with....well North Carolina. Charleston is not known for it's abundance of corporate headquarters. When I think Charleston I think historic and glorious architecture and culture...such a wonderful city. The one in West Virginia doesn't even come to mind.

Now I'm going to be geographically illiterate myself and ask...what are the other major Charlottes in the US?

[krazeeboi]

The only other Charlotte that comes to mind is the town in Vermont. Charlottesville, VA also comes to mind and there's a Port Charlotte in Florida.

[adamparish]

R-E-S-P-E-C-T

What was the name of the company? Curious. Is the list on the INC web-site?

[nowensone]

I wonder if in some small part it is due to our football team being from "Carolina" on TV, it seems to be more an educational source than a teacher, atlas or geography book. Just the other day I was watching the Panther's game and one of the announcers said "Carolina" as the place, clearly referring to the location, not the team, on enough occasions it was obvious he had no real concept of the two states of North & South Carolina. That or he was covering for the fact he didn't know which state Charlotte was in. I guess it's like the Dakotas, can anyone here confidently say which one Bismarck is in (without looking it up)?

[Lady Celeste]

The only other Charlotte that comes to mind is the town in Vermont. Charlottesville, VA also comes to mind and there's a Port Charlotte in Florida.

Those aren't major or they also are not simply Charlotte. Surely someone of the business set could know the difference without the NC added.

[monsoon]

.... I guess it's like the Dakotas, can anyone here confidently say which one Bismarck is in (without looking it up)?

Well I could, but I am a geeky urbanist nerd who is into geography. It is interesting to note that Charlotte has the same population as the entire state of ND, but they still have to slap the NC on the backside of Charlotte.

I think Charlotte's issue with this is some of what was said above, the fact that it has done a lot of growing in a very short amount of time (relative to the nation's history), and there really are not many events that thrust the city into the national limelight. And unlike many other places, Charlotte does not dominate the Carolinas like Atlanta does with GA, and Minneapolis does with MN, or is famous for something like Nashville with country music.

[nowensone]

^^ (Lady Celeste) Ideally, though every foreigner I've known and met knew more of our US states than our own citizens, and that is no exageration. And North Carolina specifically (I quizzed them in case they were like mnay people who will nod and pretend knowledge ). And you are right, a business person would have to be quite bad at what they do to not know of the only major "Charlotte", that incidentally is known for business.

[nowensone]

Well I could, but I am a geeky urbanist nerd who is into geography. It is interesting to note that Charlotte has the same population as the entire state of ND, but they still have to slap the NC on the backside of Charlotte. I suppose it will be another generation or so before they get around to referring to the city at a national level without the NC.

Yeah, I was speaking rhetorically, people that use/enjoy this site should know their geography. And true, you can't compare the Dakota's and Carolina's for a long list of reasons. I think more people know that Greensboro is in NC than Charlotte, probably due to the NCAA backetball tourny, and are confused on Charlotte because of the "Carolina" Panthers. The irony that sports is how places are known to the masses..

[AuLukey]

Maybe they should draw a line north of Statesville around to Salisbury, Monroe, Rock Hill and Gastonia and call it Central Carolina or something. Throw the hickory metro in and it would be about the same size of Rhode Island. Maybe then we'd get some attention from the capital, since we'd be the capital.

All in all though, I have to agree with the point that Charlotte is a new American city and has little national history tied into in the US history books. Charlotte was just a small town when the civil war rolled through and unless you're taking economic history, the city's standing as the second largest banking city is hardly table conversation.

The Ch- factor isn't as big as the Char- factor in my opinion. Chicago and Chattanooga don

[nowensone]

Definitely agree with the history point, Charlotte wasn't even the largest city in NC until around 1930 or so. But we are just at a point where many cities were 20 to 30 years ago, and others a century ago. It is annoying, but in 50 years this will be an older, more broken in, and certainly larger place, and surely known for a few things. Sports? International Furniture Market? Skyscrapers? Hightech? The scuppernong? Banking certainly isn't ever going to capture the nation's imagination.

I think the Charlotte name is a great one, with a really neat history (the county along with it), it just hasn't quite matured yet. When it does it will be a name you don't forget or confuse. The Queen City is an emotionally/psychologically vivid nickname, as is the Hornet's Nest, and the state Charlotte is wrapped in is going to help in it's ascendance as it rises itself. In 50 years we will be a prominent place in the megalopolis that will then stretch from Altanta to Boston (maybe even Birmimgham to Boston). People I have met in my travels have known more about NC and Charlotte than I ever expected them to.

[JerseyBoy]

People I have met in my travels have known more about NC and Charlotte than I ever expected them to.

Hah, everywhere I have been in the US and somebody asks me," So where are you from?," I tell them North Carolina they most always reply," Oh I have family that lives in Raleigh/Charlotte." Alot of people I have talked to in New York, Miami, Chicago, and Atlanta all knew about Charlotte and thought it was a rather clean for a city of its size. They always say how they love North Carolina. Though the only place where people had trouble identifing Charlotte was in LA.

[krazeeboi]

I feel the worst for the cities Charleston as they don't stand a chance of ever shedding their state's initials.

You're right, but most people think of SC's Charleston first. Charleston, WV steals a bit of the show though being that it is a state capital.

[ScottCLT]

Though I agree Charlotte shouldn't have the "NC" attached to it when mentioned, I do have to say that on the west coast, if I say I'm from just "Charlotte," people often respond with "Oh...South Carolina, right?"

It's gotten better in the last year or so. I still don't usually add the "NC," but I don't think I've gotten that comment in a while. I was on a plane beside a girl several weeks ago talking on her cell phone when we landed. She was obviously just connecting and saying "I'm stuck in...where is this? Charlotte? I'm in some place called Charlotte, wherever that is" to whoever she was talking to on the phone.

So, there's good and bad with the "NC" attached to it. Do I think it's needed? No. But would I rather someone from across the country have no clue where it is instead of knowing it is in NC? No to that, as well.

[Spartan]

I think its also important to ask it the other way around... what make Tulsa so unique that it does have the state attached?

I think it should be equal for all cities of simialr size. Its not just a name thing though. I mean, there is only one Spartanburg, but you always see SC attached to it. There is only one Winston-Salem, but you always see NC attached to that.

Really what it comes down to is that the geographically challenged think that everyone has the same perception as them. They don't think that I have any idea where decent sized cities are if they don't either. Tulsa must have been something obvious to the writer there, but Charlotte was not for whatever reason.

[peaceloveunderstanding]

Well, many fourmers have NC after Charlotte under their avatars.

[AuLukey]

You're right, but most people think of SC's Charleston first. Charleston, WV steals a bit of the show though being that it is a state capital.

I agree, although that is strongly depending on geography. People up north, especially around the great lakes probably think WV while anybody in the south will associate it with SC.

I would like to alter my earlier statement too, instead of calling it Central Carolina, how bout just Carolina? (ie WV/VA) It could work. I mean, look back in history, the state of Franklin was almost pulled off in the 1780's in the NC App mountain region, before tennessee existed. Why not pull a 21st century version? Charlotte, CL anybody?

[MR-2]

and Minneapolis does with MN

St. Paul is also big, and the state capital. Since the two share the same metro area, I guess it's fair to say the 'twin cities' in general dominate the state.

I think part of Charlotte's problem with identity is that the state itself has little identity. Powered flight, tobacco, maybe some college basketball, and Jesse Helms are the cumulative sum of what most of the country knows about the state. Charlotte, by association, is a nebulous entity.

[krazeeboi]

I would like to alter my earlier statement too, instead of calling it Central Carolina, how bout just Carolina? (ie WV/VA) It could work.

If any region of the Carolinas had rights to that name upon secession, I would think it would only be the South Carolina Lowcountry, particularly the Charleston area, since that is where the colony of Carolina was established. Furthermore, neither of the schools that go by "Carolina" (UNC or USC) would be located in this new state, and that would certainly cause some confusion.

[Neo]

Well, many fourmers have NC after Charlotte under their avatars.

As do I, but if I lived in Chicago I would put Chicago, IL as I like the continuity of that. The problem I have is mixing and matching Tulsa with Charlotte, NC. One or the other, but not both IMO.

[UptownGrrl]

It usually comes down to Associated Press style guidelines, which evolved in earlier newspaper history. There is a defined list of dateline cities that can appear without a state. From the AP Stylebook, they quote "The norms that influenced the selection were the population of the city, the population of its metropolitan region, the frequency of the city's appearance in the news, the uniqueness of its name, and experience that has shown the name to be almost synonymous with the state or nation where it is located." An exception to including further identification is within the body of a story if its in the same state or nation as the dateline city.

The AP style website has an 'ask the editor' feature - maybe they can be persuaded to reevaluate their dateline list?

But, at any rate, Tulsa is not on that list - so whoever wrote that article either made an error, or their publication follows different guidelines than AP Style.

[Pillsbury]

Hah, everywhere I have been in the US and somebody asks me," So where are you from?," I tell them North Carolina they most always reply," Oh I have family that lives in Raleigh/Charlotte." Alot of people I have talked to in New York, Miami, Chicago, and Atlanta all knew about Charlotte and thought it was a rather clean for a city of its size. They always say how they love North Carolina. Though the only place where people had trouble identifing Charlotte was in LA.

Yeah, I had cousins who moved to LA for the Summer last year. The only people who had heard of Augusta were golf fans. Everyone else assumed she was from Atlanta or Texas---one of those two for some reason, no where else in the South existed. Same with this poor lady from South Carolina, who would actually get angry at people who insisted she was from Atlanta. She would explain, "I'm from Columbia, South Carolina." And then somebody would reply, "Yeah, but how far is it from Atlanta?" Having said that, I can't understand how someone has never heard of Charlotte. It's always been one of the two big cities along with Atlanta for me. Of course, I'm only 2 hours away so I guess I'm biased.

[nowensone]

^I guess that's fair, your average person from the southeast knows little about California (or the west coast for that matter), and even more are pretty sure they wouldn't like it.