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Proposed: Echo Harbour

Downtowner

By Downtowner
in Richmond

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Cadeho City

Cadeho

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EchoHarbor.jpg

Courtesy of Google

EchoHarbormapandplan.jpg

Google map and Tommy's pic superimposed

DSCF6290.jpg

It's about 9 stories.

By the way, I like the curves, but who's the architect, Mike Brady? This is pure 1960s chic at its finest! We shouldn't build everything in brick either, but it shouldn't look like a sore thumb. Of course though, things hardly look like they do on paper, and things shouldn't be final yet. Now if it were a mixture of modern (21st Century) and old like Rocketts, it'd work.

I love the Excelsior... we can round off its edges and make a great combination of ideas. By the way, Echo Harbour also has a flat roof.

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burt Megalopolis

burt

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Thanks for the illustration, Cam. Yeah, NBC had said the silos are about a 9 story equivalent of 9 stories of Echo Harbour. So basically, stacking the silos would give a good impression of the amount of site blocked.

Huh, Tommy? If they're 150 feet high then they are the tallest 9-story structure I've ever seen. Maybe someone has misinformed me about the 150' to 160' height, but looking at the picture above, I don't think so. Note the two-story structure at their base.

Let's see - 9 into 150 equals 16 foot ceilings (if the silos had any). Assuming floors at EH would have 9 foot ceilings and allowing for maybe 15' height on the first level, that would total 168'. EH will be on higher ground, so, for argument sake, add another 15 feet. Allowing for, let's say, a one foot floor thickness the towers still come in at under 200.

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rdaudani Crossroads

rdaudani

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The folks at Lehigh say the silos are 12 stories tall.

According to the developer, George Ross and the Architects at Baskervill, the towers would be 18 stories high and 275 feet apart. The max height would be 206' which is why they need a special use permit. RF-2 only allows 150'. They'd be tiered so they would step down to 14 stories, then 10 stories.

There'd be 600 parking spaces in the ground level garage and they want the City to widen Dock Street.

They say phase I enviornmental study is complete. They're scheduled to present to the Church Hill Association next Thursday, Oct. 5, I believe.

Ray

"Long time lurker"

Huh, Tommy? If they're 150 feet high then they are the tallest 9-story structure I've ever seen. Maybe someone has misinformed me about the 150' to 160' height, but looking at the picture above, I don't think so. Note the two-story structure at their base.

Let's see - 9 into 150 equals 16 foot ceilings (if the silos had any). Assuming floors at EH would have 9 foot ceilings and allowing for maybe 15' height on the first level, that would total 168'. EH will be on higher ground, so, for argument sake, add another 15 feet. Allowing for, let's say, a one foot floor thickness the towers still come in at under 200.

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burt Megalopolis

burt

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Hi, rdaudani, and glad you're venturing forth from the lurker's corner. Welcome.

PTaylor over at RCW has said that he doesn't think the western tower will block any important view but, like most of us, he has concern about the eastern high rise. And you have to respect PT for his analyses; he's pretty sharp. However, we know that it will not block sight of the famous "Richmond" bend in the river. Even ugly Lehigh doesn't do that. As I've said earlier, the worst sight blockage will probably be the slave dock across the James and that would be lamentable. But we're not even sure of that.

rdaudani, in re-reading your post I note that the Baskerville design would tier down from 18 to 14 to 10 stories. But that configuration isn't in the renderings above. Could it be we are looking at something that is out-dated - or possibly, UP-dated?

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Cadeho City

Cadeho

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Welcome Ray!

Maybe it won't be so bad, although I still like the river view, not just the bend. You can also see Libby Hill from the park across the river... I think I have dusk pics from there, I'll need to go back during the midday hours. Actually I had sketched up my own version, maybe this weekend I'll try to do something with it...

Oh yes, I know, I couldn't take the boredom of my last 25 minutes...

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TBurban Town

TBurban

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Huh, Tommy? If they're 150 feet high then they are the tallest 9-story structure I've ever seen. Maybe someone has misinformed me about the 150' to 160' height, but looking at the picture above, I don't think so. Note the two-story structure at their base.

Let's see - 9 into 150 equals 16 foot ceilings (if the silos had any). Assuming floors at EH would have 9 foot ceilings and allowing for maybe 15' height on the first level, that would total 168'. EH will be on higher ground, so, for argument sake, add another 15 feet. Allowing for, let's say, a one foot floor thickness the towers still come in at under 200.

Just keepin' ya on your toes ;) Welcome to the forum, Ray!

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rdaudani Crossroads

rdaudani

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Nice to be here!

I agree with you, Cadeho. The developers say their buildings will be far enough to the West not to disturb the historic view. They also say that because they're 275 feet apart, you can see between them.

But, if you actually go up to the park and look down you can clearly see the Lehigh Silos, so I assume you would also see the condos 6 stories taller and right next to them. It may not block the bend, but it will block the river.

The developers didn't want to share the Dock Street elevation but referred to the tiered concept (10, 14, 18 stories) repeatedly as a way to keep height down. The elevation is part of their zoning application, but I dunno if that's outdated. We'll have to wait and see.

I can tell you that the folks on the hill aren't happy. The modern design probably doesn't help win over any "traditionalists."

I wonder what the Mayor thinks? He seems to be the key to any development deal.

RAY

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burt Megalopolis

burt

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Yea, Ray, I think you're right. This thing is in for the fight of the Century among traditionalists. On the other hand, Mr. Wilder tried to sneak into the city budget plans for a "park" and redevelopment on the former Jerry Cable property.

We'll see, but as the "senior" senior on this forum, I suspect I'll be long gone by the time dust settles. :)

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burt Megalopolis

burt

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Sure, Ray. The Buxton line which operated an overnight steamer between Richmond and Norfolk until the 1940's left from its wharf which would have been almost directly where Echo Harbour will be. Ocean going freighters docked between Echo and where the Eagle docks now.

There was a boat club on Mayo's Island.

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eandslee City

eandslee

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Our friend Eddie posted this to my thread at another board about the James River Depth.

http://mapserver.maptech.com/api/GetImage....l_server_ip=120

API-186065.jpg

From maptech.com / www.nauticalcharts.gov

Can anyone read the depths?

I can read the depths, but do we take them for what they are and say, 5 feet, 6 feet, etc. or do we add a 1 in front making it 15 feet, 16 feet, etc. 5 and 6 feets sounds too shallow for that area to me, but I could be wrong. Maybe we'll need more expertise on the subject to know for sure.

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j_c Crossroads

j_c

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I can read the depths, but do we take them for what they are and say, 5 feet, 6 feet, etc. or do we add a 1 in front making it 15 feet, 16 feet, etc. 5 and 6 feets sounds too shallow for that area to me, but I could be wrong. Maybe we'll need more expertise on the subject to know for sure.

Ok. This is my first post here and I'll provide a little expertise in reading this chart. I came over from RCW and am interested in this development since I live in the area and look out over the property daily when I walk my dog.

The soundings are all in feet relative to the the Mean Lower Low Water (MLLW) tidal datum of the chart. All soundings that you see are true; there is never a truncation of a digit; if you see a 5 it's a 5 and not a 15. Take a look at the area in white, it's the ship channel and if you notice their aren't very many soundings in the channel. That's because the ship channel has one controlling depth for the several sections of the channel. For the area shown the controlling depth is 9.3 feet. This information is published elsewhere on the chart and you can barely see the end of that note on the chart that Cadeho and Eddie posted. The note says "see tabulation" which is just a table posted in the comments section of the chart that lists the controlling depths for the channels on the chart. This chart (12252) list the following information in the tabulation area for this area

Thence to the Locks 9.3 ft, Channel width 200 ft, date of survey 10-04 with a note that "Depth reported only goes to 37-31-20.2N 77-25-06.4W. Depths diminish quickly from 37-31-20.2N 77-25-06.4W to the Locks.

The coordinates in the note are just north of Gilies Creek and explains why there are some shoal soundings (the 2, 4, and 6) within the ship channel. Any smart developer planning to build a marina in this area will need to do some good survey work to determine what type of boating community the marina will be able to support and whether parts of the river will need to be dredged to provide proper vessel clearance.

I hope this helps.

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wrldcoupe4 Metropolitan Area

wrldcoupe4

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Thanks for your insight j_c... that helps those of us that aren't so familiar with that kind of stuff.

What are your thoughts on the proposed development? I like the idea of it, but I'm not so sure about the height. However, I think it affects you personally more than the rest of us. I assume most Church Hill residents aren't a fan of the project.

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