Downtown Raleigh's Future

[Euphorius]

PNC Plaza is a lot better than the Mariott. I just don't like how the tower looks.

 

There is a blurb in this article about $6 million in improvements to the Mariott that is supposed to happen this summer. http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/01/29/3575113/real-deals-will-new-marriott-in.html

[DPK]

Exactly! That mindset is what has left us with abominations like PNC Plaza and City Center Mariott. City council was so scared that the developers would run away if they demanded better architecture, and now we are stuck with those ugly buildings. They did defeat the humpback top on PNC Plaza, but what we got instead is a dunce cap. 

 

Eh... I think calling PNC Plaza an abomination is reaching a bit.  It's actually a pretty unique building on our skyline.  I like it.

PNC Plaza is a lot better than the Mariott. I just don't like how the tower looks.

 

There is a blurb in this article about $6 million in improvements to the Mariott that is supposed to happen this summer. http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/01/29/3575113/real-deals-will-new-marriott-in.html

 

Would be nice if that $6 million went toward making the west side of the Marriot more inviting to the pedestrian.

This new hotel looks similarly suburban. It's not great but it's not as bad as the Marriott. If the beige stucco in the render were replaced with red brick it would be a good looking building actually. Maybe they could be coaxed into doing that... perhaps it's too late though.

 

Brick would improve it a lot actually.  That and hacking off that swoopy derp at the top.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Why can't someone in Raleigh conceive of towers with domes, gothic spires, or angular slants? Stop with the boxes.

[Euphorius]

I lump PNC Plaza in with the clunky, clumsy looking box buildings. Abomination may have been too strong of a word, but I still think it's ugly. The ground level is really nice, but once it gets to the first stepback, it's all over. It's hideous from there on up. To me, the only nice thing about the tower is the color of the glass.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Euphorius

[Jones_]

We just don't have the tenants that will pay the additional price that goes with the cost of building such buildings. Progress Energy was the only non-bank game in town when they built PE II in 2002/3 and did a decent job but nothing like the Duke Energy headquarters in Charlotte. BB&T and First Union were only building regional offices and did decent for 1989. RBC wasn't strong enough to sink much in their building. Red Hat, Capital Bank...they don't need crazy amounts of space. Frustrating lack of good new architecture, but easy enough to understand when you consider the landscape. And again, it's not MY mentality. If we had Bank of America, Duke Energy, Lenovo and SAS all in our downtown, we'd have stuff representative of those companies desires to be noticed. SECU was able to go crazy because A) they aren't paying the rent since they built it, B) this IS their HQ, and C)they really don't have investors (just us members) to pay so they can sink all those safe loan earnings into whatever they feel like. 

[Spatula]

Why can't someone in Raleigh conceive of towers with domes, gothic spires, or angular slants? Stop with the boxes.

For me it is not the overall shape of the tower but the materials and details that go into it. The recently built 1 Bank of America center in Charlotte is my favorite tower in that city and it's nothing more than a green glass box, but the interplay of architectural elements makes it a really pleasing building to look at. I'd love to see something like that in Raleigh.

[Euphorius]

Not really sure where to put this, but it's noteworthy. Mitchell Silver will be leaving to oversee NYC Parks and Rec.http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/21/nyregion/mitchell-silver-north-carolina-planner-named-to-head-nyc-parks-dept.html?_r=0

[CityOfOaksNative]

Dagnabbit!! HUGE HUGE HUGE loss for Raleigh.  Few people have been as impactful to this city in the past decade as Mr. Silver.  Was really hoping we could hold on to him awhile longer as we push through a new chapter in development and growth (UDO). Buuuut...congratulations to him and NYC.

[Gard]

TBJ has an article out today on how it is becoming hip for businesses to locate in downtown Raleigh.  I hope this continues the trend of increasing density downtown and helps planned projects get off the ground quicker, in addition to spurring new projects. 

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/blog/2014/03/skyline-buildings-gaining-favor-with-raleigh.html

[DanRNC]

Its good the folks in Raleigh have finally realized this. Now they need to finally enter the 21st Century with transportation. Slowly but surely getting there.

[RALNATIVE]

The need and desire for more class A office space in the CBD will ultimately drive the heights of future buildings to be built downtown. This is why Raleigh leaders should not be so quick to give developers a free pass to build anything that they wish in the CBD based on current trends.

 

Now is the time for them to start imposing stricter controls over building designs and heights in that area. With more office dwellers downtown, better transportation options will follow.

[Atowwn]

After this wave of development what's next for DT.? After the skyhouse, edition,charter square. What things are in VERY early planning stages? If any.

[orulz]

Now is the time for them to start imposing stricter controls over building designs and heights in that area. With more office dwellers downtown, better transportation options will follow.

I disagree.

Form based zoning might disallow single story buildings but I don't think it should require anything more than 4 or 5 stories as a minimum.

You don't get a 50 story building out of the blue. In fact if one were to be built downtown right now on spec, it would take so long to backfill all that extra space that nothing else would get built for a long time. Alternatively, if you mandate a minimum of 20 stories for new construction then maybe developers will struggle to big enough tenants to fill that much space and we'd even miss out on some firms who might otherwise locate downtown.

We aren't running out of land. Quite to the contrary. There is oodles of land downtown that could easily be developed. By the time we finally run out of land that can be easily developed, Charter Square will be 50 years old and outdated, and can be torn down and replaced with something bigger.

[Spatula]

After this wave of development what's next for DT.? After the skyhouse, edition,charter square. What things are in VERY early planning stages? If any.

Well Charter Square North would be next on the agenda. Nothing firm yet but presumably it will end up being at least a 20-story tower.

 

Reynolds & Reynolds have also bought the Greyhound block to the north of the Quorum Center, with the intent to building something there. They tried to bring a 30+ floor building to Raleigh, "The Hillsborough" only to have those plans grounded by the great recession. They might try to take another stab at it (and hey that'd be awesome), but I'd guess it would be a more modest building, perhaps about the same size as the Quorum.

[Atowwn]

I disagree.Form based zoning might disallow single story buildings but I don't think it should require anything more than 4 or 5 stories as a minimum.You don't get a 50 story building out of the blue. In fact if one were to be built downtown right now on spec, it would take so long to backfill all that extra space that nothing else would get built for a long time. Alternatively, if you mandate a minimum of 20 stories for new construction then maybe developers will struggle to big enough tenants to fill that much space and we'd even miss out on some firms who might otherwise locate downtown.We aren't running out of land. Quite to the contrary. There is oodles of land downtown that could easily be developed. By the time we finally run out of land that can be easily developed, Charter Square will be 50 years old and outdated, and can be torn down and replaced with something bigger.

Your right I'm not sure why people keep saying we are running out of room DT. They might want to go take a look around before making such comments. I can name ten or so large lots just waisting away as parking lots. Two spots for example. The lot in front of The Duke Center. The lots on Wilmington street north of McDonalds, a few spots over where sir Walter chevy was. Yes I have been here forever. Even when sir Walter was DT lol. Not to mention the lots by the new bar association. I could go on. There is plenty of room DT. Relax people.

[Atowwn]

Well Charter Square North would be next on the agenda. Nothing firm yet but presumably it will end up being at least a 20-story tower.

 

Reynolds & Reynolds have also bought the Greyhound block to the north of the Quorum Center, with the intent to building something there. They tried to bring a 30+ floor building to Raleigh, "The Hillsborough" only to have those plans grounded by the great recession. They might try to take another stab at it (and hey that'd be awesome), but I'd guess it would be a more modest building, perhaps about the same size as the Quorum.

I knew about all that. Was wondering if there was more. So much going on DT now I guess the big shots have their hands full lol. There is an apartment planned call the Lincoln behind the old salvation army building not sure when they plan on moving forward with that.

[Euphorius]

I've heard there are 2 more hotels that are in the planning stages that haven't been announced yet. 

[Atowwn]

I've heard there are 2 more hotels that are in the planning stages that haven't been announced yet.

I have heard that also. A Hilton Garden Inn and a Residence Inn. The Res Inn is ahead of Hilton I think. I have seen renderings of it but no start date. Also approved by city already?

[Euphorius]

The Residence Inn wasn't one of the two I heard about. That one has already been approved. The two I heard about were near the L building. One was across the street from it, and the other was at the Firestone site. 

Edited April 2, 2014 by Euphorius

[Atowwn]

The Residence Inn wasn't one of the two I heard about. That one has already been approved. The two I heard about were near the L building. One was across the street from it, and the other was at the Firestone site.

I'm not sure. I thought the Hilton was the one going by the L building on the firestone site. My point is I think it the same project. I could be wrong though. Not a

A lot of clear info out there yet.

[Euphorius]

I seem to remember one of them being a Hilton Garden Inn. I was a little unclear in my description. One of the hotels I heard about is going on the block with Firestone, and the other is supposed to be going on the block with the rental car place just north of the convention center. 

[Jones_]

I thought one of the more likely ones was just south of Pooles on the Tire Shop gallery site....not sure the brand

[Green_man]

The City has received 6 proposals of interests regarding the abandoned "Stone's Warehouse" near Moore Square. 

 

http://www.midtownraleighnews.com/2014/04/14/3784578/stones-warehouse-draws-six-development.html

 

 

Here’s what the initial six proposals involved:

Grocery and apartments: Developer Jim Anthony wants to build a 7,000-square-foot grocery store and open-air market, with 105 apartments over three floors surrounding a courtyard with a movie screen wall. The proposal would satisfy a longstanding need for a grocery store close to downtown.

Charter school: Developer Greg Hatem’s Empire Properties is eyeing the site for Exploris Charter School’s expansion. The development could also have room for some retail or office space. The city recently rejected Exploris’ bid to temporarily use the old Salvation Army building at Moore Square when it adds elementary grades next year. But the school idea doesn’t fit the Comprehensive Plan, which could get Exploris knocked out of contention.

Coop market, business incubator and homes: Kelvin Dumas and Fertile Ground Food Coop want to build a “central market food coop” with retail and business incubation space, 72 apartments and 24 townhouses.

Tear it down and build condos: The only proposal that doesn’t keep part of the historic warehouse comes from John Florian, which would tear down the building and construct 80 condos and townhomes. Florian is the developer behind The Lincoln apartments being built a few blocks away.

Grocery, “food collaborative” and housing: One of the city’s biggest affordable housing nonprofits, DHIC, is working with Raleigh Restoration Group on the proposal for a 9,900-square-foot grocery, a 15,500-square-foot “food collaborative” and incubator with 20-25 workforce and market-rate townhouses.

Offices and homes: TND Partners – led by developer Bob Chapman of Durham – is proposing a 14,900-square-foot coworking space similar to HQ Raleigh with up to 28,000 square feet of office space, up to 39 apartments and 13 row houses.

 

I think the ones that make the most sense to me are the 1st and 5th ones listed.  Although less than 10,000 sq ft for a grocery seems pretty small.  And I'm not exactly sure what a "food collaborative" is.

[Spatula]

only the proposals that involve a grocery should be worth consideration

[RALNATIVE]

The first proposal has got my vote!