Downtown Raleigh's Future

[KJHburg]

Okay this is good news Krispy Kreme signs a 20 year lease for their store on the edge of downtown Raleigh after selling the building to real investment trust. My picture from last summer.

https://www.bizjournals.com/triad/news/2018/04/11/after-sale-krispy-kreme-signs-lease-to-stay-in.html?ana=e_ae_set2&s=article_du&ed=2018-04-11&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1523475832&j=80976731

[RiverwoodCLT]

I have had a few doughnuts from there.

[ctl]

For all the uproar, you'd have thought the General Assembly had chosen a new state capital.

[KJHburg]

Downtown yearly recap.  Now 8500 residents. Lots of positive news in here.  

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2018/04/17/by-the-numberanalyzing-downtown-raleigh-s-growth.html?ana=e_ae_set1&s=article_du&ed=2018-04-17&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1523995234&j=81076201

the News and Observer article on the same topic http://www.newsobserver.com/article209097989.html

Edited April 17, 2018 by KJHburg

[Scotchman]

Anyone have information on where this is and what maybe be coming to property?

From Biz Journal

Sisters sell old car dealership property in downtown Raleigh for $3.5M

https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2018/04/23/sisters-sell-old-car-dealership-property-in.html

Edited April 24, 2018 by Scotchman

[Merthecat]

It's these two properties:

 

[Jones_]

Oh good. Been waiting for this as it's a prime mid-density plot of land. It had a for sale sign facing Person for a long time. Perhaps say a 6 story multi-use (residential over retail) building facing Blount and some townhouses jammed in and facing Person? Filling in these parcels is key for a 'vibrant'downtown. 

[Spatula]

It'll never happen but I'd like to see something tall in that spot.

[InitialD]

18 to 20 floors isn't too tall for that spot. 

[bj-26]

I could see something 20 stories with a parking deck fitting that spot perfectly! Just a far-fetched dream though.

[KJHburg]

Great photo set from ClearSky  of Charlotte of downtown Raleigh's skyline from this week.

http://photos.clearskyimages.com/2018-05-raleigh-nc-aerial-photos-uptown-may-01

[KJHburg]

This is interesting about state government buildings in downtown Raleigh with $100 million of deferred maintenance.  Some of these buildings should be sold for redevelopment but not sure I would be in favor of moving alot of the government offices out of downtown.  But some kind of private public partnership should be looked at that would develop some new buildings that the state leases a chunk of space on land they own but also with some private businesses with the prime upper floors.   Lets build a 30 story high rise with state on lower floors prime upper floors for private companies.   I know some of you work for the state what do you think of this?

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article211651174.html

[Jones_]

State employee here. I'd wager that about 1/3 of State employees like being downtown, 1/3 are ambivalent and 1/3 hate it. I'm obviously in the first third. The troubling part of the article is that it clearly implies we are not worthy of class A office space...put us somewhere cheaper it said. The current folks in the Reichstag make no bones about how much they value State employees. They would not even discuss State employee raises in a newscast, and have now deployed the budget nuclear option...no debate passage. I guess we'll get $500 one time bonuses, and our raise money is being rerouted to '3rd party objective consultants studies 'that'll support moving us out. 

I do think there is plenty of opportunity to better use all those parking lots, and stack us in taller buildings.  For fun, I draw up downtown government plans all the time and can easily squeeze the entire downtown workforce into half the footprint. I very much want to remain downtown and wish they'd follow one of my plans

[ctl]

It's not the first time that the State has contemplated moving people out of downtown Raleigh. Given that the City gets no tax revenue from State buildings, one could argue that an orderly migration of State employment out of downtown could be a good thing if the private sector picks up the slack. That's a rather large "if", though, and it would take a long time to play out favorably. The scenario in which the State moves thousands of people away from Raleigh over a short period of time, on the other hand, is obviously unfavorable. As to how many sites along or outside I-540 could accommodate thousands of State employees in a short period of time, I'm unsure. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by ctl

[KJHburg]

From what I have seen the state is under utilizing the land they control for sure and consolidating into more efficient floorplates is what private businesses do all the time.  The comment about parking and how many spaces are not even used is just crazy.    Someone contact Mr Kane and tell him to come up with 750,000 sq ft tower 30 story tower on state land with 400K preleased to the state and sell over time some of  this surplus land.   And have the NC Treasurer invest the land proceeds  to pay the rent over time.  I can dream.  With a public observation deck that would be  state run on the top floor as an attraction. 

Edited May 24, 2018 by KJHburg

[Jones_]

28 minutes ago, ctl said:

It's not the first time that the State has contemplated moving people out of downtown Raleigh. Given that the City gets no tax revenue from State buildings, one could argue that an orderly migration of State employment out of downtown could be a good thing if the private sector picks up the slack. That's a rather large "if", though, and it would take a long time to play out favorably. The scenario in which the State moves thousands of people away from Raleigh over a short period of time, on the other hand, is obviously unfavorable. As to how many sites along or outside I-540 could accommodate thousands of State employees in a short period of time, I'm unsure. 

That whole 'second downtown' spot over on Blue Ridge never completely died. DHHS's other campus had an alternative evaluated to go out there...I'm sure you could build some sprawling complex out there on land the State already owns...they own virtually everything north of Wade, west of Blue Ridge....and make money off a massive sell off downtown at the current $10M an acre just for land. 

[JeffC]

Just selling off some of the surface parking lots that sit empty after 5 and on weekends would probably earn enough money to pay for a new campus somewhere else.  The worst to me is the block where Meredith used to be, and the block that has the Haywood House forlornly on one corner.  An obscene misallocation and misuse of prime real estate...

[ctl]

2 hours ago, JeffC said:

Just selling off some of the surface parking lots that sit empty after 5 and on weekends would probably earn enough money to pay for a new campus somewhere else. 

I doubt that, unless there is an existing facility that the state could buy and rehab at minimal expense. Such a facility isn't likely to be anywhere near 540. Land prices don't get cheap until you're 5-10 miles beyond 540, and new construction is very expensive anywhere.  The sale of a few parking lots downtown wouldn't get you over the goal line on new construction.

[Jones_]

16 minutes ago, ctl said:

I doubt that, unless there is an existing facility that the state could buy and rehab at minimal expense. Such a facility isn't likely to be anywhere near 540. Land prices don't get cheap until you're 5-10 miles beyond 540, and new construction is very expensive anywhere.  The sale of a few parking lots downtown wouldn't get you over the goal line on new construction.

That depends on what direction you are going. Beacon Plaza would probably just give itself away so as to be relieved of the tax burden. 

[KJHburg]

JLL reports about the growth of downtown Raleigh office space and reports that 40% of the tenant leases in the last 18 months have been tech firms.

http://www.jll.com/raleigh-durham/en-us/research/snapshots/909/raleigh-durham-5-7-18-downtown-growth

 

 

Edited July 10, 2018 by KJHburg

[KJHburg]

downtown Raleigh continues to attract a variety of firms many tech but others like Arch Capital 

http://www.costar.com/News/Article/Raleighs-Urban-Core-Continues-to-Drive-Office-Leasing/203639

[Merthecat]

The American Planning Association chose Fayetteville St. as one of its five "Great Streets" in the country for this year's edition of the award.

https://www.planning.org/greatplaces/streets/2018/fayetteville/

[KJHburg]

Kane Company is seeking a rezoning for an up to 20 story office building across the tracks from the Union Station.

Subscriber article https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2018/10/02/kane-pitches-20-story-tower-in-downtown-raleigh.html?ana=e_du_prem&s=article_du&ed=2018-10-02&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1538521954&j=84163381

""Just across the tracks are the single-story offices of Clancy & Theys Construction, home to the company’s headquarters since the 1970s.   But Kane Realty Corp., the developer behind the nearby The Dillon tower, is pitching an ambitious plan to overhaul the property. The firm is under contract to buy the 6.8-acre plot of land and recently filed a rezoning application with the city that would drastically alter this corner of the Warehouse District.  The development company is asking the city to change current land-use regulations to allow up to 20 stories on a portion of the site, in addition to a mix of uses, including residential, office and retail. Current zoning classifies the land for lower-density industrial uses, with a height limit of 7 stories.""   from the article and the part closest to Dupont Circle would remain current zoning which allows up to 7 stories. 

[KJHburg]

New 9 story hotel proposed by Raymond Group (who seem to do a lot of Hilton hotel products) across from Nash Square at the corner of W Martin and S Dawson.   The lots total just under an acre.    This would be in addition to the AC by Marriott proposed in Glenwood South area and the Origin hotel there next to One Glenwood's garage.  

Subscriber article  https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2018/10/11/developers-pitch-9-story-hotel-in-downtown-raleigh.html?ana=e_mc_prem&s=newsletter&ed=2018-10-11&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1539262476&j=84343521

In my opinion downtown Raleigh needs a few more hotels so all 3 of these should do good.  More office space increases demand for business travelers not to mention leisure and convention business.   This would be one block away or so from the Dillon which is all leased up office space wise. 

Raymond Group portfolio of hotels

http://raymondteam.com/asp/PropertyList.aspx

Edited October 11, 2018 by KJHburg

[Jones_]

It's curious how all of the hotels that we'd been anticipating...Enterprise lot, Turn key lot, 300 Hillsborough...all have failed to materialize...(I know 300 might have but for the death of one of their partners). Seems to be a thing...hotel companies buying and holding land.