Downtown Raleigh's Future

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

There's no way a lot of the buildings such as Briggs Hardware will be allowed to be torn down.

That's what I thought about the First Citizen's bank building too! We have to be vigilant and push back if we start to hear about such things. We have got to protect the few older buildings that we have left.

[ChiefJoJo]

When Fayetteville St is extended southward, that will open up Sites 2 & 3 for more development. You can bet with the momentum we have already, there will be significant interest in those sites. I also agree with Justin (I think it was) who said the First Citizens and old Wachovia bldgs (behind Mecca Restaurant) could be taken down and rebuilt into a new tall structure. I think there are enough sites to build on so we can hopefully keep the historic buildings we have in tact.

[Tayfromcarolina]

Whatever new things are built should definetly have a 24/7 theme in view. Things like an extended hours Raleigh Main Library.(The city is approaching 400,000 afterall) Typical but Unique and new eateries for the area. More Residential, Shops, perhaps a city entertainment/retail type center like Epicenter in Charlotte or McArthur Center in Norfolk.

[dmccall]

I do think that the 6ish-story building containing Port City Java at its base could certainly go. It is a hideous structure that doesn't represent anything significant architecturally that the courthouse doesn't already offer. IT is a key location where a landmark building could make a huge impact. They could probably take that space where Martin St. Music hall is and redo the entire strip there....one day. But I agree that Sites 2 and 3 are the next things to worry about when 2008 rolls around.

view in Google Maps

[Jones_]

Today, I took a drive down Fayetteville St. and I realized something, After RBC and all the south end redevelopment it will all be full, There will be no more lots on Fayetteville St. So that leaves us two options, to tear down, or change direction. I think that after about 2010 or so, we should stop developing Fayetteville St. Fayetteville St. has such a wonderful charm to it, just the perfect mix of old and new, and I would really hate for it to turn into sunless-glass skyscraper st. Thats not what it should be. It should be homey, and sunny, and HISTORICAL. I do NOT want to tear down another building on Fayetteville st. (with a few exceptions). So my vote is, after all 2010 or so, develop out, maybe around the progress energy cites, and south, or to the east, but leave fayetteville street intact. I do not want any more BEAUTIFUL buildings torn down for some skyscraper. Some examples of some absolutely stunning buildings that were on fayetteville st. that are no longer there, are:

Security National Bank Building

Commercial National Bank Building

My personal favorite, the cape fear bank building

Some other ones (that I could not find pictures of) are the round steps bank building, and the market house/metropolitan hall.

I don't want Raleigh destroying the rest of its history, It is too valuable, not to mention, BEAUTIFUL.

What do you guys think? Any other historic buildings torn down you can think of?

I agree 100%. Your pic of the Cape Fear Bank is actually City Auditorium though, built about 1911 and burned down in the 1960's and replaced by 333 Corporate Plaza. Here is Met Hall. It was where Old Wachovia is now. I have seen pics of the Round Steps Bank (where CVS is now) but do not have any digital. I think the current First Citizens Bank could go, at least partly to spite teh fact that it had Citizens National Building razed to make room for it (what you referred to as Securities Bank)

Edited October 4, 2006 by Jones133

[JTsaysToYou]

Sorry Guys, I'm sure some of my names are way out of whack, but all I had to go by was what emporis and this little brochure I had said. But I think you guys are missing the point of what I'm trying to say. I'm thinking after ALL of the south end of fayetteville is used up, what we do then. And I'm not asking what buildings to demolish, I want to know where else we could go in Raleigh, because after about 2010-2015 I think development on Fayetteville st. should STOP COMPLETELY. Whenever I think of historic buildings and such in bigger cities, it is sad. Such as Boston, if you look at the Old Mass. State House, it is completely surrounded by skyscrapers, and it gets virtually no sun. I think it dwarfs the building, and really takes away form the historic beauty and atmosphere. That is what I don't want for Raleigh, I don't want the absolutely stunning older buildings we have to be side to side with 50+ story glass walls, blocking all sunlight and possibility of an atmosphere. I think fayetteville street will be perfect the way it is after 2010 or so. The perfect mix of historic and modern. Am I the only one who thinks we should develop elsewhere after 2010? I sure hope not, that would be sad. Imagine briggs hardware sandwiched between two fifty story buildings, doesnt that make you sad?

I think that Fayetteville st. is as perfect as it will ever get RIGHT NOW, and I don't think that we should ruin that.

*sigh*

[JTsaysToYou]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Wow, that's funny, but AMEN TO THAT!!

[JDC]

Typically most Raleigh skyline shots televised during games are the South Saunders angle.

I took an out-of-towner to DT Raleigh via the S Saunders route. When we rounded that curve when the skyline appears right in front of you, she gasped!

[Redman84]

Someone go up to the top of the tower in Broughton and take a picture. The buildings/hills obscure the view from ground level and the other buildings along Fayetteville St look too short.

Not that I could do that or anything. I just thought I'd share my story.

When I went to Broughton for a year (98-99) before transfering to Cardinal Gibbons (99-02) I always loved walking down the hallway on the 3rd floor on the front of the school and seeing the skyline downtown. Or coming out of one of the stairwell turns that go outside and seeing the skyline. Its just one of those images that sticks very vivid in my mind.

[RaleighRick]

I think that Fayetteville st. is as perfect as it will ever get RIGHT NOW, and I don't think that we should ruin that.

*sigh*

I understand what you are saying about F street, but I won't rest until old Wachovia and First Citizens buildings are gone and a new tower is built. As far as future development options go I think that is already starting to show it's hand. West of F street (Salisbury, around the convention center, along Wilmington, the blocks South of Nash Square, Hillsborough near the Reynolds tower. There are plenty of sites, both parking lots and old buildings (not historic) that are becoming ripe for redevelopment. Once the convention center is open I believe we will see a 10+ story mid price hotel like a Hampton, Hilton Garden, Courtyard or something in the immediate area. Once Reynolds tower and the CAMA are completed (assuming they both will be) the area around both of these will become prime and new announcements will follow.

Some of you guys are amazing at finding old info on past buildings. Can anyone find an original rendering of the Radisson Hotel before it was stripped of any architectural charactor to save money during construction? Please help.

[Justin6882]

You mean it was originally going to be more than a rectanglular box?

[dmccall]

We were so excited to get that hotel. Kinda funny now.

[dmccall]

Not that I could do that or anything. I just thought I'd share my story.

When I went to Broughton for a year (98-99) before transfering to Cardinal Gibbons (99-02) I always loved walking down the hallway on the 3rd floor on the front of the school and seeing the skyline downtown. Or coming out of one of the stairwell turns that go outside and seeing the skyline. Its just one of those images that sticks very vivid in my mind.

I'm with ya on that one!

One of the traditions at BHS is the passing of the tower key. The stairway to the tower is only accessible from a door on the third floor hallway. There are few people with a key, but one of those keys is always passed down from one very responsible Senior to another very responsible upcoming Senior every Spring. The key was always used to do things like hang a banner about an intramural team or something. That was back before they glassed in the little room up there. It wasn't a place you'd want to take a girl to make out, though. It was covered in bird doo and there were even a few dead ones lying around.

[ncwebguy]

The "submerged" parking lot east of Chic Fil A, behind the flower shop and barber shop can go. PE I will lose some of it's "view" but as long as this new building doesn't go as high as the Capital City Club, no one's complaints will be listened to. If they can build on top of Alexander Square, go for it.

I don't know if the existing structure could support it, but it would fill a hole if they could build in the airspace above the underground parking entrance/plaza north of the Wachovia tower. The deck itself goes to (under?) F Street and the Wachovia building. The person who owns the Capitol Room just bought the old "Wendys" building to its south, and may expand the bar/grill into that space.

The Kimbrells building could have a better use. If it an not be reconfigured, it could be torn down and replaced with a 5-8 story mid rise with better ground floor activity and no one would notice.

Taking Old Wachovia, First Citizens and the Plaza between them could give a decent footprint to wrap around Mecca and the other buildings there on East Martin. Again, having good ground floor use (as opposed to the wall of windows) would be the biggest gain there.

234 F Street (Port City Java) has a neat bank valut in the basement. It was also the site of Raleigh Telex, the first phone call routing in the state. There's a plaque there with more detail. Frank Daniels Sr. owns the building and put a lot of money updating the HVAC, etc. circa 2000. The sixth story porch has really nice views of downtown, especially to the south. If the old venture they had there took off (Total Sports), they wanted to buy part of the old McCroys building, either the part where Martin Street Music Hall/Alibi is now, or the F Street fronting part -- at least the non-Mauler Gallery part, if not the whole thing.

[JTsaysToYou]

WOW this forum is ADD, we can't focus on one topic for like two seconds, oh well, I don't think anyone agrees with me anyways, and I'm SURE developers wouldn't.

Whatever

[JTsaysToYou]

I took an out-of-towner to DT Raleigh via the S Saunders route. When we rounded that curve when the skyline appears right in front of you, she gasped!

Yeah, there is something about being there in person that is magical, I still am impressed whenever I see it, but the magic is not conveyed in a picture. We need a different money shot.

[willrusso]

Yeah, there is something about being there in person that is magical, I still am impressed whenever I see it, but the magic is not conveyed in a picture. We need a different money shot.

.... alrighty then....

[RaleighHeelsfan]

I don't understand. I think our skyline sucks!

It is so fat and ugly. We need something skinny and much taller. To bad all our upcoming towers our fat and ugly as well......

Sorry, I'm not impressed.

I enjoy being downtown, but embarrassed when I see our skyline.

[foodpainter]

WOW this forum is ADD, we can't focus on one topic for like two seconds, oh well, I don't think anyone agrees with me anyways, and I'm SURE developers wouldn't.

Whatever

Well, lucky for you, there's always Facebook to fall back on.

[citiboi27610]

Our skyline is decent. Right now we shouldn't be worrying about the skyline though. We should be concentrating on the character and content of our downtown, not just the looks. And I have noticed that its not likely our skyline will be recognizably different from others. There's plenty of cities that don't have dynamic skylines. I live in miami, for school, the skyline isn't that nice. Charlotte has done a decent job with its signiture towere, the BOA i think.

[ncwebguy]

The future of Fayetville Street is as promising now as it has been in the last 30+ years.

Fayetville Street is the closest Raleigh, Wake County, and maybe the state of North Carolina, has to Times Square in NYC. Fayetville Street has been a reflection of the times -- from the rough and tumble cross roads served by horses through the mid century center of commerce to the pedestrian mall suburbs and now back to the core gathering space of today.

Some things will (hopefully) continue to stand the test of time -- the Capitol, Briggs Hardware/Raleigh City Museum, Century Post Office, Sir Walter -- while others won't -- old Civic Center, pedestrian mall.

The future of the street is to make better use of unused/underused parcels, which have been listed in this thread and others, and to continue to bring life back to the storefronts and sidewalks. We can look to the past to learn from mistakes (Raddison/Sheraton, First Citizens, etc.) as well.

It isn't ADD, it is differnt people's definition of "the future" and/or what aspect of the future as it pertains to Fayetville Street.

I like the Victor Hugo quote Empire Properties often uses:

Let us, while waiting for new monuments, preserve the ancient monuments."

[Raleigh Kid]

City Officials in Raleigh seem as if they are afraid to do anything out of the ordinary downtown i read somewhere that three high rise proposals were turned down because of some aging city regulations. When do you all believe that Downtown Raleigh will stop being Mayberry and become a major center of commerce in the South?

[Raleigh Kid]

If you have ever been in Downtown Atlanta you have visited the Underground Atlanta. For those of you that have never been there it is a downtown shopping complex which attracts many people to the downtown area. Raleigh is in need of something to spur excitement in the downtown area and I believe that this may be abe to do the trick, give me your opinions on this subject.

[romec]

It's amazing how the city starts gaining some momentum and still every third thread is hyper critical of what's going on Downtown Raleigh.

Downtown is undergoing the largest building boom in its history right now. . . .

Why do ***you*** think that we are still Mayberry?

I can name 10 projects off the top of my head that will bring residents, jobs and commerce to the core of the city.

Raleigh isn't perfect, and its zoning laws (especially downtown) need revision. But open your eyes to all the growth that IS going on right now, and be patient.

[RaleighRick]

Welcome to UP Raleigh Kid. You may find it interesting to read the posts on this board to catch up on all the projects that you seem to be unaware of downtown. It's quite amazing actually.

Where did you read that the city rejected 3 high rise projects because of regulations? I must have missed that.

A few great sites to keep up with DT Raleigh development are Raleigh MSA, Raleighing, Raleigh Skyline, Raleigh Renaissance

When do you all believe that Downtown Raleigh will stop being Mayberry and become a major center of commerce in the South?

That has already happened, but our official debut will be the end of 2008.