Downtown Raleigh's Future

[RaleighRob]

3. Finally, promoting some kind of ethnic town (Indian, Vietnamese, etc ...). The triangle area is diverse, and our best restaurants and markets are located in ad hoc run down shopping centers in Cary and Capital Blvd.

True...or at the very least, more ethnic restaurants downtown, period. There's only one Indian restaurant inside-the-beltline (near ncsu) and it's not that good. Downtown finally got a Thai restaurant (Wild Ginger) though...so it's a start.

[Jones_]

I thought City Market would make a great ethnic restaurant area...it already has the native american store, the Tibetan store, Vics Italian food, Duck & Dumpling nearby.....toss in Indian food, a Japanese steak house in Progress Energy III, Ethopian food, and another Neomonde location (Neomonde might be a great tenant in the old Greenshields) and it would be pretty nice....plus the the fact the location is across the park from Exploris fits the emerging theme too....

Edited October 13, 2006 by Jones133

[raleightransplant]

More ethnic restaurants downtown would be tremendous. We have a great ethnic dining scene in the Triangle. It would be great to see some of these right downtown. Maybe we could get a couple relocations from the "little India" area in Cary. I would love to see that! If I see a Cambodian restaurant open in the heart of DT in the next 5 years, I will cry tears of joy---for we will have really arrived

[NcSc74]

First let me say that I am very excited to see all of the development in our capitol city. It is way overdue IMO. I was wondering if all of these proposals get built will the skyline finally make "the best" skyline polls. As it stands now it is not that bad from cetain angles. However most building are shrouded from 40 because of the lush canopy. Also the hills take most of the buildings from view from 440. Imagine Raleigh in a setting like here in Vegas. The city would look a lot larger because of no tall pine and oak trees obstructing your view. So will the city of oaks make the list or what.

[paletexan]

First let me say that I am very excited to see all of the development in our capitol city. It is way overdue IMO. I was wondering if all of these proposals get built will the skyline finally make "the best" skyline polls.

Agreed. It is exciting, and construction is long overdue.

The projects will help our city "catch up" to reflect the regional population ... but there is no way it will make "the best" skyline polls.

[orulz]

Hi folks:

This thread is the result of collapsing a bunch of threads together into one discussion about general issues, suggestions, dreams, questions (not specific developments or real-estate related quesitons) revolving around the future of downtown Raleigh.

The Future of Fayetteville St.

What are they afraid of?

Will Raleighs skyline be one of the best in the SE

What else does Downtown Raleigh need

Underground Raleigh?

Downtown Raleigh's Infrastructure

Let me know if you see any more topics to add in to the mix..

[ChiefJoJo]

Thanks orulz!

I had made a request to try and reduce the clutter on the board so topics don't fragment too much and the board is generally more user-friendly. One thing that can happen is you get too many topics and good discussions are bumped to the 2nd and 3rd page and people aren't aware those topics have already been discussed at length. This should be a good catch-all for these type of non-specific "where are we headed?" questions.

Oh, and please try to do a quick search before posting a new topic. Chances are pretty good it's already come up.

[ncwebguy]

Would a dedicated Karoke bar work where Crazy Vine was in 510 for a few months? I don't know how much space it would require, but that location seems to be ideal.

"Best skylines" are all in the eye of the beholder, and I personally would rather win "best street level experience." During my mini-vacation last week, I realized how the downtowns of Raleigh, Durham, etc. could learn something from Lexington and Mt. Airy of all places. To say nothing of Asheville... I know it is a bit "apples and oranges" comparison, since they do not have large malls as shopping destinations, but their respective downtown booster associations really have something to be proud of.

Mt. Airy does have the Andy Griffin Show/Mayberry attachment, which we don't want to duplicate in its entirety in the central business districts of the Triangle. But the friendly establishments with a heaping helping of local flavor is something to envy. Hopefully places like Times Bar/Morning times, Capitol Room, Crema, Big Easy, and Yanceys will "blend" with places like Coopers, Big Eds, etc. to create a forward looking, capital C City that doesn't abandon its friendly down home roots.

[carynative]

ncweb.. i'd add the mountain towns of West Jefferson and Blowing Rock to your list. Each of these communities have built a superb, walkable street level experience in their CBDs. When we were on vacation, we found that it was so easy and convenient to walk from shop to shop and restaurant to gallery safely and without passing any of the "blight" that stains certain parts of downtown. We also found plenty of other peds on the streets of these small towns, far more so than I've seen on Wilming street (for example) on a given afternoon. I really think Raleigh could learn from NCs smaller towns in how to build cohesive blocks of retail and restaurants.

[JunktionFET]

I expect there to be a lot of disagreements and poor decisions made along the way, but overall downtown is shaping into something really special. Look at how long it has taken Charlotte's downtown to recover into a truly functional and complete modern neighborhood, and it still has a ways to go.

[MR-2]

At this point we know we're getting businesses and big skyscrapers downtown. Nightlife isn't something you can just pay to get though. When I'm biking around downtown at 11:00 or later it looks like a ghost town. There's nobody and no reason to have anybody after 9. We need reasons.

[ChiefJoJo]

(1) People on the streets for 18 hours a day = lots of residential DT. That's the key ingredient IMO. To do that it's got to stay mixed-income to provide options for the marketplace such as apartments and more affordable condos (to meet the demand). We can't sustain many more $1M+ condos here, so there's got to be some $800/mo aptmts and $150-200k condos. The new density standards should help this goal.

(2) We also need to preserve our historic structures so we don't lose our heritage (like Charlotte). Those buildings are in short supply, so it's critical that during this phase of development pressure, that we make this a priority.

(3) Make a commitment to transit and land use planning. We need a city councilor to serve on TTA's board at all times so that the people who make the transit decisions are well informed on the land use side and vice-versa. There's a large disconnect right now. If TTA Phase 1 was open today, urban development would be though the roof... I'm convinced it would spur investment in the billions of dollars from Durham to Cary to Raleigh, and all of it would be of the smart growth variety--not sprawl. On the land use planning side, we need to decide where the tallest buildings belong and where the mid- and low-rise buildings belong (new Comp Plan) and coordinate that with transit, highways, schools, water, and other infrastructure to make sure we can support the development long term.

[ncwebguy]

Where do you bike around downtown at 11? Which day of the week do you go? If you are in the state government complex, you're not going to see anyone other than janitorial workers. Glenwood South is pretty happening almost every night of the week now, with activity picking up in the Moore Square, F Street, and Depot areas on Wednesdays and Thursdays in addition to the weekend night crowds. There are at least 15 "reasons" to be out after 9 downtown if you know where to look.

I think Cherokee Partners sees how the redevlopment spurred on by Fayetville Street's reopening can be repeated with the TTA rail line. But the political disconnect between TTA and *all* local governments along the line -- Raleigh, Cary, Morrisville, Durham, and Chapel Hill -- has led to the current inertia.

Someone's idea of a tax (half for transit, half for road projects) in another thread is something that could be an easier sell than "only" funding mass transit. It would be ideal to be a gas tax, but it will create "border wars" with neighboring counties that wouldn't levy the tax. So a one cent sales tax, or a few cents in county propety taxes (for all counties) would be a better mechanism. Yes taxes will go up, but the returns will be much greater than the investment. Atlanta's taxes have gone up a lot in recent years, but some problems have been solved in the process.

Better use of roads and transit won't happen if there is not something in place that keeps development from happening on the fringes without paying for the burden it creates.

[JTsaysToYou]

(2) We also need to preserve our historic structures so we don't lose our heritage (like Charlotte). Those buildings are in short supply, so it's critical that during this phase of development pressure, that we make this a priority.

I propose we do this by (once all the sites at the south end are done) banning development on fayetteville st. ot so much because eveyr building is historic, but because the air of the street needs to stay historic, and historical buildings sandwiched between 500-foot buildings doesnt count as a historical street. I think Raleigh needs a list of "forever-unteardown-able" buildings, but not just buildings, streets, and blocks, and portions of stuff. We should grow to places with margnially run-down shops and storefronts, such as peace street, salisbury, and wilmington. Anyone else agree?

[JTsaysToYou]

Do you think that Raleigh would benefit if they started banning development indefinitly on some key historic sites, streets, areas, blocks, buildings etc? Is there already a program like this in place? Where would you ban further development and why? We should make a big list and send it to the Capital Preservation Society and Developers. So what do you think?

[JDC]

Build apartments and condos that working people can afford to live in. Blend the new buildings with the old. Don't let new buildings build parking structures within them. Charge people to park in the city garages and on the streets; their SUVs take up far too much space to let them park for free. Then when the combined costs of gas and parking (and tolls someday) are too high, people might consider mass transit. When mass transit is a more convenient option than driving, then people will be on the streets. There will be a demand for the buses to run later. Nightspots will stay open later and there will be more of them. People in Glenwood South won't have to drive drunk or designate a driver. Non-entertainment business will follow, brining amenities to the residents and workers of the city.

Raleigh has the body of a great city. It just lacks the soul.

[Damien]

I don't think banning development in any area downtown should happen. Height restrictions and architectural guidelines should be in place in certain areas like the historic neighborhoods. Banning development downtown will only further drive the suburban mentality and development patterns in the area. The city didn't renovate F. St. to just let it sit there as is. There are lots on F. St. that could be developed or redeveloped like the First Citizens bldg. and the Alexander Place parking deck. Banning development wouldn't get us, as a city, anywhere. More adaptive re-use should occur, but there need to be new developments to go along with that. Old can mix with new quite well and create a truly unique and beautiful area. Sure F. St. is a historic street, but that doesn't mean that all the buildings lining the street have to be historic. For that matter there are plenty of other streets that one could call historic in downtown. If we ban new things on all of those streets downtown will never fulfill the abundant potential that is there.

Edited October 18, 2006 by Damien

[RALBOI]

I don't think banning development in any area downtown should happen. Height restrictions and architectural guidelines should be in place in certain areas like the historic neighborhoods. Banning development downtown will only further drive the suburban mentality and development patterns in the area. The city didn't renovate F. St. to just let it sit there as is. There are lots on F. St. that could be developed or redeveloped like the First Citizens bldg. and the Alexander Place parking deck. Banning development wouldn't get us, as a city, anywhere. More adaptive re-use should occur, but there need to be new developments to go along with that. Old can mix with new quite well and create a truly unique and beautiful area. Sure F. St. is a historic street, but that doesn't mean that all the buildings lining the street have to be historic. For that matter there are plenty of other streets that one could call historic in downtown. If we ban new things on all of those streets downtown will never fulfill the abundant potential that is there.

I strongly agree with your point of view. I hate that word "banning" when it comes to downtown Raleigh development.The truth is Raleigh is no Richmond,VA when it comes to historic buildings in it's core, most of the buildings that are downtown are just old and crappy, and there is nothing historic at all about most of these buildings, am not saying destroy our past, but let's be real their are not alot of these so called historic buildings downtown anyway to really destroy, "so in a nutshell" let's preserve the very small number that are historic, and demolish the pretenders, and create our new history by having outstanding designs and architecture for Raleigh's future. Edited October 19, 2006 by RALBOI

[citiboi27610]

Do you think that Raleigh would benefit if they started banning development...

I don't think the city should as far as to ban development in any particular area. There is space for new well planned development everywhere in the city. Raleigh needs to institute more guidelines throughtout all districts. These new policies should be stricter outside of the central buiness district and even stricter outside the city limits proper, deterring development in those areas, and then having other policies that promote good development downtown, infill development, as well transit.

[carynative]

Driving into downtown this morning down Captiol from Wade, I thought how "urban" Raleigh feels through there. You have the Quorum litterally in front of you, the Glenwood South area on your right, the old mill on your left and the highrises in the background. I think that, combined with the semi-freeway experience of that route gives a feeling of urbanism that we don't really have on any other inbound route. (Maybe Western).

That being said. I think that this route will really pop with the addition of West at North, 222 and the RBC building. You can see the Bloomsbury crane very clearly, but I'm not sure how much of the building you'll see.

Now... if we can only do something about the solid waste services site.

[Flash]

[Flash]

[urbanvb]

Very nice, Flash... as usual.

[JTsaysToYou]

OMG THAT IS SO BEAUTIFUL I THINK IM GONNA DIE

*dies*

I LOVE YOU FLASH!

[JTsaysToYou]

I'm posting twice because its a different subject.

Its weird, the RBC building makes Reynolds look really dull and boring.

I think reynolds needs to step up their game a little bit and make it look cooler.

JMHO