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I hear this question a lot, in fact I was talking to the librarian at the law firm this morning where I work in downtown Raleigh. She lived in Charlotte for a number of years and a couple of years ago transferred to Raleigh. She said she likes it better here because of the universities in close proximity in the area. Also there tend to be a lot more intellectual and arts oriented things in the Triangle area. And from what I hear, and I tend to agree with this, the night life is better. Also the Schools at least in Raleigh/Wake County are amongst the top in the south Behind Austin Texas. And the Crime rate is far lower in Raleigh/Cary and the Surrounding areas than in the Charlotte area in general.

So maybe this well help you out a bit in your decision.

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city council approved up to 40 stories at the Go Raleigh site by Union Station.  Now there is a possibility for 3 40 story towers in downtown Raleigh outside of the narrow area around Fayetteville St.

Not sure how official this one is, so I'll leave it in this "futures" topic for now.   213 S Harrington Street 20 story building: residential with ground floor retail (Apple?!) curr

More good news, the Nexus, the previously four 20-story tower project is being rezoned to 40 stories. 

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This is one question where everyone has a different answer, but I'm curious.

What do you think will be the future of Raleigh?  Are we bound for great things downtown?  Will Raleigh reach out and claim the distinction as the heart of the Triangle (more than it currently is)?  After spending some time downtown this weekend, I do believe the area is going to truly bust out.  I think people are starving for this, and I can see Glenwood South getting more vertical and merging with the existing CBD (which will grow as well in the coming years).......

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Raleigh has the 800 lb gorilla called RTP working against its downtown revival. While RTP has done great things to bring a great deal of prosperity to the Triangle, it has done so at the expense if its downtowns. I would think it would be very difficult to get people to buy an urban place in the downtown area (along with the disadvantages that comes with that) to not have the counter of an easy trip to work for having done so.

If for example, IBM's 14,000 employees were working downtown in a similar manner to BofA's employees in DT Charlotte, I think you would see a completely different situation there.

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Raleigh has the 800 lb gorilla called RTP working against its downtown revival.  While RTP has done great things to bring a great deal of prosperity to the Triangle, it has done so at the expense if its downtowns.  I would think it would be very difficult to get people to buy an urban place in the downtown area (along with the disadvantages that comes with that) to not have the counter of an easy trip to work for having done so. 

If for example, IBM's 14,000 employees were working downtown in a similar manner to BofA's employees in DT Charlotte, I think you would see a completely different situation there.

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I don't think that you are aware that people work in other places in the Raleigh than rtp. Yes rtp may have done a number on downtown development. But on the other hand, Raleigh might not be as well developed as it is today if rtp is defferent. There are other cities in the USA that were in similar situations as Raleigh is right now, and they have thriving downtown areas. Raleigh is just starting to see a focus on downtown development. Which will be good for letting people know that a downtown actually exist in Raleigh. The downtown area will not become anything amazing probably within the next 7-10 years because it has so much catching up to do. But you don't have to be so optomistic about everything monsoon that will do something good about the Raleigh area. I don't believe I have seen a Raleigh foremer talk smash about Charlotte in their threads, but you seem to be the first one to the scene to talk trash about Raleigh.

-just my two cents

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The downtown area will not become anything amazing probably within the next 7-10 years because it has so much catching up to do. But you don't have to be so optomistic about everything monsoon that will do something good about the Raleigh area. I don't believe I have seen a Raleigh foremer talk smash about Charlotte in their threads, but you seem to be the first one to the scene to talk trash about Raleigh.

-just my two cents

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I think you and monsoon are expressing almost the same point. I find it amusing you would imply he is talking trash about Raleigh.

What if this and what if that is all speculation of course. I believe that if IBM (for example) had built a large facility in downtown Raleigh instead of RTP decades ago, downtown Raleigh would be much more of a regional focal point.

As he (and you) have pointed out, RTP is a blessing and a curse. Its present form, whether good or bad, has brought a great deal of prosperity to the area, and its placement helps to bond four growing cities together into a much stronger entity. The downside is that such a tasty and large slab of land (either in RTP or around it) does tend to pull people away from the cores because of convenience.

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Mike1, the people I know just think Raleigh is a more cultured city and has more potential. They think that Raleigh is more diverse than Charlotte and has a more "laid-back" attitude. One friend said Raleigh was a grown-up verion of Austin, if that makes sense. :)

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I'm from NY and the statement about everyone from NY moves to RAL over CLT,that's BS. Most people I know from NY have chosen CLT already and there's more to come. In NY you hardly here about RAL like you hear about CLT. If you think RAL is more diverse than CLT you are sadly mistaken, check the census reports. AS far as comparing diversity CLT was one of the most diverse in the south.Yes I agree that RAL is more laid back than CLT but that's because they are on two different levels and anyone would be crazy to keep putting CLT down as if it came second to RAL and that is a bunch of bull. I have family in RAL and I've stayed there from time to time on business but to say nightlife is better there , that is BS TOO.... :rofl: CLT KILLS RAL IN THAT AREA FOR A FACT.RAL downtown is like a vacant parking lot after 6pm.CLT def. has more shopping oppurtunities and I can say that coming from shopping mecca.RAL is the capitol but you know that doesn't mean anything because most of the biggest,important and vibrant cities in each respectable state isn't the capitol.

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i will refrain from raleigh bashing. i was born and raised in charlotte. in the late 90's i was so disgusted with the south charlotte way of life, i decided to head to the triangle for some "culture". i lived in between durham and chapel hill for 2 years and then raleigh for 1 more - before moving back to charlotte. some people think i am crazy when i say durham was my favorite city in the triangle followed by chapel hill, then raleigh. raleigh is growing and by being so close to other wellsprings of culture - it should come along nicely. however, the comparison to charlotte seems silly. when i got back to charlotte from raleigh i was amazed at how much the city had changed, how vibrant and diverse it had become. it seems to me raleigh wants all of charlotte's toys in the way charlotte wants all of atlanta's.

if charlotte halts all growth for 10 years - then maybe raleigh would surpass charlotte as being the biggest city in NC. till then, i think of you as charlotte's little brother. i like my little brother.

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Where do you live?  Awfully presumptuous to not even live in Raleigh.  I don't even know where to start.  Try finding a parking spot around Glenwood South after 6.

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I have to agree with HOTTSPOTTNY to an extent. I love Raleigh, but the downtown of RAL is dead. Glenwood south is obviously a Hot spot. But it is not in the true heart of dtwn RAL. Outside of students rumaging the streets, you are hard pressed to find a lot of night life in the DTN area. Chapel Hill is not bad though (Franklin Street). I like it a lot. For the transplants, NYC transplants are far more likely to live in Charlotte over Raleigh. If for only one reason, FINANCE. NYC is #1, CLT is #2 in the US. There is a much more favorable climate for the transplants and newcomers can enjoy Investment Banking/Finance jobs (and salaries) in a much cheaper environment. I work at Wachovia in dtn CLT and can personally attest that 1 out of every 3 people that I work with are from the North. (ie Philly, NYC, Boston, etc). I am not bashing Raleigh. It's a great place and I am glad it is getting national attention (ie Forbes artile). But if I am wanting to be in a more urban setting w/ big city ammentities I would have to go w/ CLT. I say that the cities in many ways compliment each other. I would really not try to compare the two. It is like comparing apples to oranges.

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This topic has really gotten out of hand its subject was supposed to be on Downtown RALEIGH nothing about charlotte. I would really like to stop focusing on how much Charlotte kicks Raleigh's mule in everything and just talk about useful things that could happen in downtown RALEIGH.

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I have family in RAL and I've stayed there from time to time on business but to say nightlife is better there , that is BS TOO.... :rofl: CLT KILLS RAL IN THAT AREA FOR A FACT.RAL downtown is like a vacant parking lot after 6pm.

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Well duh!!!........nobody goes to office buildings to party..LOL If you notice, all the nightlife spots are adjacent to the core CBD.

Hey yall, lets go start a club in the cubicle LOL.

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i would love to see raleigh learn from charlottes mistakes. i think that raleigh's growth is similar to charlotte. raleigh still has plenty of older buildings that it should retain and work in with new development. with the boom in growth that your experiencing it is easy to neglect these relics...but when there gone, it just leaves an emptiness that usually takes a generation to get through. it's almost like you dust out all the old ghosts when you tear something that old down...charlotte only has a couple of ghosts left.

i hear people saying that raleigh doesn't have a DT nightlife and this is true...but, i don't see why it should. raleigh is our capital city that houses a lot of government property DT. seperation of entertainment and state can be harmonius. look @ washington d.c. when i want to hear some music and enjoy a cocktail i don't go down by the mall....i go to georgetown or dupont. raleigh DOES have plenty of nightlife, its just in areas other than DT.

one thing i really liked about living in raleigh was the N.C. art museum. i would go there frequently. i know the museum sits on a nice chunk of land, but imagine if the museum were DT. i think this would be the type of movement that would benefit raleigh tremendously. also, 10 - 15 story residential towers DT would work.....hmmm, where are all of our elected officials sleeping?

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i would love to see raleigh learn from charlottes mistakes.  i think that raleigh's growth is similar to charlotte.  raleigh still has plenty of older buildings that it should retain and work in with new development.  with the boom in growth that your experiencing it is easy to neglect these relics...but when there gone, it just leaves an emptiness that usually takes a generation to get through. it's almost like you dust out all the old ghosts when you tear something that old down...charlotte only has a couple of ghosts left.

i hear people saying that raleigh doesn't have a DT nightlife and this is true...but, i don't see why it should.  raleigh is our capital city that houses a lot of government property DT.  seperation of entertainment and state can be harmonius.  look @ washington d.c.  when i want to hear some music and enjoy a cocktail i don't go down by the mall....i go to georgetown or dupont.  raleigh DOES have plenty of nightlife, its just in areas other than DT.

one thing i really liked about living in raleigh was the N.C. art museum. i would go there frequently.  i know the museum sits on a nice chunk of land, but imagine if the museum were DT.  i think this would be the type of movement that would benefit raleigh tremendously.  also, 10 - 15 story residential towers DT would work.....hmmm, where are all of our elected officials sleeping?

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Good point. Moore Square is offically in the CBD, but Glenwood/Five Pts areas are basically downtown areas to people in the suburbs. Most legit urban neighborhoods aren't in the business district in ANY city.

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I'm from NY and the statement about everyone from NY moves to RAL over CLT,that's BS.

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If you use your close reading skills, you would see I wrote about PEOPLE I KNOW. People I know IRL. But nice try... ;)

One more thing...

RAL is the capitol but you know that doesn't mean anything because most of the biggest,important and vibrant cities in each respectable state isn't the capitol.

Um, Atlanta? That's an exception to the each state rule.

Edited by girly
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RAL is the capitol but you know that doesn't mean anything because most of the biggest,important and vibrant cities in each respectable state isn't the capitol.

In 17 states, the largest city is also the capital. So technically while it is true that for most states, the "big, important, and vibrant city" isn't the capital, it isn't by much. So I think that's somewhat of a moot point. Furthermore, because a city has one quality doesn't automatically mean it will have the other two. Just my $0.02.

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Raleigh has the 800 lb gorilla called RTP working against its downtown revival.  While RTP has done great things to bring a great deal of prosperity to the Triangle, it has done so at the expense if its downtowns.  I would think it would be very difficult to get people to buy an urban place in the downtown area (along with the disadvantages that comes with that) to not have the counter of an easy trip to work for having done so. 

If for example, IBM's 14,000 employees were working downtown in a similar manner to BofA's employees in DT Charlotte, I think you would see a completely different situation there.

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Seems like I read somewhere a few mos ago about RTP trying to reinvent itself with housing being built there and having transit to link the area, etc.

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I was 'catching' up on my reading in this thread and could have missed it but could someone list all the new and upcoming construction DT? I recall there is a initiative(via the city website) to make DT more inviting called Livable Streets. Is this favorably moving forward?

Edited by guynvb
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Downtown Raleigh has surprised many of us during the last few years with several projects that promise to make downtown a livable and desirable place. Successful revitalization efforts have converted several areas of downtown into destinations, placing them at the top of our "areas to watch" list. There was a short period of time when announcements came out as if the sky was the limit (in terms of numbers, not height).

By far, the largest project was Two Progress Plaza's 19-story tower, which is currently hosting many of the company's employees; I am not sure whether the HQ were actually relocated into that building. The importance of this project can be easily demonstrated by the announcements of many more plans, some of which are nearing completion. The list of projects keeps growing, mainly thanks to residential infills that replace surface lots and underutilized space. So, allow me to provide a list of what's coming up:

UNDER CONSTRUCTION:

* Quorum Center - 15 stories (mixed-use).

* Paramount - 10 stories (residential).

* Dawson - 5 stories; almost complete (residential w/ street-level retail/restaurant).

* Hudson - 5 stories (residential w/ street-level retail/restaurant/TV station).

* Convention Center - 500,000 sf of space; something equivalent to 5-6 stories in height (convention).

* Reopening of Fayetteville Street.

APPROVED & PROPOSED:

* Convention Hotel - 16 stories (hospitality).

* 222 Glenwood - 8-12 stories (residential w/ street-level retail/restaurants).

* Palladium Plaza - 5 stories (residential).

* Metropolitan - 8 stories (residential).

* West & North streets (North) - Sandreuter's proposal for something at least as large as Dawson (residential w/ street-level retail/restaurants).

* Bloomsbury Estates - 5 stories (residential).

* Jones & St Mary's - Two 4-story buildings, totaling 40-50 units (residential).

* Hillsborough & St Mary's - Currently, a Capitol Broadcasting property. 150-200 units; possibly something around 5-6 stories (residential).

* Hillsborough & Boylan - another mid-rise; I do not foresee anything above 5 stories (residential).

* Peace & Boylan - 4 stories (residential w/ retail).

* West & North streets (South) - Empire Properties' proposal for an urban complex; something up to 4 stories (mixed-use).

* South Wilmington & Fayetteville - A new proposal, by Empire Properties, for a 5-6 story residential building and renovation of an existing art deco low-rise. Not exactly downtown, but the area will be incorporated into the core once development flourishes in the South End (mixed-use).

* Person Street Plaza - 3 stories (residential w/ street-level retail/restaurants).

* Carlton Plaza - 3 stories (residential w/ street-level retail/restaurants).

* Intermodal Station.

* Riverwalk.

ENVISIONED:

* Reynolds Tower - 32-37 stories (mixed-use).

* The "mystery" tower - 21 stories; not officially announced, but nearby store owners already know about it (residential w/ street-level retail and top-floor restaurant).

* East convention center wing - ~15 stories (mixed-use).

* N&O Offices - 10-16 stories of office space for News & Observer (offices).

* RBC/Centura - 12-15 stories; so far wishful thinking (offices).

* Courthouse extension - 9 stories, but equivalent to 15 regular floors. It could go higher (offices)

* Boutique hotel - 8+ story hotel w/ condos on the top, at the surface lot between Lenoir/Salisbury/South streets.

* Hilton Hotel - At the current location of Raleigh Office Supply. I assume something like 5+ stories (hospitality).

* Green Square - 6 stories (offices).

* Clarence Lightner Public Safety Center - City of Raleigh's new headquarters facility for Police and Fire Departments; probably 6+ stories (offices).

SMALL AREA PLANS - These plans guarantee a mixed-use environment with several mid-rises, low-rises, townhomes and single houses:

* Moore Square/City Market.

* North Blount Street.

* South End.

* Warehouse District/ TTA planned station area.

All of the above projects justify the increasing excitement that Raleighites feel about their downtown. Even after the completion of these projects, however, DT Raleigh has a VERY long way to go before we can place it in pars with more established downtowns (e.g. Portland, Richmond, Austin). Our city does not play in the major league, where cities like NY, Atlanta and Seattle play; currently, we are a mid-size city, without a great vision and unable to see beyond 5-10 years. Raleigh is still searching for identity, beyond its status as the capital city of North Carolina, which makes things difficult.

Anyway, the purpose of this thread is not to make Raleigh look little and vision-less, but everyone needs to keep in mind that we don't shoot for the sky, something reflected on the numerous mid-rise projects listed above. Our skyline will get a boost when Quorum Center gets completed, along with the South End developments and the Reynolds Tower. If the latter gets delivered as DT Raleigh's new tallest tower, we may not see similar developments for a while, but we'll definitely see an increase in density, especially around the South End.

After looking at the above list (which is not necesarily complete), what are your thoughts about the future of DT Raleigh? Even though we have talked about this in the past, the list I posted should make it easier to confirm or modify what has been said before. If everything goes well, the following numbers should be good for the next 5 years:

* High-rises (15+ stories): 5 (RBC/Centura and N&O not included in this category).

* Mid-rises (6-14 stories): 9 (including the courthouse, although it will be more like a high-rise).

* Low-rise (5 stories and below): 16 (including Hilton).

The above numbers do not include numerous mid-rises and low-rises that will emerge as the result of Small Area Plans becoming reality. I can easily see another 10-15 midrises being built, but to speculate on the height would be foolish. Let your imagination go wild and picture DT Raleigh for the next 5-10 years.

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i take no credit for that it was made by a user by the name of Raleigh-Nc from ssc

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^ That is an impressive list nonetheless. It does sound like Raleigh is booming DT (or will be soon). That is a huge amount of projects. I would think as these are built others would come into the picture as well. I really hope they can get some high end retail in there though. That can be a big draw for a DT. Success breeds success. :)

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  • 4 weeks later...

Here are a few pics of the new 230 million dollar Convention Center. Now under construction in downtown. Raleigh Convention Center

I think that this along with the fayetteville street mall project. Are the first in a series of great steps for the city. What's next? And what do you wish for?

I wish that the state and city could go in on a NC State Aquarium. Georgia is about to open a huge one in Atlanta. I think that this could be a Raleigh/Triangle/and State wide Attraction. We already have the Art, History, and Natural Science Museums so and Aquarium would seen to be next on the list right? Why should the aquariums only be at the coast?

ralconv.jpg

bird-eye040405.jpg

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An aquarium would be cool. I think the city needs to promote the Triangle Metro Zoo more. Not a lot of people know about it, or course that could be due to its location . For any of you who might be interested, it is off US 1/Capital Blvd. just norht of Wake Forest.

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An aquarium would be cool. I think the city needs to promote the Triangle Metro Zoo more. Not a lot of people know about it, or course that could be due to its location . For any of you who might be interested, it is off US 1/Capital Blvd. just norht of Wake Forest.

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Where off capital blv? I like to know.

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  • 2 months later...

With the reopening of Fayetteville Street to traffic, it got me wondering what my ideal Fayetteville Street would entail. I wasn't alive during its heyday, so I've only known the street as a dead, somewhat dangerous urban pedestrian mall.

I've see pictures of how it was back in the day, and I have a few ideas of what I'd like to see become of Fayetteville Street and I wanted to get you guy's opinion of what you'd like to see and what kind of businesses will thrive there. I'll start off with one thing I would really love to see on Fayetteville Street.

The Sir Walter needs to be converted back into a hotel, something like a Ritz-Carlton with the overhang over Fayetteville Street with the lights running around it and Flags propped up on top of the overhang to drop out dignitaries, politicians, visitors, etc. This would add glamour to the street, which I definitely think it needs. This is Raleigh's main street, and I don't want it to be boring to look at.

That being said, my vision for Fayetteville Street is one of glamour and high style, and high energy. I think it will be awesome when we can watch the Christmas parade come down Fayetteville Street once again.

So, now your turn, name a business (or type of business) you'd like to see come to Fayetteville Street that would help make it your "ideal" street. Also, explain what your ideal Fayetteville Street would be.

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