Kidd's Hill/Crabtree area development

[jlblaes]

An Atlanta partnership wants to build condos, apartments, shops and restaurants on Kidd's Hill overlooking Crabtree Valley Mall -- the latest project in the transformation of one of the Triangle's most popular retail corridors into a place also to call home.

See the N&O article below...

Link

[NCMike1981]

Aww the article says the mall plans to divide the Lord & Taylor space up into about 30 smaller shops...I guess no new mall anchor

[StevenRocks]

I don't think the Lord & Taylor conversion plan will work. From what I heard, they want to do a streetscape treatment to it and said streetscape would be facing the rear of the mall. Not exactly great planning. If they get anyone to lease space in that, I'd be suprised.

[cosmoboy]

Yeah really!

[f0xym0p]

I've got to get back to Raleigh and see all these changes! When did Lord&Taylor close? So that spot has just been sitting there vacant?

I'm really surprised that it couldn't be successful there.

[NCMike1981]

It's not closing until after Christmas I believe, sometime in January...I went in there once, I really wasn't impressed, the store is all clothes and the interior doesn't look modern or luxurious. I mean Hechts looks more upscale then it does :-p

[Tayfromcarolina]

Sheesh. I wish someone from Crabtree Valley Mall would call up Neiman Marcus. Obviously the Population base demographics could handle it. Then they could go forward with a huge renovation.

We have Nordstrom, and Saks, Neimans in next. If Charlotte has one so should we. It would create that much more of a draw to the Mall and area.

[NCMike1981]

I wish we could have gotten Nordstrom and Saks in the same mall. In a fantasy world Saks would have taken over for L&T, and Nordstrom would replace Sears....and somehow Neiman Marcus would have found space at Crabtree as well. This would have made Crabtree have Belks, Hechts, Nordstrom, Saks and Neiman Marcus. LOL oh to dream....

[avery]

It seems to me that flooding would be an issue here. I live near Crabtree and anytime there is a downpour, there is a little feeder creek that runs through that property that swells enormously. I'm interested in how they will divert the water, especially with the addition of more pavement.

As far as department stores go, I for one favor whatever the mall intends to do with Lord & Taylor. Depending on the 30 or so more stores they add, it may be better than a Neiman-Marcus as far as sales per square foot is concerned. This means more rent $ for the mall. Nobody complained when Crabtree added Crate and Barrell, Cheesecake Factory, J Crew, etc. It can still be a huge draw for the mall if they don't go the major tenant route.

Not disclosing my source, I heard plans of Crabtree redeveloping the parking lot outside of Belk, making it a "restaurant mecca." I heard Ruth Chris mentioned as one potential tenant and a 2-story Barnes & Noble. Plans are in the works to redevelop all the way to the Exxon at the corner of Blue Ridge and Crabtree. They are going to level it all and with the development planned and started around Crabtree, I have a feeling good things are in store for this part of town.

[StevenRocks]

What I think ought to happen at Crabtree is:

-- Hudson Belk moves to Lord & Taylor's anchor pad and builds an new store (to finally eradicate the spirit of '72 from an otherwise updated mall.

-- Demolition of the existing Hudson Belk building and the Convenience Center.

-- Replacement of the entire east end of the mall with a lifestyle component anchored by Neiman Marcus and containg casual dining restaurants and an expanded Crate & Barrel.

[jlblaes]

Not disclosing my source, I heard plans of Crabtree redeveloping the parking lot outside of Belk, making it a "restaurant mecca."  I heard Ruth Chris mentioned as one potential tenant and a 2-story Barnes & Noble.  Plans are in the works to redevelop all the way to the Exxon at the corner of Blue Ridge and Crabtree.  They are going to level it all and with the development planned and started around Crabtree, I have a feeling good things are in store for this part of town.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

...redevelop all the way to the Exxon at the corner of Blue Ridge and Crabtree.

I drive by there every day and I ntoiced that the Exxon is now a shell station. Anybody else notice this ?

JB

[jlblaes]

Today's N&O says that Highwaoods is going to begin building the second office building at Glen Lake this October. This is a really nice looking office park. I kinda wish they had held out and not sold some of the property for residential. The Crabtree submarket appears to be rather hot right now.

GlenLake Master Plan

Glen Lake

News & Observer Link

Edited July 15, 2005 by jlblaes

[richthofen]

30 stores? Could they actually cram that many into the Lord & Taylor space? That number sounds a bit high to me...

And the fact that Lord & Taylor couldn't sustain a store there may be part of the reason we're not getting attention from Saks or Neiman-Marcus. The mall couldn't support the one upscale department store it had, outdated facilities notwithstanding.

[romec]

I think 30 makes sense; 15 stores a floor, probably 4 "quadrants" of 4 stores each on each floor.

[NCMike1981]

I think that Lord & Taylor started having financial problems shortly after the Crabtree store opened, which explains why they never opened any more stores in the state. I seriously doubt that in '94/'95 (whenever the store opened) that Lord & Taylor planned on that being the only store ever in North Carolina. It would seem as if they would have opened at least a store in Charlotte somewhere had the chain been healthy. But, alas, Lord & Taylor is currently closing stores like crazy in non core markets.

Edited July 15, 2005 by NCMike1981

[richthofen]

Today's N&O says that Highwaoods is going to begin building the second office building at Glen Lake this October. This is a really nice looking office park. I kinda wish they had held out and not sold some of the property for residential. The Crabtree submarket appears to be rather hot right now.

Yeah, Glen Lake is a pretty nice looking park in a good location. Assuming they keep the buildings all of the same style, it should be a good spot.

[StevenRocks]

I think that Lord & Taylor started having financial problems shortly after the Crabtree store opened, which explains why they never opened any more stores in the state. I seriously doubt that in '94/'95 (whenever the store opened) that Lord & Taylor planned on that being the only store ever in North Carolina. It would seem as if they would have opened at least a store in Charlotte somewhere had the chain been healthy. But, alas, Lord & Taylor is currently closing stores like crazy in non core markets.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Lord & Taylor couldn't decide whether it wanted to be upscale or middle-market. Markets like Raleigh got caught in the mix. At first when it opened in '95, Lord & Taylor at crabtree was very upscale, then it started watering down little by little, some of it was due to the market, but most of it was due to a muddled vision on what the stores should stand for. Add to that the crappy service they had (and still have) and you've got a worthless department store. They seem to to do well in the Northeast and Upper Midwest for whatever reason, but the stores did not work anywhere else.

At one point, Lord & Taylor was trying to buy Sears at SouthPark mall in Charlotte for a second North Carolina store, but that deal never went through.

[DigitalSky]

I think that Lord & Taylor started having financial problems shortly after the Crabtree store opened, which explains why they never opened any more stores in the state. I seriously doubt that in '94/'95 (whenever the store opened) that Lord & Taylor planned on that being the only store ever in North Carolina. It would seem as if they would have opened at least a store in Charlotte somewhere had the chain been healthy. But, alas, Lord & Taylor is currently closing stores like crazy in non core markets.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, like Steven said, Lord and Taylor was trying to get into SouthPark around the time Thalhimer's moved in.. But I did not know that they were trying to buy Sears' building, I had thought they wanted to build on the side where Nordstrom was today.

[urbanvb]

Yes, Lord and Taylor was really never too successful in the south so I understand. Even the store here in Va Beach closed as well. I also understand the stores up north are more upscale than the stores in the south were but I think those stores are doing well up north.

[StevenRocks]

Yeah, like Steven said, Lord and Taylor was trying to get into SouthPark around the time Thalhimers moved in..

Edited July 17, 2005 by StevenRocks

[DigitalSky]

Wow! Interesting to know thanks for the history lesson

[NCMike1981]

Very cool, thanks for the info guys

[avery]

They have scaled back the plans of Kidd Hill due to rising costs. Included is office space from 150K to 25K and elimination of the apartments. To replace the apartments, they are doubling condos to 340 units.

[Redman84]

Does anyone have any information concerning the redevelopment of Kiddshill Plaza. Everything from the old Brendle's Building, Pizza Hut, Food Lion building have been leveled, and I believe all that remains now is the boarded up Steak-n-Ale. Haven't really seen anything going on over there as far as preperations for construction; thought maybe some of y'all might have some information as to when they (whom ever is funding the project) plans to get the wheels in motion.

I thought with the Glen-Tree project being announced and approved, this might get things moving for Kiddshill Plaza, but I've heard nothing about this project recently.

[DigitalSky]

When was this shopping center originally built?