Kidd's Hill/Crabtree area development

[tjoad]

Some good news concerning the former Galleria project, West of Crabtree Valley Mall. The current land owners have come to an agreement with a Houston company, which will take over this parcel and redevelop it into 500 residential units and 250,000sf of retail, restaurants and offices. The new name of this project will be Crabtree Town Center. Not too original, but who cares, as long as it turns out to be a good project. Hopefully, nothing too suburban in character. Just for the record, the current owner will be the developer of the 10-12 story Creedmoor Towers project, on the same area with Soleil Center 1 and 2. It is safe to assume that they have been waiting for the sale of the former Galleria site prior to moving forward with their midrise proposal.

This was posted by Raleigh-NC on SSC very recently.

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

This was posted by Raleigh-NC on SSC very recently.

What is "SSC"?

[Manolos]

SSC is skyscrapercity and SSP is skyscraperpage. They are two large / popular urban discussion forums

[DanRNC]

Here's the article on this project.

Story

[bsutton1]

Looks like we got a new buyer for the land behind crabtree..

http://www.newsobserver.com/104/story/546264.html

[ChiefJoJo]

A long-delayed plan to build condominiums, offices and shops behind Crabtree Valley Mall has new life. Weingarten Realty of Houston paid $19 million for 11.75 acres at Creedmoor Road and Crabtree Valley Avenue, and will take over --and tweak -- development plans that were hatched four years ago by seller Whistler Investment Group.

The project was to be finished in the spring. But construction costs and competing projects caused the company to delay its plans. Before Whistler got to the heavy lifting -- building a planned 300,000 square feet of offices, restaurants and shops and as many as 600 condominiums -- the company decided to sell.

Weingarten will change the name of the project to Crabtree Towne Center, said Rob Hicks, the company's director in the Mid-Atlantic region. New plans call for 256,000 square feet of retail and restaurant space. There will be about 450 apartments and condos. It also plans about 150,000 square feet of offices.

Construction could begin early next year and wrap up in 2010.

Weingarten hired new architects to jazz up the design. "We're not looking to put up just a shopping center," Hicks said.

[RALNATIVE]

Why on earth would the developer change the name of this project from Galleria to Crabtree Towne Center? Don't we already have a Triangle Towne Center in Raleigh?

[rooster8]

Cary Towne Center also comes to mind.

[RALNATIVE]

Cary Towne Center also comes to mind.

Why not add one more to the enhance the suburban fabric of the city?

[dmccall]

I think they should have gone with: The Galleria at Streets of Crabtree Town Center Commons West Village.

[orulz]

I think they should have gone with: The Galleria at Streets of Crabtree Town Center Commons West Village.

You forgot to add 'pointe' in there. Somewhere.

Honestly, I don't think they could possibly have come up with a name that doesn't sound crappy. Still, you think they would have tried a little harder to differentiate themselves.

Ahh, what's in a name, anyway? Hopefully this turns out to be a quality development.

[RALNATIVE]

Ahh, what's in a name, anyway? Hopefully this turns out to be a quality development.

Unfortunately, I think that this will help to further fragment Raleigh (i.e. Downtown vs. North Raleigh). We all know that Crabtree, Downtown, NE Raleigh, and NW Raleigh are the centers of focus for the city in terms of new development, so why create additional intercity rivalry by having two Towne Centers? In my opinion it's a branding issue that will lead to some level of confusion and also competitiveness.

Instead of the internal competition, Raleigh as a whole, should compete with cities like Austin or Nashville, which are approximately the same size and also up-and-coming cities.

Edited February 25, 2007 by RALNATIVE

[carynative]

That name couldn't be any more inncculous (sp.). It does not motivate me to visit at all. I'm sorry, but could they have picked a worse name?

[DPK]

That name couldn't be any more inncculous (sp.). It does not motivate me to visit at all. I'm sorry, but could they have picked a worse name?

You guys aren't looking at this from a business point of view. By naming it Crabtree Towne Center, they are associating it with existing known models (ie: Cary & Triangle Towne Centers). This instantly gives the customer incite into what they are bringing to the table, merchandise. If they named it Galleria it would be harder to get the name across as a shopping center. Galleria also screams "high priced" while Towne says, "hey look guys, I could be affordable to you".

As far being motivated to visit it, it doesn't matter. I'm sure you all have at some point been to Crabtree and seen it busy. The place is like a little city at times. It will get people to shop there due to its location, no matter what name it is.

Edited February 24, 2007 by DPK

[RALNATIVE]

If they named it Galleria it would be harder to get the name across as a shopping center. Galleria also screams "high priced" while Towne says, "hey look guys, I could be affordable to you".

DPK...Raleigh has plenty of affordable places to shop, and a lack of high end retail, compared to other top 50 US cities. We have a hugh influx of people who are looking for places with names like "Galleria" to shop. The trend for that particular area is to go more upscale. Just look at what the Soleil Center will offer. I'm sure that people buying million dollar condos in a highrise tower would prefer to have more options than just shopping at the expanded Belks at Crabtree Valley Mall.

Raleigh in general needs to get away for the mentality that everything in the city must be "affordable" or else it doesn't belong. That sort of thinking limits a city from reaching its full potential.

[dmccall]

I have a patient who now owns the fur store in Oak Park Shopping center. I'm trying to convince him that it would be a great idea to move down to Soleil or to the Galleria.

[RALNATIVE]

I have a patient who now owns the fur store in Oak Park Shopping center. I'm trying to convince him that it would be a great idea to move down to Soleil or to the Galleria.

As most real estate moguls in big markets know, it's all about location, location, location. It's also an important factor for BIG companies looking to move their high-paying jobs to an area.

[DPK]

DPK...Raleigh has plenty of affordable places to shop, and a lack of high end retail, compared to other top 50 US cities. We have a hugh influx of people who are looking for places with names like "Galleria" to shop. The trend for that particular area is to go more upscale. Just look at what the Soleil Center will offer. I'm sure that people buying million dollar condos in a highrise tower would prefer to have more options than just shopping at the expanded Belks at Crabtree Valley Mall.

Raleigh in general needs to get away for the mentality that everything in the city must be "affordable" or else it doesn't belong. That sort of thinking limits a city from reaching its full potential.

I'm just saying from a business point of view. Those aren't necessarily my opinions.

[CHGuy]

http://www.weingarten.com/retail/property/0607-750/

This is the latest information that I have found about Crabtree Town Center (formerly the Crabtree Galleria). It looks as if the plans have been tweaked a bit and now include a movie theater. They still say that it will be an upscale development. I look forward to seeing some renderings.

[ChiefJoJo]

Here's the site plan. Is there a sidewalk on the bridge to the mall in the upper-right of the picture?

[rooster8]

Has this been approved by the city? It doesn't look too bad, but it would be nice if it were more integrated with the surrounding streets. It looks like the service entrances and alleys face all the major thoroughfares. Perhaps the topography makes that impossible, but it would be nice to examine the possibility.

Edited May 3, 2007 by rooster8

[ncwebguy]

Is there a sidewalk on the bridge to the mall in the upper-right of the picture?

Sort of.

I used to park in the parking lot by the abandoned Brendels during my yearly patronage to check out the holiday shopping madness on one December Saturday. Before Southpoint and TTC, the Crabtree crowds were even worse than they are now. If my memory serves correctly (that parking lot has been gone for years!) there are raised "sidewalks" on each side of the bridge. If two people are walking in opposite directions on the same sidewalk, they might be able to turn sideways, but more than likely someone has to step off into the roadway.

[ChiefJoJo]

More on Crabtree Creek...

in TBJ:

The developers of the proposed Crabtree Village project on Kidd's Hill behind Crabtree Valley Mall are on target to close on the 24 acres of land in June or early July, and they're ready to flip a piece of it to Raleigh restaurateur Lou Moshakos.

Moshakos, founder of the Carolina Ale House chain, confirms he's in the process of selecting an architect for the project. It'll be a fresh seafood restaurant with a sushi bar on the rooftop and an open air patio. He hasn't yet picked a name. But he knows the cost of the project could top $5 million.

[Jones_]

Pics of Kidds Hill around Christmas. This is in response to the debate about level the level the hill/don't level the hill. This is with a crappy cell phone but I think the beautiful feel of the hill conveys and its uniqueness amongst Raleigh's topography.

[cthayes75]

Is there going to be anything to connect the two proposed developments other than the main road that runs beside the creek?

Seems like there should be some way for shoppers to walk between the two areas without having to get in their cars and drive.