Senator George Allen's racial quagmire

[dimebag1980]

This topic reminds me of Senator Robert Byrd. You may know who I'm talking about... the senior Senator who represents Democrats in West Virginia and who joined the KKK at age 24.

[monsoon]

This topic reminds me of Senator Robert Byrd. You may know who I'm talking about... the senior Senator who represents Democrats in West Virginia and who joined the KKK at age 24.

Well honestly, that really is a bit disingenious since we are talking about something that happened in the 1940s. During that time Blacks could not attend schools with Whites, could not eat in restaurants or hotels, had to sit in the back of school buses, and generally were not allowed to be full citizens in this country. There was a lot of institutionalized racism in those days which was generally accepted by white society. Today those same institutions would not be accepted by anyone including Byrd who had more to say about this here.

Senator George Allen, in my mind, has shown his true colors in 2006 and what's worse and unlike Byrd who admitted his wrongs, has decided to hide behind his mother and ignorance that he did not know the remarks he made were racist. I have tolerance for a politician that makes mistakes, I don't have any tolerance for a politician that attempts to lie his way out of it which seems to be the defacto standard these days for the GOP.

[dimebag1980]

Well honestly, that really is a bit disingenious since we are talking about something that happened in the 1940s. During that time Blacks could not attend schools with Whites, could not eat in restaurants or hotels, had to sit in the back of school buses, and generally were not allowed to be full citizens in this country. There was a lot of institutionalized racism in those days which was generally accepted by white society. Today those same institutions would not be accepted by anyone including Byrd who had more to say about this here.

Senator George Allen, in my mind, has shown his true colors in 2006 and what's worse and unlike Byrd who admitted his wrongs, has decided to hide behind his mother and ignorance that he did not know the remarks he made were racist. I have tolerance for a politician that makes mistakes, I don't have any tolerance for a politician that attempts to lie his way out of it which seems to be the defacto standard these days for the GOP.

Of course you say this, because Byrd is a Democrat. If Byrd were a Republican and had admitted his wrongs and moved on, there is no way you'd let it rest with that. Believing he has changed his ways is like believing that a child molestor could possibly change his ways. It just isn't happening.

Edited: Democrat attack deleted... it wasn't right of me to do, sorry.

[Gusterfell]

Of course you say this, because Byrd is a Democrat. If Byrd were a Republican and had admitted his wrongs and moved on, there is no way you'd let it rest with that. Believing he has changed his ways is like believing that a child molestor could possibly change his ways. It just isn't happening.

A former member of the KKK can not erase that stain on his history. However, if he publicly admits the error and apologises repeatedly for it, and then goes on to a long career without evidence of bias, there is room for forgiveness. The difference with Allen is that his actions show that he has a current, enduring attitude of unrepentant racism, and that should be held against him politically, regardless of party affiliation. If a Democrat were making comments like those he has made recently, I would feel he should be voted out of office.

You can't use events of sixty years ago to get an idea of a person's present attitude the way you can events of sixty days ago. There's a lifetime of difference, and to bring up Byrd's past in relation to Allen's present is a feeble attempt at a partisan attack.

[kayman]

Of course you say this, because Byrd is a Democrat. If Byrd were a Republican and had admitted his wrongs and moved on, there is no way you'd let it rest with that. Believing he has changed his ways is like believing that a child molestor could possibly change his ways. It just isn't happening.

Edited: Democrat attack deleted... it wasn't right of me to do, sorry.

The Democrats of pre-1980's are the same group as the Republicans of today. Please do some research of that both parties and you will see that this is true. Hints the reason why I am not partisan because both parties are just a corrupt as the other.

[Snowguy716]

I agree Leonard... my late grandparents are good examples: My Grandpa was a die-hard Democrat from birth to death.. but was a racist. He had plenty of racist jokes to tell..

My Grandma.. a died-in-the-wool Republican from Missouri and later Nebraska, she also had her fill of racist jokes to tell... I'm not sure though, because her former boss and best friend was black, so either the racism was carried over from childhood, or she held one of those double-standards that so many racist people have "Well, the ones *I* know aren't bad.. it's those other ones"... I hear that one a lot.

[dimebag1980]

The Democrats of pre-1980's are the same group as the Republicans of today. Please do some research of that both parties and you will see that this is true. Hints the reason why I am not partisan because both parties are just a corrupt as the other.

I'm very aware of how both parties have changed.

But George Allen is a Republican today and Robert Byrd is a Democrat today, so what the parties stood for pre-1980 isn't in question here - but personal character does. And just because Robert Byrd claims to be sorry for his past doesn't change the fact that he was not only a member - but a leader - in the KKK.

[monsoon]

I'm very aware of how both parties have changed.

But George Allen is a Republican today and Robert Byrd is a Democrat today, so what the parties stood for pre-1980 isn't in question here - but personal character does. And just because Robert Byrd claims to be sorry for his past doesn't change the fact that he was not only a member - but a leader - in the KKK.

Sure it doesn't change the fact that he did this in the 40's. Nobody is asking to forget the past. The point is events of 60 years ago, which were accepted by society at the time, are irrelevant when judged agains modern morals. Are you next going to condemn George Washington for owning slaves?

Since you brought up the present, then you have to judge people on what they are doing in the present. Byrd is working to improve the lives of the common person of WVA including Blacks. George Allen is working to perserve his political power and never mind the people who voted him into office if they are not white and have a lot of money.

[Charlotteman]

Allen is now under fire for not disclosing shady stock options........the sleaze just goes on and on and on.

[dimebag1980]

Sure it doesn't change the fact that he did this in the 40's. Nobody is asking to forget the past. The point is events of 60 years ago, which were accepted by society at the time, are irrelevant when judged agains modern morals. Are you next going to condemn George Washington for owning slaves?

Since you brought up the present, then you have to judge people on what they are doing in the present. Byrd is working to improve the lives of the common person of WVA including Blacks. George Allen is working to perserve his political power and never mind the people who voted him into office if they are not white and have a lot of money.

I'll give Byrd this: he's at least not admitting to being a KKK member in the present tense. But who really knows who is hiding under those white hoods in those KKK meetings?

I don't know what george Washington did, so I can't say whether or not he owned slaves. But if he did, then yes I do condemn him for that. Even in his days it had to be obvious that owning another human being was wrong. So everyone else was doing it, did that make it right?

Democrats are perfect, right? I mean, afterall, didn't Al Gore invent the internet? And didn't Robert Byrd invent the wheel? These must be two perfect men.

FYI:

ALL politicians are working to preserve their political power!! The term "honest politician" is as much an oxymoron as "compassionate conservative" (I'll never lie and say I'm compassionate) or "reformed Klansman."

HOWEVER I will say that since I don't know whether or not Robert Byrd is a member of the KKK today, I can't condemn him for that. I can, however, condemn him for his past and I do not believe he's truly changed.

[monsoon]

HOWEVER I will say that since I don't know whether or not Robert Byrd is a member of the KKK today, I can't condemn him for that. I can, however, condemn him for his past and I do not believe he's truly changed.

You can check George Washington's history and find that he did indeed own slaves. He even wrote about it. And it is your right to condem politicians for what they did in 1700s and the 1940s. However this seems to be completely irrelevant to the topic at hand.

[dimebag1980]

I'm letting it go. This topic is about George Allen, not Robert Byrd or George Washington, and I'm the person responsible for taking the topic off on a tangent.

Sorry...

Back to Senator George Allen's racial quagmire...

[monsoon]

Well it sounds as if we won't be hearing much from Allen until after the election. His handlers have decided that if he doesn't speak to the media, he won't make anymore "mistakes". You can read more about it in this article. I find it amazing that anyone can support a party with leadership such as this.

[ironchapman]

Well it sounds as if we won't be hearing much from Allen until after the election. His handlers have decided that if he doesn't speak to the media, he won't make anymore "mistakes". You can read more about it in this article. I find it amazing that anyone can support a party with leadership such as this.

From a political perspective, it sounds like a good strategy to me.

I find the extent of the character assassination going on in this thread astounding. Luckily, the majority of the voters are smart enough to look past the BS being hurtled Allen's way as Allen still holds the lead over Webb.

[monsoon]

From a political perspective, it sounds like a good strategy to me.

I find the extent of the character assassination going on in this thread astounding. Luckily, the majority of the voters are smart enough to look past the BS being hurtled Allen's way as Allen still holds the lead over Webb.

Ahh so you would rather have a politician that operates in sneaky manners, won't answer questions, won't run on his record and doesn't want to get out and talk to the voters?

Allen has performed his own character assassination, nobody here has helped him to do that. If you want to address the issues surrounding Allen, please do so, but don't insult everyone else here who has called out this "politician" for deceiving the people he is supposed to represent. I find it despicable that a politician is so afraid of facing the voters, that his stragedy is to go and hide under a rock until the election is concluded.