I went to Detroit!

[RustTown]

When you have very few retail options in many of the neighborhoods, it's going to be that way. If Detroiter's want to go to a Meijer or Kroger, they have to leave the city. If they want to see first-run movie theaters barring those that live close to downtown they choose the Star in Southfield, or some other closer area. Detroit is largely an amenities wasteland for just basic everyday life. It pains me to know that these big boxes and others could set up on the city side of 8 Mile, but know that they will lose many suburban residents for the sole fact the store would be in Detroit, so they build the store slightly outside of Detroit, but still close enough to capture the Detroit market who they know HAS to come to them.

[hudkina]

The location doesn't have anything to do with whether or not "suburbanites" would travel to the store, but rather how much it costs to build in Warren or Redford TWP vs building in Detroit. If it was cheaper for the company to build on the Detroit side of 8 Mile they'd do it, but it isn't.

[HolidayInnExpress]

The location doesn't have anything to do with whether or not "suburbanites" would travel to the store, but rather how much it costs to build in Warren or Redford TWP vs building in Detroit. If it was cheaper for the company to build on the Detroit side of 8 Mile they'd do it, but it isn't.

I think that there is some truth to that Hudkina...but there are many acres of empty land in the City of Detroit. Moreover, how and why do retailers do it in other major cities? It

[RustTown]

It's not the cost, because Detroit is practically giving land away and falling over themselves to bring these businesses to the city. I think the fact that even some of the nicest neighborhoods in the city don't have matching commercial districts speak alot to how retail works in disadvantage urban areas. They know that Detroiters don't have much of a choice, whereas locating within the city will push quite a few of their potential suburban customers to stores further out. They know that there are quite a few customers that won't even consider stepping foot in urban areas. That's definitely a huge part of it. The fact that even much of Northwest Detroit isn't much of a retail/commercial center speaks to that, because it should be. Instead, you have businesses that will located just outside of 8 Mile and Telegraph. Northwestern Detroit (probably larger, denser, and more populated than many nearby suburbs) shouldn't have to go outside of their cities just to get something as simple as decent groceries or see a movie.

Location is everything, and retailers realize that.

[JeffM]

It's not the cost, because Detroit is practically giving land away and falling over themselves to bring these businesses to the city. I think the fact that even some of the nicest neighborhoods in the city don't have matching commercial districts speak alot to how retail works in disadvantage urban areas. They know that Detroiters don't have much of a choice, whereas locating within the city will push quite a few of their potential suburban customers to stores further out. They know that there are quite a few customers that won't even consider stepping foot in urban areas. That's definitely a huge part of it. The fact that even much of Northwest Detroit isn't much of a retail/commercial center speaks to that, because it should be. Instead, you have businesses that will located just outside of 8 Mile and Telegraph. Northwestern Detroit (probably larger, denser, and more populated than many nearby suburbs) shouldn't have to go outside of their cities just to get something as simple as decent groceries or see a movie.

Location is everything, and retailers realize that.

Since I started going to University of Detroit , there has been some significant changes not only on campus but on Livernois. They are just finishing installing a boulevard, median, to allow for easier crossing of foot traffic on Livernois in the Avenue of Fashion. I think this area has a lot of potential to once again shine. It has a semi-royal oak/ferndale feel to it...but so many of the stores are just...well, crap. There are a number of new shopping centers, and plenty of old ones. The houses off of Livernois are gorgeous, and most well kept in some neighborhoods. Plus Palmer Park is right there. There are doing a lot of stuff across from the University. Residing buildings, opening new businesses up, tearing down decrepid buildings...It has really changed in just a couple short years. I hope it continues, for the sake of Detroit and the sake of the University.

Imagine if Downtown Detroit had a great shopping district, that would help the city so much, it would help bring people in and they would in turn realize that Downtown is a place to visit, and is not as dangerous as they thought....the problem as most of you know is getting the businesses to take a risk. It was probably somewhere on here that I read that there is no 7-11's in the City of Detroit. Not a draw for suburbanites (we've got so many of them) but it is just another thing that Detroiters would have to leave the city to go for, not that there is a lack of crummy liqour and convience stores...but where are they gonna get their brand name slurpies?

[RustTown]

I'm not worried about downtown. I'm worried about the still nice neighborhoods with terrible neighborhood retail districts, which is just about every neighborhood in Detroit. Downtown will become a destination stop, but I'm tired of waiting for the basic neighborhood amenities that many of the nicer neighborhoods should have, but don't. Downtown revitalization is going to help by bringing more money to the general fund, but it does nothing for vibrancy and revitalization of 7 Mile, 6 Mile, Livernois, Schaefer...someone's going to have to take a chance on these neighborhood retail strips, especially considering they could very easily work if it weren't for the fear factor of potential retailers.

One thing I was very glad to see the other day is that Kwame has expanded the moratorium on new gas stations in the city. It's little things like this that will help bring back the neighborhood retail strips:

Mayor extends Detroit ban on new gas stations

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic...PDATE/609280443

[JeffM]

I was merely thinking that the more money suburbanites poor into the City via Downtown will provide more funding to take on ambitous projects in the neighborhoods. The decision to make Livernois a boulevard with grass and trees in the middle, improving storefronts, tearing down buildings, building new ones....this development on Livernois is really a good site to see, something I hope continues, and happens in other areas.

Just curious, how many people on this board are familier with my University and that general area, and what and how the University is trying to improve the immediate area for not only the good of the University but the community of its surrounding neighborhood.

[RustTown]

Just a correction, though, the Livnois project wasn't a city project but an MDOT (state) project. Well, it was almost entirely funded by the state, from what I understand, though it was prompted by the city.

But, yeah, a healthy downtown allows for more public improvements if the mayor and city council start allocating more funds to neighborhood revitalization outside of the historic core. That's only going to get harder, though, with less funds drying up faster than they are coming into the city. And, with the state cutting revenue sharing to cities every year, I sure hope the private sector takes the leap into the neighborhoods, because the public sector is becoming less and less able to do that.

[hudkina]

That project was created because of the unusually high amount of accidents on that stretch of Livernois. This will hopefully greatly reduce that number.

[JeffM]

That project was created because of the unusually high amount of accidents on that stretch of Livernois. This will hopefully greatly reduce that number.

pedestrian accidents, correct? That is at least what I heard...and almost saw a couple. People trying to cross 9 lanes of traffic without a safe point to stop, in the rain...not safe.

It is taking them forever to finish the project though....Phase 2 will extend it down to the Lodge, which means it will cover more of the University than it does now. I believe Phase 2 will also extend furth north all the way to 8 Mile. Maybe those are 2 seperate phases.

[hudkina]

Nope. Vehicular accidents. This stretch of Livernois had one of the highest vehicular accident rates in the metro.

[JeffM]

Nope. Vehicular accidents. This stretch of Livernois had one of the highest vehicular accident rates in the metro.

ahhh...well I heard somewhere that there were a lot of pedestrian accidents because it was 9 lanes to cross with no resting point. That was probably another big part of it. I do remember something about how the median would cause the traffic to slow down, probably to combat that high vehicular crash rate. I can believe that it is high. The speed limit is 35, but no one goes that. And red lights are optional in that area....

[hudkina]

The reason most medians are installed is to reduce the amount of head-on collisions. A nice side-effect is that it gives pedestrians a "resting point" but for the most part, this project had nothing to do with pedestrians. It is MDOT, after all.

[JeffM]

The reason most medians are installed is to reduce the amount of head-on collisions. A nice side-effect is that it gives pedestrians a "resting point" but for the most part, this project had nothing to do with pedestrians. It is MDOT, after all.

ahh, looks like yeah, it was more of a side effect , at least by statistics, but it was apparently thought of by some.

Winters said the medians are being installed because the area has been identified as a high-risk corridor for crashes.

According to the latest data available from the Southeast Michigan Council of Governments, there were 148 accidents on Livernois between McNichols and Eight Mile in 2004 which resulted in 43 injuries

[Randy@Tacoma]

To the guy who began this forum: My heart pours out to you! Detroit needs more people open-minded like you and (no offense) less closed-minded people like your parents. I hope you fall in love with urban America. Detroit just may the place for you to live one day!

[illmatic774]

Detroiters go to the suburbs all the time. After all, thats where the malls are, and there are amenites in the suburbs that cant be found in the city. But if a Detroiter has no real business to go above a certain point, they wont. Is there any real reason for a Detroiter to go up to Troy, and opposed to Royal Oak, where theres a zoo? Or even Auburn Hills (nothing in between the city and AB though), where the Pistons play?

[RustTown]

You picked two cities with malls that are major regional draws. People from even other states go to visit Somerset and Great Lakes Crossings. And, Somerset is definitely a specialized center that pulls in people from all around the metro and beyond. Now, if you're talking Rochester Hills or Chesterfield, probably not.

[ZachariahDaMan]

To the guy who began this forum: My heart pours out to you! Detroit needs more people open-minded like you and (no offense) less closed-minded people like your parents. I hope you fall in love with urban America. Detroit just may the place for you to live one day!

Thanks for the post, Randy. Yeah, I really wish people like my parents weren't so closed-minded. I'm certainly starting to like urban America. Now I'm starting to actually go to bigger towns instead of cities of 5,000.

[illmatic774]

I guess youre right LMich. I completely forgot about the Somerset Collection and such. Now if it was another suburb of the likes Rochester Hills or Chesterfield, I doubt that Detroiters would have any business to attend to their, unless if they had friends living there.

And I apologize to the threadstarter. If anything I should have commended you for looking past your parents' opinions of Detroit and molding your own.