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Did you read my post? I said you could find cons with Wal-Mart just as you could with Target.

You took the liberty not to note any cons, because "there are none." Funny. What a simplistic assertion.

Wal-Mart is doing good mainly because it is in their business interest. They can't take all the attacks without fighting back and doing good. There may be a few execs on the WalMart board who want to do good just for the hell of it, but if Kmart and Walmart were in reverse roles (profit-wise), it's pretty obvious they would not be doing the same thing.

It's simple economics.

I read your post and I respect your opion, but MY opinion is that I personally have not found any cons against Wal-Mart. There are plenty of cons against retailers in general, but my statements weren't about retailers in general. You see it as "simplistic" because that's exactly what it is. Simple. There's nothing "simplistic" about the list of "good deeds" Wal-Mart is initiating and I challenge anyone to find another "big box" retailer that can claim even one of those "good deeds". Hell, I'd like to see any large company claim any of them, although because of Wal-Mart many large companies are following suit regarding environmental issues. You see Wal-Mart's "good deeds" as them trying to make amends for their past mistakes, whereas I see those "good deeds" as something EVERYONE should be doing and not just Wal-Mart.

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Regarding the clothing--I grew up in Fayetteville! Perhaps you are referring to Wal-Mart's strategy in recent years?

Regarding the tv-- I think you missed my point. I actually bought a Sony, which Wal-Mart didn't have. If you want to buy an RCA rear-projection HDTV at Wal-Mart, by all means go ahead. But there's a reason they're very, very cheap. They had other brands/models that didn't rate too hot, I forget which ones. If Wal-Mart had any of the brands/models I was scoping out, and had it at a better price, I would've bought it there. But they didn't.

Now, when I was in college I bought a cheap Sanyo (regular tv) at Wal-Mart, and it still works today.

Several years ago I shopped at Wal-Mart on 6th Street in Fayetteville and all the clothes were geared toward UofA students with, what I considered, very fashioonable styles that you would find at Old Navy or Gap. Is that Wal-Mart's recent strategy? It's hard to say because Wal-Mart is a company that never rests. There is always something changing for the better at Wal-Mart and I believe it's always been that way. Although change is slow in a company the size of Wal-Mart their goals are "ALWAYS" reached.

Another example of Wal-Mart's

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Not the one's I've been to. They were a dump because they didn't update their merchendise, they didn't pick up trash off the floors, and they didn't restock or front items.

What do you want a department store to look like? Cathedrial celeings with chandeliers and fountains where they march ducks for the crowds' enjoyment twice a day? It's a department store.

It's not about what I want them to look like. I'm just saying that some people consider their stores to be eyesores and I assume this is the reason why their newer buildings are intended to be more aesthetically pleasing. Personally, I don't think that's unreasonable.

They are convenient in most places-- they select their sites partly based on that criteria. They don't build them on dead-end dirt roads. Try stronger arguments.

I can only speak from my own experiences, but I don't consider gigantic parking lots that are full of cars to be very convenient. Shopping malls aren't very convenient either, but they're not supposed to be either. And when I said they were inconvenient, I wasn't implying that their stores were in bad locations.

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So, how long have you worked for Wal-Mart?

Btw, I never said that Wal-Mart never does anything good; in fact, I'm sure you could find a nice list of all the good things that Enron has done, if you were so inclined.

And, I agree that some of the criticism directed at Wal-Mart applies to big-box retailers in general, but not all of it; Walmart can only blame itself for much of the criticism it receives. The fact that Walmart is the nation's largest big-box retailer, however, is a good reason to single out Walmart for citing examples of problems with big-box retailers in general. I'm sure you'll agree with me there, unless you think there are no problems with big-box retailers in general?

I did work at a Wal-Mart TLE quite some years ago, but that has nothing to do with how I feel about Wal-Mart. The long list I provided should explain it enough.

That was a pretty subtle way you compare Wal-Mart with Enron. It's also a cheap shot without merit enough to even debate.

Now that I'm clear that you'd like to see Wal-Mart held accountable for all "big-box retailers in general" I can rest easy knowing I'm doing a "good deed" by ignoring you from now on.

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I so agree with this!! The only reason Sony is more expensive than other T.V.'s is because of the word "Sony" in the product.

I think part of the reason for their higher prices has something to do with them doing more of their work in Japan whereas many other other companies do more work over in China where of course wages are much cheaper. I don't just stick to Sony but I've never had a problem with anything Sony that I've bought.

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I think part of the reason for their higher prices has something to do with them doing more of their work in Japan whereas many other other companies do more work over in China where of course wages are much cheaper. I don't just stick to Sony but I've never had a problem with anything Sony that I've bought.

I can't vouch for Sony because the only Sony product that ever proved reliable was my Walkman back in the 80's. The only thing reliable about the $500 Sony TV I bought is the $100 3-year extended warranty that I added to it. Circuit City was nice enough to extend my warranty for another 10-years so at least I'll have a Sony TV that is guaranteed to last for 10 years or at least be replaced every year for 10 years. :D

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The only thing I really consider a "con" about Wal-Mart coming near where I live is the trend of abandoning stores every decade or two and leaving them abandoned and preventing other discount retailers from using them. These old stores litter NWA and even if converted into offices they clearly bring down the appearance of the area. I'm afraid we'll be seeing a couple more in Little Rock soon when new ones are built and it's a problem. Thankfully the Chenal/Bowman property will be so valuable someone will buy it and convert it but the one on Baseline might end up stagnant like one on Asher did.

Now, that's doesn't make them any better or worse than Target or K-Mart which do the same thing. Target left its old store at Barrow and I-630 to rot for years before Arvest took it over and renovated it into a mortgage facility that's pretty attractive.

Other than that I have no gripes about Wal-Mart. They're just too easy a target in so many ways it gets old hearing the derision about them.

I didn't mean for this to be an anti-Wal-Mart thread, more of a discussion of what's going on with the company and how it impacts Arkansas in positive ways.

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I did work at a Wal-Mart TLE quite some years ago, but that has nothing to do with how I feel about Wal-Mart. The long list I provided should explain it enough.

The long list you provided appeared to be self-promoting Walmart talking points straight from Bentonville. Most people don't carry such a list around with them in their pockets, but the points you made were noted and I appreciated hearing them. So, thank you.

That was a pretty subtle way you compare Wal-Mart with Enron. It's also a cheap shot without merit enough to even debate.
I didn't compare Walmart and Enron, but I did use Enron to make a point.

Now that I'm clear that you'd like to see Wal-Mart held accountable for all "big-box retailers in general" I can rest easy knowing I'm doing a "good deed" by ignoring you from now on.

Well, if you want to tackle problems with big-box retailers, you have to start somewhere; what better place then at the top? I'm sorry to hear that opposing views upset you so much; it certainly wasn't my attention.

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Now, that's doesn't make them any better or worse than Target or K-Mart which do the same thing. Target left its old store at Barrow and I-630 to rot for years before Arvest took it over and renovated it into a mortgage facility that's pretty attractive.

I agree that abandoning old stores is a problem, and while this isn't solely a Walmart problem, it does seem that Walmart abandons new stores sooner then others do. That Target store you mentioned had been there for some time (15? years?) before it was abandoned, whereas the Walmart at Bowman and Markham was abandoned after something like 5 years. Thankfully, that center seems to have done okay since Walmart left; maybe because Walmart left while the land was still valueable, like you mentioned hoping they would do with the Chenal/Cantrell store.

Another thing about that Target store is that, imo anyway, that was a terrible location. I actually give Target credit here, because they were probably the first to try to develop Barrow Road, but Barrow probably never worked out like it had been envisioned after being widened during the seventies.

Other than that I have no gripes about Wal-Mart. They're just too easy a target in so many ways it gets old hearing the derision about them.

I didn't mean for this to be an anti-Wal-Mart thread, more of a discussion of what's going on with the company and how it impacts Arkansas in positive ways.

I apologize for going off-topic in earlier posts. I guess I forgot about your request to keep the thread pro-Walmart after reading the Brummett article, which I strongly disagree with due to the "woe is me" argument he uses. Despite all of my criticism of Walmart, I think it has certainly helped Arkansas in many positive ways, such as bringing in new business from out of state.

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I agree that abandoning old stores is a problem, and while this isn't solely a Walmart problem, it does seem that Walmart abandons new stores sooner then others do. That Target store you mentioned had been there for some time (15? years?) before it was abandoned, whereas the Walmart at Bowman and Markham was abandoned after something like 5 years. Thankfully, that center seems to have done okay since Walmart left; maybe because Walmart left while the land was still valueable, like you mentioned hoping they would do with the Chenal/Cantrell store.

Another thing about that Target store is that, imo anyway, that was a terrible location. I actually give Target credit here, because they were probably the first to try to develop Barrow Road, but Barrow probably never worked out like it had been envisioned after being widened during the seventies.

I apologize for going off-topic in earlier posts. I guess I forgot about your request to keep the thread pro-Walmart after reading the Brummett article, which I strongly disagree with due to the "woe is me" argument he uses. Despite all of my criticism of Walmart, I think it has certainly helped Arkansas in many positive ways, such as bringing in new business from out of state.

One way that Wal-Mart has helped is with their tie-in to Murphy Oil. They really helped propel Murphy Oil into the Fortune 500 and it has really shot up the ranks since then.

It's funny, somebody was mentioning purchasing televisions, etc. If you live in Morrilton or Monticello you go to Wal-Mart to buy your television or VCR. If you live in Little Rock or Dallas that's the last place you go. Best Buy, Circuit City, etc win out every time on selection and prices are comparable. It's much easier to get in and out and you actually get help getting large items into your vehicle at the others. That's why Wal-Mart is such a big company - in small towns it's the best electronics store, best grocery, best home improvement store, etc.

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I've owned a number of different TVs over the decades and the only one that I actually had trouble with was the Sony. IMO, they are not worth the premium you pay for just the name. I recommend buying strictly on price as otherwise there isn't any difference in the components used in TVs anymore and the best buys are the ones with the off names. Many times they are made in exactly the same factories as the name brands.

The model I purhased (2005 model), LCD rear-projection HDTV seemed to be a popular model and rated well in many sites and didn't have much complaints from techies and forums.

...Although that's a different perspective I had on Sony. I'll keep that in the back of my head.

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It's not about what I want them to look like. I'm just saying that some people consider their stores to be eyesores and I assume this is the reason why their newer buildings are intended to be more aesthetically pleasing. Personally, I don't think that's unreasonable.

If you want to argue that their older stores are eyesores, then I might go along with that. Sometimes in little towns in Arkansas you can still find those old brown Wal-Marts with the old tyme Western font style.

I can only speak from my own experiences, but I don't consider gigantic parking lots that are full of cars to be very convenient. Shopping malls aren't very convenient either, but they're not supposed to be either. And when I said they were inconvenient, I wasn't implying that their stores were in bad locations.

But if that's how you measure inconvenience, then smaller parking lots (and thus, smaller stores) are more convenient? Or perhaps even larger parking lots so that it isn't as "full of cars"? I don't see that being a rational argument.

The ultimate convenience for me is to have no lines at checkout and no cars parked near the front. Successful stores rarely exhibit such "conveniences" then.

Unless you measure convenience of Wal-Marts versus older, "mom-and-pop" stores. Heck, if there was a mom-and-pop store nearby that offerred most of what I need (everyday-type items), at decent prices (I'm not too picky), but had ample parking during typical peak hours of the day, then I would definitely consider going there instead. But I don't know of any. I might have to go to a drug store, then a grocery store, then an electronics store, then an automotive store. That doesn't sound convenient.

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If you want to argue that their older stores are eyesores, then I might go along with that. Sometimes in little towns in Arkansas you can still find those old brown Wal-Marts with the old tyme Western font style.

But if that's how you measure inconvenience, then smaller parking lots (and thus, smaller stores) are more convenient? Or perhaps even larger parking lots so that it isn't as "full of cars"? I don't see that being a rational argument.

The ultimate convenience for me is to have no lines at checkout and no cars parked near the front. Successful stores rarely exhibit such "conveniences" then.

Unless you measure convenience of Wal-Marts versus older, "mom-and-pop" stores. Heck, if there was a mom-and-pop store nearby that offerred most of what I need (everyday-type items), at decent prices (I'm not too picky), but had ample parking during typical peak hours of the day, then I would definitely consider going there instead. But I don't know of any. I might have to go to a drug store, then a grocery store, then an electronics store, then an automotive store. That doesn't sound convenient.

Yes, I am measuring the convenience of Walmarts to smaller, "mom-and-pop" type stores that are often locally-owned and operated. The reason they don't exist much anymore is because of Walmart and other big-box retailers. The appreciation for such stores is one reason why Walgreens has successfully revitalized it's business model and I suspect why Walmart has introduced the smaller stores mentioned elsewhere in this thread, which I hadn't heard about until I read the post that mentioned them.

As for smaller stores not having the "convenience" of a one-stop big-box, I much prefer it that way for multiple reasons. One of these reasons is because I think it vitalizes local economies by spreading more money locally and among various places, rather then to a single behemoth big-box retailer that will usually take their profits out of state. And when I do visit Walmart, I find that it's usually only for a single item, even if they do offer other things that I'm looking to buy, because there are things that I'd never buy at Walmart, similar to some of the examples given elsewhere in this thread.. Besides, it doesn't seem like driving to several smaller stores takes anymore time, and it's certainly less of a headache, then having to deal with the lines of traffic at Walmart.

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There seems to be a lot of concern over Wal-Mart's old vacant stores sitting empty for years and bringing down the value of the surrounding communities. Although there's a large list of "big-box" retailers that follow this same trend there are more Wal-Marts than any other "big-box" retailer out there. I found a good article that was posted a couple years ago that explains the "vacant store syndrome" very well; moreso than I could word it. What I found the most interesting is that there are many complaints about how Wal-Mart moving into a community drives other businesses out, when it's actually just the opposite. Many local businesses thrive on Wal-Mart being their neighbor since Wal-Mart brings so many customers to their own door. It's when Wal-Mart moves out of the community that businesses suffer the most. Just something to think about. Wal-Mart's "old stores" are handled by Wal-Mart Realty. For more information about Wal-Mart Realty go to www.walmartrealty.com.

Anyway, here is the article for anyone interested in learning more about how Wal-Mart handles their "old stores":

AJC on Empty Stores

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution has an interesting take (rr) on WM dumping its old locations to build Supercenters:

With all the hand-wringing that can occur when Wal-Mart decides to move into a community, however, the biggest impact in many cases is not when it arrives. It's when it leaves.

Wal-Mart stores are huge ? upwards of 100,000 square feet for a regular store, twice that for a Supercenter ? and when the company abandons one of those big boxes for a hotter market, it can hurt a community. That is increasingly happening as Wal-Mart leaves its old stores to build giant Supercenters, often just a few miles up the road.

The company points out that it is re-leasing or selling its vacant stores faster than ever ? in many cases before it even vacates the premises. In those instances, the new tenant moves in within a year of Wal-Mart's departure. But many towns have seen vacancies last for years.

Wal-Mart is certainly not alone in this. The list of companies that have abandoned big boxes in metro Atlanta in recent years is long and growing: Upton's, Bruno's, A&P, Kmart, Service Merchandise, Cub Foods and many more. But Wal-Mart is the biggest of the big-box retailers, so it is at the forefront of the debate. It has more stores that are empty, or due to be empty within weeks, than most businesses have stores: nearly 300 nationwide.

It's not the empty box that's a problem to communities, it's the other stores who were depending on the "traffic" provided by the big box. But again, the article has no recognition at all that these empty stores cost Wal-Mart $$$--probably a lot more money than they "cost" the community. Still, it does profile Tony Fuller, head of Wal-Mart realty:

In the middle of all this stands a tall, soft-spoken Arkansas native named Tony Fuller.

He got his start selling shoes at a Wal-Mart in Jonesboro, Ark. Now he's a vice president of the company ? and his ascension is not unique. Wal-Mart promoted 9,000 hourly workers into management positions last year.

Fuller now runs the day-to-day operations of a major Wal-Mart subsidiary, although most people probably have never heard of it.

It's called Wal-Mart Realty, and it's a big player in commercial real estate. Outside the industry, it tends to fly under the radar, because it has only one customer: Wal-Mart. All that Wal-Mart Realty and its 500 employees do is sell and lease vacant Wal-Mart stores....

The major question is whether WM is willing to lease or sell to competitors after it has decided to move. But most anti-WM activists don't understand that WM's new policy of selling to everyone just means that it only vacates stores that will not become threats if competitors fill them. Besides, if WM is moving out of a store, it is most likely an underperforming store; why would competitors want to move in?

Fuller said the deal with Home Depot shows that Wal-Mart Realty is aggressively marketing its vacant properties, even to competitors. "We'll do a deal with anyone," he said.

But some people who have dealt with Wal-Mart during relocations say that's not so.

Melanie Chen was Roswell's economic development director when Wal-Mart left the Holcomb Bridge site (she now works for a nonprofit organization in Atlanta). Firstly, Chen said, Home Depot is not a direct competitor with Wal-Mart.

"If Wal-Mart is calling Home Depot a competitor, then they're basically saying that everything in the retail world is a competitor," Chen said, echoing others. "There's not much overlap there."

When a real competitior, such as Costco, showed an interest, Chen said, Wal-Mart wouldn't deal. "They have one big condition: It cannot be a competitior," she said. "That much was clear to me."

When the Holcomb Bridge store was shut down in 2000, Fuller said, Wal-Mart Realty was transitioning into its new policy of leasing to anyone, so that property might have been an exception, he said.

"That was around the time when you saw the tide changing," he said. "I'm not going to try to kid anyone that we've always been doing it that way."

But even now, some people don't think Wal-Mart will sell or lease to direct competitors. "You won't see them turn [vacant stores] over to a Target or a Costco," said Norman, the author and activist.

Fuller said there might be some situations where Wal-Mart Realty did not lease to a particular retailer, but on the whole, he said, "We are much more aggressive today about doing those deals with our competitors, direct competitors." For example, he said, the company has leased or sold stores to Kroger, which compete with the food operations at Wal-Mart Supercenters.

There are plenty more articles concerning Wal-Mart's vacant stores at http://alp.truckandbarter.com/archives/vacant_stores/

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But if that's how you measure inconvenience, then smaller parking lots (and thus, smaller stores) are more convenient? Or perhaps even larger parking lots so that it isn't as "full of cars"? I don't see that being a rational argument.

The ultimate convenience for me is to have no lines at checkout and no cars parked near the front. Successful stores rarely exhibit such "conveniences" then.

Unless you measure convenience of Wal-Marts versus older, "mom-and-pop" stores. Heck, if there was a mom-and-pop store nearby that offerred most of what I need (everyday-type items), at decent prices (I'm not too picky), but had ample parking during typical peak hours of the day, then I would definitely consider going there instead. But I don't know of any. I might have to go to a drug store, then a grocery store, then an electronics store, then an automotive store. That doesn't sound convenient.

Getting in and out of a big box store is a pain in the ass. The place I go to pick up a few things now is Walgreen's. Obviously they don't have all of the things that Wal-Mart does but unless I need an unusual combination of things - air filters, cokes, popcorn, light switch covers, and grass seed, etc I have to pass places that are much more convenient and consume too much time. In Little Rock or Dallas I would have to pass Krogers/Albertsons, Walgreen's, and Home Depot/Lowe's to get to Wal-Mart. All of these places are easy to make quick in and out trips but the nearest Wal-Mart to where I live here and where I last lived in Little Rock (the one at Chenal and Bowman) are packed to the gills and take forever to check out. Every time I went there I ended up feeling somewhat frustrated and thought I should've gone somewhere else. The one at Cantrell and Chenal was a little better, though.

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Getting in and out of a big box store is a pain in the ass. The place I go to pick up a few things now is Walgreen's. Obviously they don't have all of the things that Wal-Mart does but unless I need an unusual combination of things - air filters, cokes, popcorn, light switch covers, and grass seed, etc I have to pass places that are much more convenient and consume too much time. In Little Rock or Dallas I would have to pass Krogers/Albertsons, Walgreen's, and Home Depot/Lowe's to get to Wal-Mart. All of these places are easy to make quick in and out trips but the nearest Wal-Mart to where I live here and where I last lived in Little Rock (the one at Chenal and Bowman) are packed to the gills and take forever to check out. Every time I went there I ended up feeling somewhat frustrated and thought I should've gone somewhere else. The one at Cantrell and Chenal was a little better, though.

When do you go to a big box store? 2pm on a Sunday? Then yes, it is a pain in the ass. Granted, I rarely have been to the Wal-Mart in Bowman, and even in Fayetteville I rarely ever go to the Wal-Mart near the mall because traffic is a pain in the ass just to get there. But going to a Walgreens, a Lowes, and a Kroger seperately doesn't sound as convenient than going to a Wal-Mart. I'm sure that's different to all people, depending on their needs, wants, tastes, where they work, where they live, etc. Maybe I'll change my opinion over time in this regard, but in my experiences Wal-Marts are, for the most part, convenient.

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When do you go to a big box store? 2pm on a Sunday? Then yes, it is a pain in the ass. Granted, I rarely have been to the Wal-Mart in Bowman, and even in Fayetteville I rarely ever go to the Wal-Mart near the mall because traffic is a pain in the ass just to get there. But going to a Walgreens, a Lowes, and a Kroger seperately doesn't sound as convenient than going to a Wal-Mart. I'm sure that's different to all people, depending on their needs, wants, tastes, where they work, where they live, etc. Maybe I'll change my opinion over time in this regard, but in my experiences Wal-Marts are, for the most part, convenient.

I tried to lessen the impact by going around 10 PM during the week but it's still a pain compared to any of the other stores.

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I tried to lessen the impact by going around 10 PM during the week but it's still a pain compared to any of the other stores.

So is Wal-Mart being such a popular store a pro or a con? I guess it could be both. I think Wal-Mart could solve those concerns by building a 2-sided building with parking and entrances on both the front and back of the building. Receiving could be on one side and the garden center on the other. It would also mean that instead of one streetside entrance it would take at least two or three entrances to accomodate the expanded parking lot. The parking lot itself wouldn't need to be any bigger, but it would mean less walking distance from the parking lot and a much easier time finding a parking space.

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So is Wal-Mart being such a popular store a pro or a con? I guess it could be both. I think Wal-Mart could solve those concerns by building a 2-sided building with parking and entrances on both the front and back of the building. Receiving could be on one side and the garden center on the other. It would also mean that instead of one streetside entrance it would take at least two or three entrances to accomodate the expanded parking lot. The parking lot itself wouldn't need to be any bigger, but it would mean less walking distance from the parking lot and a much easier time finding a parking space.

You know what, that's a very good idea. There's a Target like this (without the Garden Center) in a shopping center in NE Dallas that I go to on occasion and the ease with which I can get in and out is a big reason I go there. Generally if I go in back I can park right by the door.

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Not sure if anyone has heard this news, but every Wal-Mart employee by the start of next year will be required to wear a "Wal-Mart Uniform". The uniform is just a polo shirt with the word Wal-Mart on it, along with Khaki pants. So far, about 100 stores across the nation have been doing this since September.

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I think part of the reason for their higher prices has something to do with them doing more of their work in Japan whereas many other other companies do more work over in China where of course wages are much cheaper. I don't just stick to Sony but I've never had a problem with anything Sony that I've bought.

I don't know about Sony. I bought a Sony TV from Best Buy less than three years ago and took it back. They replaced it and like the other one it takes a very long time to come on and make a very loud noise when you turn it off. The response time with the remote is also very slow. By the way it was made in Mexico.

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Reporting from Grand Rapids on the Walmarts here:

They are really dumpy, even though many of them are less than 5 - 10 years old. We generally do a lot of our "essential" shopping at discount department stores, so we're not really retail snobs, but they are just in rough shape. The aisles are messy, the clothes are in piles, the floors dirty, poor lighting, they just look like flea markets. In contrast, the Target and Meijer stores are very clean, brightly lit, organized, and are constantly upgraded with new layouts and store displays (most of them at least). A few of the 20 or so Meijer stores in the GR Metro are old and need updating, but most of the others are in great condition. And it's probably why I hear that Meijer beats Walmart in store-to-store sales in this area, which Meijer is a comparable Grand Rapids based superstore chain. You guys need to pass that info along to Bentonville.

Back to you... :thumbsup:

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