Bikes, Blues, and BBQ

[mcheiss]

I question those attendance figures. When a Razorback football game is soldout at 76,000 and every hotel room in the region is booked, how can 350,000 have a place to stay? Even if 100,000 (which seems unlikely) camp out, that still leaves 250,000 looking for a place to stay. The figure of 125,000 bikes doesn't seem possible either. I've walked the Dickson Street area every year during the festival and while there are thousands of bikes, it's nowhere near that number.

I've read that those figures are arrived at by aerial photos right over Dickson and trying to extrapolate for the whole area. I'd like to see a more definitive count by someone who doesn't have a stake in the outcome. The festival has certainly outgrown that area and opening the Tyson Track center and Drake Field didn't help the pressure on it.

In a couple of years when the condo projects in that area are finished there will be enough pressure to push the festival away from there. People won't pay a million dollars for a condo and put up with that sort of disruption.

Don't forget about the locals zman9810. There's 400,000 people in this immediate metro and I know that quite a bit go to the festival. The 350,000 is also a number progressed over a few days, so it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility for 350,000 people to be here. Also, hotels in Ft. Smith and Tulsa were filled up not to mention the thousands of camp sites out in Madison and Carroll counties.

[Mith242]

I think what also is taken into account is how attendance is figured for each day of the festival. Either way I'm pretty sure the same numbers and methods are used in the other big bike festivals as well.

[masons_dad1]

Don't forget about the locals zman9810. There's 400,000 people in this immediate metro and I know that quite a bit go to the festival. The 350,000 is also a number progressed over a few days, so it doesn't seem out of the realm of possibility for 350,000 people to be here. Also, hotels in Ft. Smith and Tulsa were filled up not to mention the thousands of camp sites out in Madison and Carroll counties.

I find it hard to believe that of the 400,000 people that live in NWA more than a minor fraction attend BBB, 40 to 50,000 at best. There are more Hispanics in NWA than there are people who attend BBB.

[mcheiss]

I find it hard to believe that of the 400,000 people that live in NWA more than a minor fraction attend BBB, 40 to 50,000 at best. There are more Hispanics in NWA than there are people who attend BBB.

Did I say that all of the 400,000 people in this metro attended? No, I said that quite a bit attended, which is the truth. I was there and I find it completely possible for 400,000 people to have been there during the 4-5 day festival.

[Mith242]

So far I haven't seen anyone seriously questioning the numbers at BBB. I don't know if I'd say 400,000 though, I think the last I had heard it's probably closer to 350,000. The biggest bike rally has closer to 500,000 I believe and it's in a town much smaller than Fayetteville. That and I'm curious how many of you have actually been in Fayetteville, preferably on the weekend, when it's actually going on to see some of these numbers we're talking about? I have no problem believing these numbers.

[masons_dad1]

Did I say that all of the 400,000 people in this metro attended? No, I said that quite a bit attended, which is the truth. I was there and I find it completely possible for 400,000 people to have been there during the 4-5 day festival.

Right and like I said of the 400,000 that live here maybe 10-15% actually go to BBB. I personally don't know anyone who went and never heard anyone talking about it other than the noise and traffic it causes all over NWA. If even one person I work with would have mentioned anything about it I might believe it's a big deal, but maybe it is a bigger deal outside of NWA where most of the BBB people come from.

[mcheiss]

Right and like I said of the 400,000 that live here maybe 10-15% actually go to BBB. I personally don't know anyone who went and never heard anyone talking about it other than the noise and traffic it causes all over NWA. If even one person I work with would have mentioned anything about it I might believe it's a big deal, but maybe it is a bigger deal outside of NWA where most of the BBB people come from.

There was probably about 20% to 30% of people from NWA went to the event. And many were probably counted twice or even 3 times of the course of the whole event. Just about everyone that I work with went to the event except a few who were out on business trips. I went and I'm glad I did. As I said before I find it entirely possible for there to be 400,000 people (probably 150,000 all together) at the event.

[zman9810]

There was probably about 20% to 30% of people from NWA went to the event. And many were probably counted twice or even 3 times of the course of the whole event. Just about everyone that I work with went to the event except a few who were out on business trips. I went and I'm glad I did. As I said before I find it entirely possible for there to be 400,000 people (probably 150,000 all together) at the event.

Now that (150,000) sounds a lot more likely. It's misleading when you hear 350-400,000 and it's not made clear how that number was arrived at. I work downtown and walked the Dickson Street area the first three nights and had to fight my way to work Saturday afternoon. So, I guess I was possibly counted 4 separate times. There were huge crowds, but in a compact area like that it doesn't take that many to seem huge.

I'm not anti BBBQ, I just think it has outgrown that area and needs to be relocated with the focal point away from there.

[Mith242]

How crowds are counted is done the same way at all the other bike rallies and festivals, I do know that. The thing about moving it to another part of Fayetteville is, what if someone then complains about all or most of it being at say the NWA Mall or something? Maybe the stores at the mall could argue their business is hurt by it the same way some Dickson St stores are. I think one of the things that makes it a great festival is that it's located in a nice area of the city like Dickson, the entertainment section of the city.

[masons_dad1]

How crowds are counted is done the same way at all the other bike rallies and festivals, I do know that. The thing about moving it to another part of Fayetteville is, what if someone then complains about all or most of it being at say the NWA Mall or something? Maybe the stores at the mall could argue their business is hurt by it the same way some Dickson St stores are. I think one of the things that makes it a great festival is that it's located in a nice area of the city like Dickson, the entertainment section of the city.

Why don't they make it a scooter rally instead then there wouldn't be as much noise to complain about?

[Mith242]

Bill Underwood is still really pushing to get BBB off Dickson. He wants the mayor to take a stand on it and has apparently mentioned the possibility of a lawsuit. A while back I heard a comment from someone I found interesting. They said all this didn't matter because people were going to end up back on Dickson St, because we've set that up as out entertainment district and they're going to end up going there. I'm still extremely disappointed with Underwood. Instead of considering closing for a couple of days, and we all know he can easily afford that, he wants to push this into a potential lawsuit. Maybe someone else can sue for the problems the added people who come to the Razorback football games add too. Maybe we can make Fayetteville known for not only having strict building codes but also a city that won't support any festivals anymore. Seeing as how Mr Underwood only seems to be worried about his business and not what's good for the city I'd really recommend to everyone that you don't buy anything from Underwoods. Why support his business when he doesn't seem to care about a festival that helps draw attention to our great city?

[masons_dad1]

Bill Underwood is still really pushing to get BBB off Dickson. He wants the mayor to take a stand on it and has apparently mentioned the possibility of a lawsuit. A while back I heard a comment from someone I found interesting. They said all this didn't matter because people were going to end up back on Dickson St, because we've set that up as out entertainment district and they're going to end up going there. I'm still extremely disappointed with Underwood. Instead of considering closing for a couple of days, and we all know he can easily afford that, he wants to push this into a potential lawsuit. Maybe someone else can sue for the problems the added people who come to the Razorback football games add too. Maybe we can make Fayetteville known for not only having strict building codes but also a city that won't support any festivals anymore. Seeing as how Mr Underwood only seems to be worried about his business and not what's good for the city I'd really recommend to everyone that you don't buy anything from Underwoods. Why support his business when he doesn't seem to care about a festival that helps draw attention to our great city?

Have you heard the reasons why Underwood is against BBB? There may be something other than his business being affedted by BBB.

[Mith242]

Have you heard the reasons why Underwood is against BBB? There may be something other than his business being affedted by BBB.

NO, as far as I know it's just business related. Granted his shop probably isn't what most people at BBB are going to want to check out. Still you wonder if he tries. Many of those bikers have money. I've wondered if he just isn't doing all he can to try to cater to what they might be looking for.

Another problem I have with all of this is what happens is we start another festival and it becomes a big success? Does this mean we want festivals but only if they stay small?

[masons_dad1]

NO, as far as I know it's just business related. Granted his shop probably isn't what most people at BBB are going to want to check out. Still you wonder if he tries. Many of those bikers have money. I've wondered if he just isn't doing all he can to try to cater to what they might be looking for.

Another problem I have with all of this is what happens is we start another festival and it becomes a big success? Does this mean we want festivals but only if they stay small?

Then again you sure don't want Fayetteville becoming a tourist town like Branson, albeit a larger version of Branson. Some businesses may see tourism as a threat to their type of business whereas many businesses actually get their annual profit from these kinds of festivals. I prefer lots of bigger festivals, but those that don't interfere with daily life. How successful is a festival that is only enjoyed by tourists and not by the residents?

Personally I don't believe BBB should be on Dickson Street. It's not the right kind of festival for that location. Drake Field is perfect for it. Dickson Street should focus on arts festivals, music, farmer's markets and events like Oktoberfest.

[Mith242]

Then again you sure don't want Fayetteville becoming a tourist town like Branson, albeit a larger version of Branson. Some businesses may see tourism as a threat to their type of business whereas many businesses actually get their annual profit from these kinds of festivals. I prefer lots of bigger festivals, but those that don't interfere with daily life. How successful is a festival that is only enjoyed by tourists and not by the residents?

Personally I don't believe BBB should be on Dickson Street. It's not the right kind of festival for that location. Drake Field is perfect for it. Dickson Street should focus on arts festivals, music, farmer's markets and events like Oktoberfest.

People have said things like that but I don't think I agree. I think people enjoy being around Dickson St. I'm not sure as many people would come if it was placed somewhere else. That and I think it still could be hard to keep people from Dickson St because I think people are going to gravitate to our entertainment district.

[masons_dad1]

People have said things like that but I don't think I agree. I think people enjoy being around Dickson St. I'm not sure as many people would come if it was placed somewhere else. That and I think it still could be hard to keep people from Dickson St because I think people are going to gravitate to our entertainment district.

I guess it's really a matter of what makes BBB so popular. Could it be allowing thousands of leather-clad bikers to take over the city for a week? Due to reputation alone bikers aren't even allowed to stop in many small towns so when a city like Fayetteville hikes up her skirt each October it's an enticing invitation to live out their fantasy of being a Hell's Angel pillaging a small city.

BTW... the BBB website has their survey results posted for Dickson Street businesses that are for or against BBB. Here's a link to the PDF file: http://www.bikesbluesandbbq.org/bbb_survey_results.pdf. Only 3 businesses surveyed were against BBB. Underwood was not surveyed, or they didn't respond to the survey.

[Mith242]

If I counted correctly 57 for, 7 against and 3 neutral. Looks like a pretty overwhelming approval to me. But yeah Underwoods is certainly against. Mr Underwood has been the leader for the ones against it. But I'm not going to count it since he couldn't bother to respond to it. But still it looks pretty obvious to me most of Dickson St wants it. If we had a few businesses say they don't want Razorback football games up here are they going to suddenly stop? What if a retailer said the Race for the Cure caused problems for his business? I'm sorry but sometimes you just have to look at what's good for the city and move on.

[masons_dad1]

If I counted correctly 57 for, 7 against and 3 neutral. Looks like a pretty overwhelming approval to me. But yeah Underwoods is certainly against. Mr Underwood has been the leader for the ones against it. But I'm not going to count it since he couldn't bother to respond to it. But still it looks pretty obvious to me most of Dickson St wants it. If we had a few businesses say they don't want Razorback football games up here are they going to suddenly stop? What if a retailer said the Race for the Cure caused problems for his business? I'm sorry but sometimes you just have to look at what's good for the city and move on.

It was actually 3 against and 7 neutral, but there were 23 businesses that are actual advocates of the BBB festival. So, nearly half of the respondents not only are for BBB, but they actively support of it. A few that are against BBB don't have a prayer of getting their way. Majority rules. I'm definitely not against BBB, but I do think a large portion of it should be moved off Dickson Street without ruining the festival itself. Attendance may drop some, but considering last year's attendance I doubt anyone would really notice.

[Aporkalypse]

If a new motorcycle helmet law is passed it will really put a damper on this festival and motorcycle tourism in Arkansas in general.

At the same time, it is kind of ludicrous to have a mandatory seat belt law but not motorcycle helmets. The number of motorcycle deaths in Arkansas went through the ceiling when the law was changed a few years ago. In a hilly area like Arkansas where car vs motorcycle collisions are common on winding roads, I have to say I support a helmet law.

We'll see how this all turns otu.

[masons_dad1]

If a new motorcycle helmet law is passed it will really put a damper on this festival and motorcycle tourism in Arkansas in general.

At the same time, it is kind of ludicrous to have a mandatory seat belt law but not motorcycle helmets. The number of motorcycle deaths in Arkansas went through the ceiling when the law was changed a few years ago. In a hilly area like Arkansas where car vs motorcycle collisions are common on winding roads, I have to say I support a helmet law.

We'll see how this all turns otu.

I agree. Maybe they can change "Bikes, Blues and BBQ" to "Bikes, Blues and Bubbleheads."

[mzweig]

If a new motorcycle helmet law is passed it will really put a damper on this festival and motorcycle tourism in Arkansas in general.

At the same time, it is kind of ludicrous to have a mandatory seat belt law but not motorcycle helmets. The number of motorcycle deaths in Arkansas went through the ceiling when the law was changed a few years ago. In a hilly area like Arkansas where car vs motorcycle collisions are common on winding roads, I have to say I support a helmet law.

We'll see how this all turns otu.

I ride and most definitely support a helmet law.

[Mith242]

Sounds like Fayetteville is going to try to move or at least include the Square for the next BBB. I'm wondering if they're trying to do this to take a little pressure off of Dickson. Should be interesting.

[Mith242]

I mentioned this over in the Fayetteville topic as well. But it looks like Mr Underwood still isn't giving up on trying to get rid of BBB. It looks like now he's trying to get state politicians involved in this.

[zman9810]

At the risk of flames I think this a subject that a lot of people are going to have strong opinions about. My disclaimer is that I don't know but it is a question many people will be asking. I don't think there is anyway of knowing for sure but discussion is warranted. I'll also add that I know, like and respect many people who own motorcyles and I think BBBQ is an asset to NWA.

Was the incident in Eureka Springs tied in anyway to the fact that one of the largest motorcycle rallies in the USA is located in NWA? Eureka's rep as late doesn't seem though it would be attractive to a gathering of Hells Angels or Bandidos. Whether they should or not, a sizable number of people are going to make a connection between the two and the BBBQ organizers would be well advised to make clear that there is no way that something like that could happen on Dickson Street.

Eureka Springs incident

[Mith242]

At the risk of flames I think this a subject that a lot of people are going to have strong opinions about. My disclaimer is that I don't know but it is a question many people will be asking. I don't think there is anyway of knowing for sure but discussion is warranted. I'll also add that I know, like and respect many people who own motorcyles and I think BBBQ is an asset to NWA.

Was the incident in Eureka Springs tied in anyway to the fact that one of the largest motorcycle rallies in the USA is located in NWA? Eureka's rep as late doesn't seem though it would be attractive to a gathering of Hells Angels or Bandidos. Whether they should or not, a sizable number of people are going to make a connection between the two and the BBBQ organizers would be well advised to make clear that there is no way that something like that could happen on Dickson Street.

Eureka Springs incident

Yeah I'm not sure why Hell's Angels picked Eureka Springs. Apparently all this started because the Bandidos felt Hell's Angels were moving into 'their' territory. Apparently there are any Hell's Angels gang located in Arkansas. Of course maybe that's the whole reason Hell's Angels even came was to try to establish more of a presence. I do know the Ozarks seems to be many bikers favorite area of Arkansas. But I have doubts anything like that would happen at BBB. Although I suppose anything is possible. I'm pretty sure BBB stays very clear of any bike gangs. I suppose it might be hard to keep any from showing up, especially when you have that many people. But I believe these bike gangs are like others. They tend to wear certain colors or clothing that helps distinguish them. I'll bet they'll be keeping a close eye on these at this year's BBB. The Ozarks seems to be attracting all sorts lately. Wasn't the 'Rainbow Family' (I think that was what they were called) over in Newton County the other month?