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Devos v Granholm Debates

Devos or Granholm   34 members have voted

  1. 1. Granholm v Devos, who won the debate?

    • Jennifer Granholm
      23
    • Dick Devos
      11

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104 posts in this topic

The first debate was on tonite between the two gubernatorial hopefuls, which one won the debate tonite, and why?

(I'm going to withhold my answer so as not to sway the votes in any particular order)

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DeVos answered a lot of his questions with predetermined soundbites that had almost nothing to do with the topic. I knew that Granholm would come out being the better debater, but I didn't realize just how bad DeVos is.

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^I agree that overall Granholm came out the better man, so to speak. Devos certainly doesn't like to stray from his cookie cutter responses. I felt like everything he said tonight was straight out of his ads and that his closing seemed so scripted that I really sense a lack of sincerity on his part. I will, however, say that I was more impressed with him than I was before the debate.

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I don't think anyone (even his supporters) came in thinking DeVos would trounce Granholm in the debates. And, guess what? He didn't. At the same time, Granholm seemed off her game. But, even on her bad day she's still a better debater than DeVos on his good day. It really just depends how much importance you put into debates. Granholm easily won, but what does that mean? Is it really going to change anyone's opinion? I really don't think so.

However, as I said in the Grand Rapids forum thread, I was waiting for DeVos to surprise me. I thought he just plays dumb. He seemed just as aloof as usual, and just as mechanical. Quite a few times I thought he was doing a commercial, and the cheesy grins after EVERY response threw me off. Talk about disingenuous. I was also thrown off by the fact that he had Granholm cornered a few times, and didn't bother to go in for the kill. He didn't have to come off as 'mean' to do it either. He just doesn't seem very serious, at all, about becoming government. I see a nonchalant guy who doesn't seem to care either way if he wins or loses, and the last thing this state needs it someone that's not going to be committed to the job. I was surprised Granholm didn't bring up the fact that DeVos quit quite a few public boards he was appointed to, or never showed up to them altogether, in the Engler years.

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All I got from DeVos tonight was that he's "disappointed".

(I'd be too if I spent all that money)

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I think people only thought Granholm did well if they already liked her. I wonder what unbiased third parties would say?

You should add a choice for "No clear winner". I thought they both did OK in some parts and very poorly in others.

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I think people only thought Granholm did well if they already liked her. I wonder what unbiased third parties would say?

You should add a choice for "No clear winner". I thought they both did OK in some parts and very poorly in others.

The only problem with that is everyone would vote "no clear winner" ;)

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GRdad,

Biased or not, I think from a clearly objective standpoint, Granholm is obviously the better debater, but that is to be expected. Seriously, I came into it to judge only their debating skills, not their ideas since we already know those. I think it was clear that Granholm came out on top. It's always incumbent upon a challenger to decisively win in debates, DeVos didn't do that, which means he lost. He held his own, but that's not winning. For DeVos to have won, he had to consistently keep Granholm on the defensive. He didn't. In fact, the moderators were far harder and more critical of her than DeVos was.

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LOL, Michi. I love how he kept saying the allegations were "disappointing". To me that means "You are telling the truth and I can't say anything to defend my actions."

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Well, I didn't think of it that way, but you do have a point. What I was taking from it was that he was upset Granholm had nothing nice to say about him. He offered the same kind of jab at her, but she didn't respond to each one as being disappointed. That comes with the territory of debate, so he didn't have to keep reminding us. I think it was his way of turning a shot at him (just as he rightfully does to his apponent) into desperation and pity on her behalf instead of being held accountable for a completely valid accusation/concern/question/what-have-you.

And another thing I'm wondering is if DeVos holds Granholm accountable for what happened to Ricky Holland and Patrick Selapak "because that's the governor's duty", then does pumping millions of dollars into the corrupt nursing home ordeal leave DeVos just as accountable for what happened there? I think that's a fair question. Who knows...maybe it would be different if he only donated hundreds-of-thousands of dollars. ?? ??

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The nursing home thing was a non-issue for me. Regardless of how much money he poured in, the fact remains that he owned 1% of the whole thing. Though, it may be an issue if he was the number largest shareholder, which I seriously doubt with 1%.

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My impression was that Gramholm answered the questions from the mods directly while Devos sounded like a broken record with his political rhetoric. "Mighican needs a Leader" he kept saying. He never went into how he was going to fix this state's problems. One of my cardinal rules says "If I don't get direct answers to the questions I ask then I don't deal with that person." So that in mind if Devos continues his political rhetoric and Gramholm continues to give direct answers, then she'll get my vote and Devos will just have to settle in continuing to run Alticor.

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Just a correction, he doesn't run Alticor, anymore. He runs the company he started back in 1989, The Windquest Group. He retired from Amway/Alticor in 2002. Now, Dick's brother runs it along with one of the Van Andels, I think.

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My impression was that Gramholm answered the questions from the mods directly while Devos sounded like a broken record with his political rhetoric. "Mighican needs a Leader" he kept saying. He never went into how he was going to fix this state's problems. One of my cardinal rules says "If I don't get direct answers to the questions I ask then I don't deal with that person." So that in mind if Devos continues his political rhetoric and Gramholm continues to give direct answers, then she'll get my vote and Devos will just have to settle in continuing to run Alticor.

I agree with you on this...I think it was almost 35 to 40 or so minutes into the dabate before Devos actually answered a direct question. All he did was answer with "needs a leader" or "needs change". This may be the case, but what

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I agree with you on this...I think it was almost 35 to 40 or so minutes into the dabate before Devos actually answered a direct question. All he did was answer with "needs a leader" or "needs change". This may be the case, but what’s his plan?

As a native of the south (I have only lived in Mich for a few years) it makes sense to me that a real economy needs diversification...Atlanta has Home Depot, The weather channel, Hartsfield, UPS, Coke, etc etc (no one thing defines the city), all we have here is the big (becoming smaller) three. Granholm actually was able to spit out 4 objectives to diversification. all Devos could come up with was "we need change"...well duh...unless you have a plan...piss off. :thumbsup:

I went into it liking Devos...I came out supporting Granholm.

there still more debates to come though so we'll see....

Michigan isn't that non-diverse

We are the home of:

Whirlpool

Dow Chemical

Compuware

Kelloggs

Stryker

Border's Books

Lay-Z-Boy

Gordon Foods Services

Kmart Corp

Of course the "other" big three: Herman Miller, Steelcase, Haworth

One problem?

Up here in the midwest, two of those companies have their own city. Literally their cities probably wouldn't even exist if they moved to say Grand Rapids, or Detroit. I don't know why, but Dow Chemical and Whirlpool decided to found themselves in the middle of nowhere, and built a city around them (for the most part)

This is true of many midwestern companies, which is why I think we struggle sometimes to develop our cities some.

Sorry OT, and I made the topic! but I felt the man needed some info! :)

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Well there is obviously a problem...if its not diversity then what is it? Its great Michigan has all these companies keeping the state afloat, but it still does not seem to be enough to keep us afloat...I mean were dead last for job growth...

Maybe I should distinguish between SE Mich and the rest of the state...maybe the economy is great in Grand Rapids.

back to point, Devos had no answer...at least Granholm did...that was my main point. Hopefully Devos will have some answers in the next debate.

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It's really more of a perception thing than anything else. Ohio's economy is about in as terrible shape as Michigan's bleeding tens-of-thousands of manufacturing jobs, but they aren't the headquarters to as large of manufacturing companies as GM or Ford which grab headlines when they make cuts. General Motors was, and still is, a HUGE corporation. When they cough, you better believe we feel and hear it having them located in the heart of the state's manufacturing operations. If GM, Ford and the rest were all located in Ohio, instead, you better believe we'd hear the whole "sky is falling" mantra that Michigan has not only come to accept, but expect, and in an odd way, love. No one ever wants to seem to make the point that Michigan's economy is growing in almost every other sector outside of manufacturing. The days of not going to college and expecting a well-paying manufacturing job has been over for decades, now, and it gets me a little annoyed when people seemed shocked by the inevitable downsizing of manufacturing. The perfect storm's been brewing for decades, and everyone saw it coming, and every one wanted to ignore it from Blanchard to Engler.

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I think DeVos did really bad. For being such a big business guy, I'd think he would be better at public speaking, and on the spot thinking and all of that kind of stuff. He didn't give me the impression of the on-top-of-things leader-type.

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just imagine what will happen if Amway has family ties to the government.

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I think DeVos did really bad. For being such a big business guy, I'd think he would be better at public speaking, and on the spot thinking and all of that kind of stuff. He didn't give me the impression of the on-top-of-things leader-type.

I agree completely. I was kind of shocked to hear that he didn't even do a mock run-thru until Sunday night. His campaign team completely failed him -- although I also agree with a couple of previous posts that some of the questions were down right not appropriate for a Gov's debate.

I would be willing to guess his campaign manager is not feeling too good right now about future employment opportunities. He has has a billion dollar candidate trailing an incumbent with the worst economy in the nation. Not a great resume booster.

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Do you really think it's the campaign managers fault? You can slather make-up onto a pig until you're blue in the face, at the end of the day it's still a pig, if you get what I'm saying. DeVos just isn't a good debater, I don't think it goes anymore deeper than that. But, again, debates rarely decide elections, especially in a race like this where most people's minds were made up long ago. Debates are really for the supporters of each candidate to talk among themselves. There aren't many undecideds out there, and I think even of the undecideds, most didn't even watch the debate.

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Devos' best moment was when he responded to the Detroit Water Board question. I'll just leave it at that. :P

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Honestly, who cares? Both of these idiots will continue to run this state into the ground. Granholm is a Democrat. Devos is a Republican. What's the difference between the two. Who they get their campaign money from, thats about it. You know, that makes me wonder. Isn't Devos a freakin' billionaire. Why in the hell does he need to take money from other people. Oh, I remember, so that he can give political favors to those people if he gets into office. And then there's Granholm. What can I even say about her. Nothing good really. Engler may have been an even bigger moron, but she has had plenty of time to at least fix one or two things he f#&@ up with. Did she? No. Not really.

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I find that kind of cynicism just as ineffective in solving our problems as either of our political parties ineffeciencies, and equally as annoying. People that don't believe in, and thus don't participate in, the system have no right to complain. If one doesn't work with what one is given, then that person has no ground to stand on in their criticism. These people love to whine from the sidelines.

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Oh, I vote. I just don't see the point this time around, at least not at the state level.

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