Devos v Granholm Debates

[gvsusean]

A sample of 608 is enough to determine the percentages (with a margin of error) because of how the company collects the data. I'm not sure whether or not the article in the GR Press was a scientific poll or not, but EPIC/MRA uses an accurate model.

I'm surprised that women are lower than men in thier support of Granholm when you consider Devos' stand on reproductive rights. Maybe Granholm needs to focus a bit on his "anti-choice" view.

608 of, what, 10 million??? thats an accurate sample??

[RustTown]

Yes, it is. Really, it's as simple as that.

[hudkina]

Take a political science class. It'll most likely have a section on scientific polling...

[Veloise]

FYI: A quick search will show you that a lot of newspapers have a separate weekly religion section:

LA Times

Atlanta Journal Constitution

Houston Chronicle

Newsday

Charlotte Observer

Washington Post

Dallas Morning News

etc etc etc

Like the GR Press, many of them run it on Saturdays as well.

[RustTown]

There are quite a few that have a small religious section on Saturday. The Lansing State Journal has a page or two religious section in the Life section every Saturday. Is the GR Press's every day? Regardless, it's not really relevant to the discussion, if you ask me. It's not like any of these endorsements come as a surprise. The LSJ endorsed Stabenow for senate the other day, and I fully expect them to endorse Granholm anyday now. It's just not surprising.

[snoogit]

Next debate is coming up, sounds like its going to focus on issues other then jobs. (which pertains to what 7% of the Michigan population? )

What issues would you like to see discussed in the next debate? (besides jobs and economy)

[francishsu]

Next debate is coming up, sounds like its going to focus on issues other then jobs. (which pertains to what 7% of the Michigan population? )

What issues would you like to see discussed in the next debate? (besides jobs and economy)

[RustTown]

This debate is playing exactly like the other one's...unfortunately. DeVos is still "disappointed" and Granholm is still repeating herself. *yawn* Though, DeVos is absolutely giddy or hyper, I can't decide which one. BTW, is it just me, or is DeVos recieving most of the rebuttals/last words for each of these issues?

[GRDadof3]

There are quite a few that have a small religious section on Saturday. The Lansing State Journal has a page or two religious section in the Life section every Saturday. Is the GR Press's every day? Regardless, it's not really relevant to the discussion, if you ask me.

[tamias6]

Okey my impressiion of tonight's debate.

Devos

1. Super overly hyper

2. Doom and Gloom but no solutions just like in previous debates

3. He needs a giant dose of shut the heck up.

Granholm

1. Laid out her plan

2. Gave clear answers to mod's and audience's questions

3. Has stated what she's going to do in next 4 years

Conlusion

1. Devos is a moron

2. I'm casting my vote for Granholm

3. Note to self: Don't drink so much starbucks unless I want to act like Devos.

[francishsu]

Devos' latest performance was an insult to intelligence. He had three opportunities to show how he was going to make things better. His first attempt was a disaster. In his second attempt, he showed backbone and went on the attack but provided little substance. Still, the undecided voter could be at least enticed and want to hear more from the guy.

This debate was his opportunity to show some concrete, innovative ideas on how to deal with our economy, health care and education. He provided none of that, and instead decided to stay in attack mode and ask the voters to base their vote on getting rid of Granholm. He provided even less substance than the second debate.

Granholm did have one bad point, in my opinion, and that was dealing with the question from the woman involved in the plumbing business. She engaged the woman in a conversation, but after hearing her background and problems, really had little to offer. (Sorry, the 21st Century Jobs was not the answer to her current dilemna.) Devos could have taken advantage of that and shaped the rest of the discussion accordingly, but he stuck to his script.

[RustTown]

That one audience question really did throw me for a loop, and I found myself asking if I was Granholm if I could have had an answer for her. I also found that example rather loaded as I'm wondering what did she want to hear? Did she want to her that Granholm would come to her house and give her family a check to keep the business going? Is it Granholms fault her familie's plumbing business isn't doing well, or is the plumbing business where she lives just not cutting it at the moment?

[GRDadof3]

I saw the highlights from the debate, and they showed that woman's question and the responses. That would be a tough one to answer. The governor's office really has nothing to do with individual small business viability. They can really only create an environment that doesn't impede too much on small businesses while still keeping things running.

[gvsusean]

after each debate I hear how Granholm laid out some plans for the next four years.... But, what about the last four years??? I base my decisions on actions not rhetoric. Hey Granholm!! fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me!

PS- to all of you who will say, "what did DeVos do?" My answer to that is, "nothing yet, he hasn't had the opportunity."

[RustTown]

That's another dynamic of a campaign rarely discussed and that's about those voters that will vote for challengers regardless of how good or how bad a leader was.

I'm personally voting along a "pro-urban" ticket. And, by that I mean voting for someone that sees the value of our cities in our state's comeback. I guess that will prevent me from voting Republicans for quite some time as very few Republicans see the value in our cities except to leech off of them from the suburbs. The truth is, Granholm has done more than Engler did in ALL of the 90's for central cities, and more than we could ever hope from DeVos (i.e. lets expand highways). Michigan, at this time in its history, can not support another candidate who'll be "soft" on urban revitalization and giving them the attention they deserve. That would really be the nail in the coffin for the state who will only succeed when its cities succeed.

I'm just surprised at how easily some just give our state legislator a pass when they are the ones that make the laws that continue to set up an uneven playing field between city and suburb. I can only imagine how much more effective Granholm could have been if the legislature wasn't so incredibly hostile toward her. If someone wants a Republican governor to match the Republican legislature and the Republican Michigan Supreme Court, I don't have much problem with that rhetoric as its clear if even I don't agree with it. However, it's quite disingenous to label her as ineffective and then personally vote for people that will work directly against her. You can't have it both ways. The argument of "ineffectiveness" from Republicans is so disingenous.

[gvsusean]

That's another dynamic of a campaign rarely discussed and that's about those voters that will vote for challengers regardless of how good or how bad a leader was.

[Michi]

Voting for DeVos is like him asking for your joined hand as we jump off the Mackinac Bridge. "Trust me", he says. "Everything will be ok when we hit the water."

DeVos sealed the deal in the final debate in that he refuses to ellaborate on ANYTHING. Like LMich, I found myself in that studio. Only, I was each audience member who would have aggressively stood up and asked, "HOW???" It's very convincing for some to hear DeVos as a so-called leader say "we have to get Michigan moving in the right direction" and "with my business experience, I will lead Michigan to compete against the other 49 states..." But there is no how. ANYBODY can say that and sound convincing.

On the other hand, he sounded very angry. His spokesperson is quoted as saying, DeVos is not held responsible for explaining the details of this plans. That is to be revealed at a later date. If this is the way the DeVos administration is going to respond to the people of Michigan, why are so many of the answers to questions using the citizens of Michigan as crutches in saying he agrees with them?

On the plus side, his last debate was his best. I thought he smacked around a lot, but all of his aggression had no substance whatsoever. Granholm would have disclosed of her information regardless, but I think DeVos could have sold himself if he actually revealed that there is a specific layout to his plans just like Governor Granholm's.

I want to hear it from his lips, not from literature on his website.

His only answer I was satisfied with was in response to the transit question.

[RustTown]

But, what he said in the debate last night concerning transit, and what he has laid out in his plan are two different things. It's quite clear Granholm is a fan of light rail, and she has done her part in supporting it where its feasible, and where she can as it is a local issue. DeVos's plan is namely expanding and adding more lanes to freeways. He was simply telling the woman who asked that question what she wanted to hear, as it was obvious by Granholm's answer (i.e. I hope for a clean, efficient light rail system for Detroit) pleased the women to no end as she smiled the the Chestershire Cat from ear-to-ear. DeVos knew this too, beforehand, and responded accordingly. lol

[Michi]

So, if that's the case, he needs to talk about his specifics for mass transit in Michigan...not just say he supports it. You have my full attention by saying the city/suburb ratio is way out of whack, now convince me. And he won't. I guess the one lady said it best...seemingly out of desperation..."I actually think the link to Bush and Washington is a GOOD thing." Why? She did not say. But of course she proclaimed this narrowsightedness after 3 debates of Jennifer Granholm expelling how negative of an impact Washington has had on the state of Michigan...starting from the cold shoulder we've received from Bush to meet with the auto companies.

Evil political conspiracy between DeVos and Bush? Perhaps.

[RustTown]

Huh? Did I miss that? When was that said? Not even your average Republican, today, would say that any kind of link to Bush is a good one. But, then again, maybe she's not your average Republican.

I sure hope Metro Detroit can jumpstart DARTA because Granholm if fully, fully behind it. It's now in their hands.

[Michi]

Hmmm...Now that I think of it, I'm pretty sure the incident I'm referring to was televised during Channel 7's 11 o'clock news. They interviewed the undecided voters that were in attendence and one of the ladies who was previously undecided was now decided and that was her reason for being in favor of DeVos.

Sorry for the confusion. I had to think about it for a second too.

[RustTown]

BTW, one of my favorite lines of the debate came from DeVos when asked something to the extent of if he took being compared to President Bush as an insult. His answer: "To be compared to any president of the United States should never be an insult."

Ok, Mr. Nixon... lol

I was really hoping him to score some points on that and utter what any smart Republican would and that's something to the extent that George is a good man, but that I'm my own man. That would have won him a lot of points with some of the undecides leaning his direction, but who are wary of his connections to Washington.

[gvsusean]

But, what he said in the debate last night concerning transit, and what he has laid out in his plan are two different things. It's quite clear Granholm is a fan of light rail, and she has done her part in supporting it where its feasible, and where she can as it is a local issue. DeVos's plan is namely expanding and adding more lanes to freeways. He was simply telling the woman who asked that question what she wanted to hear, as it was obvious by Granholm's answer (i.e. I hope for a clean, efficient light rail system for Detroit) pleased the women to no end as she smiled the the Chestershire Cat from ear-to-ear. DeVos knew this too, beforehand, and responded accordingly. lol

[RustTown]

Your single sentence speaks more words than you even know about the dynamics of this state. lol BTW, I seriously hope you don't actually believe that DeVos would lead the way on securing a light rail system for Grand Rapids, because quite frankly, he wouldn't.

[gvsusean]

Your single sentence speaks more words than you even know about the dynamics of this state. lol BTW, I seriously hope you don't actually believe that DeVos would lead the way on securing a light rail system for Grand Rapids, because quite frankly, he wouldn't.