South Fair Plaza

[uptownliving]

In today's Charlotte Observer there was a nice article on LNR Properties plans to build South Fair Plaza which will be an infill development comprised of 185,000 sq ft of Retail, 185 hotel rooms, and 685 condos. This will be squezed in between the "twin towers" of SouthPark on Fairview Rd. The old Eastern Airlines reservation center will be torn down to accomidate the new buildings.

I like this proposal considering that it is a better alternative than the current zoning of 1M sq ft of additional office space. This proposal would generate less traffic than office and at the same time it would allow people to live near and walk to all the amenities around SouthPark.

Here is the article on it in today's Observer:

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/bus...th/15673124.htm

[atlrvr]

This is where I was told Novare would be building its towers...as part of this development. I assume they still could be the developer for the two condo towers mentioned and the boutique hotel.

[Rufus]

I saw that at the end of the article it talked about the retail. LNR"s tom Creasy said that national retailers are already looking at locations in the SouthPark area. Is this most likely to be another upscale destination like everything around the mall itself, or are we going to see a pretty good mix of retail? Also I hope this doesnt turn into another food chain mecca. if that is all that is going to come along with a few retailers then cross this one off my list. Oh, well we will have to see when full reports are given.

[uptownliving]

So if Novare is still involved I guess that means this could be the 2nd location of a TWELVE in Charlotte?

[atlrvr]

I believe they were planning for some mid-box type retail that doesn't have an intown presence like Bed Bath & Beyond, Staples etc., along with smaller boutiques, but I'm not sure they are aiming for the high end.

Look at some of the mixed-use projects surrounding Lenox in Atlanta to get a sense of the target retailers.

[atlrvr]

It seems odd that there is so little reaction to 2 new 14 story towers.....you Charlotteans are spoiled

[rjp212]

So along with the 14 or so story hotel in the Live Oaks Development, that makes 3 new towers for the Southpark area. WOW!!

[cinco]

It seems odd that there is so little reaction to 2 new 14 story towers.....you Charlotteans are spoiled

oh, no... i am very excited about 2 new towers being added to southpark. i think the blase' response mainly reflects the retail (lowrise) portion of this development. this project looks so typical of what you see popping up everywhere... frankly, IMO, it's un-inspiring tripe. also, it's hard to even get excited about added density b/c its so expected in southpark. so, in that respect we are spoiled.... i mean... you know it's coming. the excitement for me is more about the design and siteplan... which this project doesn't do much for (i would like to see more renderings, though). all in all, i'm sure this will be successful in fitting the need in southpark...

i am eager to see the tower renderings... hopefully it's not going to be bland stuff you see in ballantyne. that is one thing i like about buckhead (and there ain't much)... they know how to diversify their office tower designs.

[A2]

The only thing that I will be a little disappointed in is if the towers are only going to be 14 stories. I keep thinking that since there is such a limited amount of land to work with in the entire SP area that a developer might actually look to do soemthing over 20 stories. Land is very limited in that area of town and if they really wanted to densify, the only way I know of is building verticle.

A2

[atlrvr]

As long as there is no rapid transit to SP, I'm not sure how dense the area should be.....now if I can get my subway line built out there, I'd feel a lot differently.

The big issue with the area, will always be the lack of connectivity....this site isn't too, bad as it connects to Park South as well as Fairview, but I would be much more excited if they would link it to Beverly Woods.

[A2]

As long as there is no rapid transit to SP, I'm not sure how dense the area should be.....now if I can get my subway line built out there, I'd feel a lot differently.

The big issue with the area, will always be the lack of connectivity....this site isn't too, bad as it connects to Park South as well as Fairview, but I would be much more excited if they would link it to Beverly Woods.

I agree atlrvr. The connectivity issue really is a problem. SP is really an island, and as such it brings with it its own set of problems. I keep thinking that mabey a "spur" from the light rail could be sent down Tyvola. I mean plop it right down the middle of Tyvola and Fairview and then.... vola instant connectevity.

A2

[StevenRocks]

I believe they were planning for some mid-box type retail that doesn't have an intown presence like Bed Bath & Beyond, Staples etc., along with smaller boutiques, but I'm not sure they are aiming for the high end.

Look at some of the mixed-use projects surrounding Lenox in Atlanta to get a sense of the target retailers.

I imagine it will be more midscale than upscale, too. SouthPark has plenty of room for upscale retail, but too much of it cannibalizes the market. Balance is important.

[DigitalSky]

I believe they were planning for some mid-box type retail that doesn't have an intown presence like Bed Bath & Beyond, Staples etc., along with smaller boutiques, but I'm not sure they are aiming for the high end.

Look at some of the mixed-use projects surrounding Lenox in Atlanta to get a sense of the target retailers.

I could see those kind of retailers coming to SouthPark. It's true SouthPark is oversaturated with upscale and moderate retail is still a little bit of a drive away.

[voyager12]

Is it just me or do all these "mixed use" renderings look the same? Aside from the height, throw in some birkdalephilipsplace in the pot and BLAM: give birth to clones over and over again. I guess it fits the overall preppy character of SouthPark. I hope the Morningside redevelopment for example, has a more funky style in keeping with that neighborhood's vibe. I also agree about the mediocre connectivity. Sure its accessible to the homes behind it, but like most of these "urban villages" there is no connection to meaningful mass transit and the majority of people still have to drive there and park in a garage like any other sprawlmart. Except they get to walk "outside" so its something new and revolutionary and "urban" It's no different than the fancy bigbox sprawl that is SouthPark Mall...just made to look prettier.

[uptownliving]

I have to admit that when I first saw this rendering I thought it was the Live Oak development going up down the road from this one. They do all start to look the same after a while.

[StevenRocks]

Copy of a copy of a copy....

[krazeeboi]

Well it's still something of a gamble to build these mixed-use developments to begin with from a financial standpoint. So very few will take a chance with funky, cutting-edge architecture--that's pushing it. People have responded relatively well to the traditional architecture, so that's usually what gets approved.

[atlrvr]

While not great....it really does open up the site....AND, it screens two huge parking deck with development.

The original plan had two versions, with the other adding even more retail where the green plazas are in front of the 6000 Fairview Towers....it would have been much more urban, but it obviously didn't make the cut. I think that plan also called for 20 stories.

If I remember correctly, it seems this development scheme falls somewhere in between the two original proposals, with the financial lender encouraging the lower density version because they were concerned about demand for retail and housing in SP.

[monsoon]

The only mixed used development in the county that looks truely different is Vermillion. It was a high quality development built in the style of an English village, but they simply couldn't compete with the McUrbanist places that Pappas and his imitators have been throwing up. So they have given up on the original plan and have now decided to develop Vermillion II around the original village which they claim will resemble Myers Park when finished.

I do agree these places look all alike, and I do agree that SP has big issues with traffic and access. I lived there in 1984 and it was a mess to get around then. I can't imagine what it is like now except that it probably has 4x-5x more stuff and no new roads since I lived there.

[A2]

drove the site today and only have one question.

Why bother with a 14 story tower (or two) when you won't have a view of anything? It will be too short a bldg to get any views of Uptown due to the size and mass of the Fairview Towers. The only thing you wll get a view of is either a tree covered neighborhood to the rear or a pair of two office towers in front of you.

I personally did not like the layout of the site at all when I visited today and really wonder why they are building it in a way that makes you feel "boxed in". There seems to be limited accessibilty and this will certianly make for a nightmare with traffic. I am all for building big, but I am truly wondering if this is the site that you do it in.

Personally I think Piedmont was done incredibly well. There is access all over and the design is top notch. The roundabout made for ease of movement and the nice center piece fountain really anchors the whole project. It is going to take a lot of reconfiguring of the site if this new plan is going to have success IMO.

Any comments...

A2

[cltheel.sdl]

It would be really nice if someone could take some pics of all the projects going up in SP. I miss driving by and seeing everything that's going on.

[Charlotte_native]

I don't really care, overall, for the "Southpark Living" style, but a lot seem to love it. I think it is important for any city to have many alternatives to bring in all types of people. I would never live in an area that was dominated and named after a mall, but am quite happy that those that want this have the option.

As for the architecture, overall I think a lot of the new construction in Charlotte, not including the high-rises coming in center city (Ave, The Vue, Trademark, Courtside) are all really patterned in the same vien. I do agree, however, that developers are being financially safe since it is a bit of a risk to introduce something completely off the wall and not "tested" in the market.

Kudos to all that have gone out on a limb -- the project on Central with the garage doors, Steelhaus, Skybridge (just for the bridge, the rest resembles other projects), The Grove.

I think this is a good use of space that otherwise looks fairly unusable.

[Arlyn15]

Any thoughts on what this means for the Fairmeadows neighborhood? Are they planning on connecting it with South Fair Plaza? Thoughts on property values?

[49er]

the site plan is now posted on the city rezoning webpage. Although its another trendy main street style development, it is certained a MAJOR improvement and really will add a lot of quality urban design features around the formerly suburban towers that exist today. interesting, looks that they are adding a level of parking to the garages as well.