Van Andel Arena Expansion?

[Prankster]

44 minutes ago, GRain said:

1.) There's  two Grand Rapids.  One that prefers the suburbs and is more or less terrified of going downtown (omg the parking!  omg the homeless people!  omg! omg!) and then there's the other set that has no problem going downtown and figuring it out.  The Whitecaps make the suburanists happy.  The Griffins make the downtown set happy.  So  in that light, the current arrangement  makes sense.

Being a lifelong resident (50 years), this sums this area up perfectly. 

[GRDadof3]

1 hour ago, GRain said:

Absolutely true.  There are very few people in all of the region that follow where the Whitecaps are in the standings, etc.  

As a relative newcomer to the area here's a few thoughts on the Whitecaps/Griffins dynamic:

1.) There's  two Grand Rapids.  One that prefers the suburbs and is more or less terrified of going downtown (omg the parking!  omg the homeless people!  omg! omg!) and then there's the other set that has no problem going downtown and figuring it out.  The Whitecaps make the suburanists happy.  The Griffins make the downtown set happy.  So  in that light, the current arrangement  makes sense.

 

I don't necessarily agree with this. I know a lot of suburbanites that go to the Griffins, and I know a lot of city-dwellers that go to the Whitecaps. Honestly I only go to either if tickets are given to us for free. There definitely are suburbanites who only venture into downtown for: a Kenny Chesney concert at the Van, a Laughfest comedy show, a Broadway Grand Rapids/symphony show at Devos Hall. But yes if they had to choose a place to go out for dinner, it's not downtown. Downtown is certainly not nearly as deserted (and somewhat creepy at times) as it was when we used to bar hop downtown back in the mid-90's. It was not unusual on a Friday night for our group to be the only ones on the street at midnight. Everyone we worked with (at suburban employers) thought we were crazy. 

I actually remember when ArtPrize was announced 10 years ago, my hair salonist and I were talking about it and she said "but it's downtown, ewwwww." 

But yes now it's popularity is driving other issues, mainly parking shortages and rowdy drunks. 

But then I know suburbanites who go downtown at least once a week, if not more. If you want craft cocktails and craft food, you really can't find that yet in the burbs, although that is slowly changing because the national chains in the burbs are all hurting from competition and over-saturation. 

 

[ironyisadeadscene]

I will say this. I was at the game yesterday and I forgot how the two bowls share a concourse. And that's absolutely terrible design. I don't know if a new arena will ever happen, but if they want to extend the life of the VAA and keep it modern, that's something they should address. Somehow.

[JoeSchmo]

2 hours ago, GRain said:

1.) There's  two Grand Rapids.  One that prefers the suburbs and is more or less terrified of going downtown (omg the parking!  omg the homeless people!  omg! omg!) and then there's the other set that has no problem going downtown and figuring it out.  The Whitecaps make the suburanists happy.  The Griffins make the downtown set happy.  So  in that light, the current arrangement  makes sense.

This may be true to a certain degree, but I don't think it is as strong as you make it out.  The Griffins have done a better job at attracting the younger crowd, especially with dollar beer, dollar dogs.  I would say the Whitecaps probably have done a better job marketing as a family friendly event.  So I suppose this may reinforce that idea. 

A good trip though if you live on the north side of the city, is to bike to a Whitecaps game from Riverside Park.

[LaMas]

I doubt this is unique to GR - suburban people who rarely go downtown except for the occasional event. I'm sure one of you could come up with a study for Chicago, for example, of how many suburbanites go downtown 1x/year, 3x/year, monthly, weekly, etc. (Non-work related)

[GrSportsGuy]

The Whitecaps moving downtown is not as simple as getting a new ballpark. The owners are not likely to do that since they own the stadium and the parking lot. This was brought up a few years ago when John Wheeler floated the idea of putting a stadium when the theater is now being built.

[egrguy]

12 hours ago, GrSportsGuy said:

The Whitecaps moving downtown is not as simple as getting a new ballpark. The owners are not likely to do that since they own the stadium and the parking lot. This was brought up a few years ago when John Wheeler floated the idea of putting a stadium when the theater is now being built.

I thought it was the Padnos site that was "rumored" for a ballpark, or was that for a GVSU DT football stadium?

[GRDadof3]

2 hours ago, egrguy said:

I thought it was the Padnos site that was "rumored" for a ballpark, or was that for a GVSU DT football stadium?

That was the rumored GVSU football and soccer stadium. 

[walker]

Not really about VanAndel (but then neither are the posts above about the whitecaps,) the Detroit News today has an article about the G league basketball team, the Drive, moving to Detroit if Wayne State builds an arena:

DETROIT NEWS: wayne-state-university-to-consider-proposal-25-million-athletic-complex 

[Pattmost20]

46 minutes ago, walker said:

Not really about VanAndel (but then neither are the posts above about the whitecaps,) the Detroit News today has an article about the G league basketball team, the Drive, moving to Detroit if Wayne State builds an arena:

DETROIT NEWS: wayne-state-university-to-consider-proposal-25-million-athletic-complex 

Owner's of The Drive have been looking to sell or move for a while. In my opinion College Hoops are too much competition for any minor league basketball to thrive. It makes sense just to have them in the same city as the parent team as a feeder team.

[egrguy]

To make it VAA related and to follow up on your post about college basketball... GVSU basketball averaged over 1300 per game on campus.  I'd think that they could draw better if they played at the VAA and widen their net audience to come (like me who enjoys college basketball).  Has there ever been talk of playing  some league games at the VAA?

If the VAA could just adopt the concessions strategy at Mercedes-Benz Stadium we'd all be happier.

https://mercedesbenzstadium.com/mercedes-benz-stadium-cuts-food-prices-second-time/

 

[GR8scott]

11 minutes ago, egrguy said:

To make it VAA related and to follow up on your post about college basketball... GVSU basketball averaged over 1300 per game on campus.  I'd think that they could draw better if they played at the VAA and widen their net audience to come (like me who enjoys college basketball).  Has there ever been talk of playing  some league games at the VAA?

If the VAA could just adopt the concessions strategy at Mercedes-Benz Stadium we'd all be happier.

https://mercedesbenzstadium.com/mercedes-benz-stadium-cuts-food-prices-second-time/

 

Doubt a division to program would come close to filling the seats there. Just another reminder that G R. is by far the largest city in the entire country without a D1 program. GVSU is long overdue to move up and is among the tallest midgets in their division. 

Edited May 1, 2019 by GR8scott

[GRLaker]

23 minutes ago, GR8scott said:

Doubt a division to program would come close to filling the seats there. Just another reminder that G R. is by far the largest city in the entire country without a D1 program. GVSU is long overdue to move up and is among the tallest midgets in their division. 

Agreed. However, GVSU is run by and supported by people that would rather stagnate in the shallow waters of Division II than venture out into the unknown of Division I and compete with universities far more like them than their current D2 competition is. Grand Valley has over 25,000 students, has over 100,000 alumni, occupies a Division I-size campus in Allendale and several city blocks downtown, is quickly growing its health professions program to create higher paid alumni, currently operates as a D1 athletic program for academic requirements (above the D2 requirements), and in athletics they have won or come in second in the Director's Cup standings every year since like 2001 or something absurd like that. Any college that managed to beat them in the standings moved up to D1 the next year.

GVSU's current conference consists of: Ashland, Davenport, Ferris State, Lake Superior State, Michigan Tech, Northern Michigan, Northwood, Purdue-Northwest, Saginaw Valley, Wayne State, and Wisconsin-Parkside. The only college on that list that compares as an institution and  with enrollment is Wayne State - another college that has no business being in Division II.

They could move up to Division I (FCS in football) and be in the same conference as Illinois State, Indiana State, Missouri State, North Dakota State, Northern Iowa, South Dakota, South Dakota State, Southern Illinois, Western Illinois, and Youngstown State.

I look at schools like North Dakota, South Dakota, Cal-Davis, Northern Colorado, Grand Canyon, Incarnate Word, etc. moving up after achieving success in Division II and I can't help but wonder why GVSU is content with wading in the shallow end of the pool with all of the small private colleges moving up to D2 from the NAIA.

[wingbert]

50 minutes ago, GRLaker said:

Agreed. However, GVSU is run by and supported by people that would rather stagnate in the shallow waters of Division II than venture out into the unknown of Division I and compete with universities far more like them than their current D2 competition is. Grand Valley has over 25,000 students, has over 100,000 alumni, occupies a Division I-size campus in Allendale and several city blocks downtown, is quickly growing its health professions program to create higher paid alumni, currently operates as a D1 athletic program for academic requirements (above the D2 requirements), and in athletics they have won or come in second in the Director's Cup standings every year since like 2001 or something absurd like that. Any college that managed to beat them in the standings moved up to D1 the next year.

GVSU's current conference consists of: Ashland, Davenport, Ferris State, Lake Superior State, Michigan Tech, Northern Michigan, Northwood, Purdue-Northwest, Saginaw Valley, Wayne State, and Wisconsin-Parkside. The only college on that list that compares as an institution and  with enrollment is Wayne State - another college that has no business being in Division II.

They could move up to Division I (FCS in football) and be in the same conference as Illinois State, Indiana State, Missouri State, North Dakota State, Northern Iowa, South Dakota, South Dakota State, Southern Illinois, Western Illinois, and Youngstown State.

I look at schools like North Dakota, South Dakota, Cal-Davis, Northern Colorado, Grand Canyon, Incarnate Word, etc. moving up after achieving success in Division II and I can't help but wonder why GVSU is content with wading in the shallow end of the pool with all of the small private colleges moving up to D2 from the NAIA.

So you’re saying the “Laker effect” is too think small and stay safely inside the box?  

[GRLaker]

1 minute ago, wingbert said:

So you’re saying the “Laker effect” is too think small and stay safely inside the box?  

Yeah, pretty much. Leadership at GVSU is the person that says "why travel and see the world when there are so many great things to see in the US?"

[egrguy]

I wasn't even thinking that GVSU would sell it out, but even 3k a game is double.  Perhaps at that amount it isn't cost effective to play games at VAA.

[GRLaker]

As for GVSU playing at the VAA...I would love this. However, I do believe that a new arena is in the works on the main campus.

[demhem]

4 hours ago, GRLaker said:

As for GVSU playing at the VAA...I would love this. However, I do believe that a new arena is in the works on the main campus.

You are correct. A new arena is identified in their 2018 Campus Master Plan on the Allendale Campus: https://www.gvsu.edu/facilitiesplanning/gvsu-campus-master-plan-32.htm

[GR8scott]

3 hours ago, GRLaker said:

As for GVSU playing at the VAA...I would love this. However, I do believe that a new arena is in the works on the main campus.

If they moved up with the big boys like western, Oakland, or even valpo, they could schedule several good non conference match-ups a year, mostly on the road but occasional a big home or nuetral game at vaa that could fill the seats. The excuse was always the major cost of upgraded facilities but fact is they could play big games at vaa and the football stadium is already at Fcs standards so other than giving out a few more full rides, travel and having to pay coaching staffs a bit more to be competitive, I would think the visibility, as well as revenue from appearance and increased attendance would far outweigh the cost

[GRLaker]

4 hours ago, GR8scott said:

If they moved up with the big boys like western, Oakland, or even valpo, they could schedule several good non conference match-ups a year, mostly on the road but occasional a big home or nuetral game at vaa that could fill the seats. The excuse was always the major cost of upgraded facilities but fact is they could play big games at vaa and the football stadium is already at Fcs standards so other than giving out a few more full rides, travel and having to pay coaching staffs a bit more to be competitive, I would think the visibility, as well as revenue from appearance and increased attendance would far outweigh the cost

I agree entirely, and as a very active alum, I am pushing for it. However, I’m the minority with active alumni while being in the majority with passive alumni. It’s very bizarre. The closer people get to the school, the more brainwashed they are into thinking moving to D1 would be foolish and detrimental to the school.

Van Andel Arena would serve as a great venue for neutral games, tournaments, and could maybe even serve as a host site for the NCAA tournament with GVSU as the D1 host.

Edited May 2, 2019 by GRLaker

[54equalsunity]

And then this...

"We have no plans on relocating to Detroit."

https://www.mlive.com/sports/grand-rapids/2019/05/grand-rapids-drive-we-have-no-plans-on-relocating-to-detroit.html

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk

[Pattmost20]

9 hours ago, 54equalsunity said:

And then this...

"We have no plans on relocating to Detroit."

https://www.mlive.com/sports/grand-rapids/2019/05/grand-rapids-drive-we-have-no-plans-on-relocating-to-detroit.html

Sent from my Pixel 2 using Tapatalk
 

Probably because they want to sell, not go through the hassle of a move. 

[SupercityGR]

I go to a lot of Drive games. I would be upset if they moved. Drive have one of the highest attendances in the G leauge while the Pistons have one of the lowest in the nba 

[ctpgr34]

10 minutes ago, SupercityGR said:

I go to a lot of Drive games. I would be upset if they moved. Drive have one of the highest attendances in the G leauge while the Pistons have one of the lowest in the nba 

It sounds like most teams are moving to having the minor league team in the same city for the convenience of having players being able to practice together and slide up to NBA or down to minors easier.  I am guessing a NBA team isn't has worried about the profitability of the G-League team.

Edited May 2, 2019 by ctpgr34

[walker]

3 hours ago, ctpgr34 said:

It sounds like most teams are moving to having the minor league team in the same city for the convenience of having players being able to practice together and slide up to NBA or down to minors easier.  I am guessing a NBA team isn't has worried about the profitability of the G-League team.

I think you might be right.  The Detroit News this morning had a better article than yesterday's Mlive story .  From deep in the Detroit News article:

“There is a trend in the NBA that all G-League teams are within less than an hour drive of the parent club,” Tellem [Pistons vice chairman Arn Tellem] said. “There are some that are right in the practice facility. The reason is more and more G-League teams are becoming a true minor-league club where players are going back and forth all the time.”

So it seems the G-league might be evolving into a hybrid between something similar to onsite NFL practice squads for the parent teams and a college junior varsity team that plays other similar junior varsity teams, rather than what we normally consider to be the typical minor league model.  Might be that two and a half hours away is too far to drive players and coaches back and forth.  That doesn’t bode too well for the Drive landing a different parent team other than the Pistons. 

DETROIT NEWS: grand-rapids-drive-balks-proposed-move-detroit

Edited May 2, 2019 by walker
for clarity