Major Shopping Center possible for Daniel Island

[vicupstate]

Major Shopping Center project in Preliminary stages

This is by no means a sure thing, but the fact that it is being seriously discussed is impressive. Charleston is a pretty small market for either Neiman Marcus or Nordstrom. Of course, so is Saks 5th Avenue, and Charleston has had one for years.

I think this is a little ahead of it's time, but then by the time it is built and operating, it would probably be 2009 anyway.

I wonder how much of the tourist trade they are counting on tapping to support this mall.

[Jerseyman4]

An interesting project,

It will give the people of D.I. more shopping proximity but at the same time, generate a lot of traffic from North Charleston and Mt. Pleasant into the island to shop as well because of the new anchors that the lifestyle center is attracting.

[MikesLogic]

I was wondering when they would announce this, this has been in the works for awhile and will materialize one way or another. I think that area is ripe for this kind of development though and could easily support upscale shopping.

[Spartan]

Oh maybe thats the towncetner they were talking about. I was under the impression that what's there now is supposed to be the town center, but its very dissapointing. This would make a lot more sense. Looks good

[Charleston native]

This is great news, and a bit surprising to me. I had no idea this was the real plan for a town center on Daniel Island. I do have one problem with the drawing Mike added: it is not Daniel Island, South Carolina! What is it with people who live in my hometown...they think every different section in the metro area is its own town. The Daniel Island Towne Center will be in Charleston, SC...you know, the city from which they have to get building permits! This really bugs me.

Anyway, having a Neiman-Marcus would substantially boost the city of Chas retail market, for certain. I don't think they could have both stores there, however. I was hoping that Nordstroms would take over the space in Citadel Mall where Parisian was, to increase the upscale quality of the mall.

I especially like the idea of having a J. Crew, Coldwater Creek, and PF Changs! I was wondering if Chas would ever start getting the upscale chains. First Ruth's Chris, now PF Changs...maybe the Cheesecake Factory is following?

[vicupstate]

Cheesecake Factory and PF Chang's tend to locate together, so I wouldn't be surprised.

As for Neiman Marcus and Nordstrom's, I still have a wait and see attitude. Jacksonville has been wanting them for years, and may get one or both in the near future. The mere fact that it has taken a larger city so long, makes me hesitant to believe Charleston is ready for them. I hope they do open there though. It would definitely add some prestige to CHarleston to get either one, let alone both.

If they both open in Charleston, it would have to be at this new project. They serve the same market, and would not consider going to separate centers. Plus the income demographics of Daniel Island/Mt. Pleasant are much closer to what they need than West Ashley.

My guess is that this center will not get either for a while yet, and will open in phases. When it does get one, it may only be one, not both. It will be interesting to see it unfold.

The City will receive a huge monetary windfall from this in property taxes and business licenses.

[Charleston native]

You're right vic, especially from what we've talked about in the Jax forum. As far as this center being built, there is an excellent chance that this center will be built in phases. Hill Partners has also been a major player in the Village at Sandhills development in NE Cola, which is 5 minutes from my house. This center is slowly being built with Phase 2 still under construction. The company's logic is that by building in phases, the regional retail economy will acclimate to the presence of the new mall and not significantly effect other shopping areas.

As weird as this sounds, this mentality is proving them right and wrong. The response for the village along Two Notch Road has been incredible with new stores like Lowe's, Kohl's, and Circuit City being built. However, Columbia Place, which is closer to the central part of town, seems to be dying. The high crime along Decker Blvd., might be aggravating the problem, but the Village is taking away Cola Place's relevance.

I would be worried about the potential the Daniel Island Center has on affecting Mt. Pleasant's Center. Northwoods and Citadel Malls would be the least affected, but we also must consider the new Tanger Outlet mall at Centre Point. Daniel Island Co. must be careful not to saturate the market with too many retail centers.

[tablrock]

of course chuck town can support a nordies and needless markups u silly rabbits. mabe not at the same time but both could happen over time. i'm very excited about this. it makes my WEEK.

[DigitalSky]

This is a really cool and upscale looking project, however can it be supported being 12 miles outside downtown Charleston?

[mcashlv]

Looks like a typical mall, a vista of parking lots.

I was wondering when they would announce this, this has been in the works for awhile and will materialize one way or another. I think that area is ripe for this kind of development though and could easily support upscale shopping.

[krazeeboi]

This is a really cool and upscale looking project, however can it be supported being 12 miles outside downtown Charleston?

I think so. There are areas outside of downtown Charleston that are growing in affluence.

Mcashlv, you're right about all the parking lots. Daniel Island has a chance to do development right; I hope they seize the opportunity.

[SimCity]

I definitely agree with Krazeeboi on this. If there's any city in SC with outliers of affluence beyond downtown it would be Charleston with places like Kiawah and Seabrook Island, Sullivans and Daniel Island, Mt. Pleasant and the Isle of Palms. Charleston can support this thing and use it to draw even more visitors from surrounding regions.

I think so. There are areas outside of downtown Charleston that are growing in affluence.

Mcashlv, you're right about all the parking lots. Daniel Island has a chance to do development right; I hope they seize the opportunity.

[803metlife]

This is a really cool and upscale looking project, however can it be supported being 12 miles outside downtown Charleston?

Like someone said earlier if any s.c. city can pull this off it would be Charleston. Columbia nor Greenville is ready for something on this scale. Even though I think Nordstroms is highly overrated

[Jerseyman4]

.........can it be supported being 12 miles outside downtown Charleston?

Mt Pleasant and Daniel Island, with their growing populations, are able to support this pretty well. Runners up would be N Charleston and Summerville but also, the tourism also adds in support since its year round and its conviently off I-526.

Some Facts

Mt Pleasant Household Income

$61,054 (year 2000)

Percentage of population with a bachelor's degree or higher, is above state average.

Source

[SimCity]

.....Speaking of tourism, we must not forget about the many well-heeled Family Circle Cup visitors and the publicity Charleston receives from it.

Mt Pleasant and Daniel Island, with their growing populations, are able to support this pretty well. Runners up would be N Charleston and Summerville but also, the tourism also adds in support since its year round and its conviently off I-526.

Some Facts

Mt Pleasant Household Income

$61,054 (year 2000)

Percentage of population with a bachelor's degree or higher, is above state average.

Source

[DigitalSky]

You know, looking at the plan, it is reminiscent of The Bridges at Mint Hill

[Charleston native]

SimCity provides an excellent point. Tourism in the city is not limited to just downtown. Also, do not forget the type of demographic that mostly lives on Daniel Island in the city and Mt. Pleasant. This group has high spending power; the houses on Daniel Island alone are at least $400,000 or more. I think the specific area on DI can support it, but my worry is what about other retail centers in the metro area?

The city of Chas has two other retail centers: DT and West Ashley. The north area has two with Northwoods and Tanger Outlets, and Mt. P has its Town Center. I would be concerned about the impact another retail center would bring on these other sections of the city.

Mcashlv, where are people going to park if we don't have these lots? Unfortunately, the lots are indicative of the type of development that Hill Partners seems to love to build. Village at Sandhill has a sea of parking lots surrounding it with only some streetside parking, and there are so many handicapped spaces streetside, most people have to leave many open spaces for the huge lot sitting behind the facade of stores. DI Town Center could have a parking garage, but what would the developers do with the extra land? Build more stores? In development, maximizing land usage becomes a balancing act with building too much retail space, and this is probably the reason for having parking lots rather than a central parking garage.

[lsgchas]

Mcashlv, where are people going to park if we don't have these lots? Unfortunately, the lots are indicative of the type of development that Hill Partners seems to love to build. Village at Sandhill has a sea of parking lots surrounding it with only some streetside parking, and there are so many handicapped spaces streetside, most people have to leave many open spaces for the huge lot sitting behind the facade of stores. DI Town Center could have a parking garage, but what would the developers do with the extra land? Build more stores? In development, maximizing land usage becomes a balancing act with building too much retail space, and this is probably the reason for having parking lots rather than a central parking garage.

I'm not surprised or really turned off that there are a lot of parking lots in a retail development like this. What's not right is the developers calling this thing a town square, Daniel Island's "downtown," or whatever else. It's not that by a long shot, and these guys should give us a break and just call it what it is: a new version of Mt. Pleasant's Town Centre with real apartments above the stores instead of fake ones.

[Charleston native]

^ You nailed it, precisely. The "Town Center" is basically going to be an upscale Mt. P Towne Center, only located in the city of Chas. Of course, the city wants it to increase their share of retail revenue. Let me clarify my opinion, though: I do fully support this development...it would be nice if it was a little different.

No matter where you go in my hometown, many planners and city leaders seem to be cowardly in creating a true urban center. Notice no one has suggested tall office buildings for "downtown DI", nor can they now since that ridiculous ordinance has passed. I think many leaders are afraid to build a bold urban development, even Clement with the Magnolia project.

[krazeeboi]

The Bridges at Mint Hill schematic does indeed show that this is a typical development, just with upscale stores.

Charleston_native, I will say that the one exception that I've noticed is, suprisingly, Wal-Mart--the one that I've heard about on here that is being buillt in somewhat of an urban fashion somewhere in the metro area. Somebody needs to get some pictures.

[Jerseyman4]

^Somewhere over in West Ashley, near Rittenburg Blvd i think?

[lsgchas]

the one exception that I've noticed is, suprisingly, Wal-Mart--the one that I've heard about on here that is being buillt in somewhat of an urban fashion somewhere in the metro area. Somebody needs to get some pictures.

I have no idea why Daniel Island doesn't go in the same direction as the Bees Ferry circle (the area you're refering to). The Daniel Island company controls the real estate, and they could really build an urban center themselves. Just do it the old-fashioned way: come up with a street plan, set aside some choice real estate for parks, churches, and civic buildings, and then let developers come up with ways to fill the individual parcels. This is more or less what Charleston did with the Bees Ferry circle (where the Wal-Mart is). Or I should say, they did this after Dana Beach challenged them to make the area into something special (why does nothing progressive in this town seem to get done without him pushing for it first?) But in Daniel Island's case, they went to a Las Vegas convention of all places and got sold on some "concept" being pushed by a company with a sort of New Urbanist, feel good sales pitch covering up the same old plastic-land blah. It's no wonder people are fed up with the way civic planning is being done these days.

[knightrider162]

^Somewhere over in West Ashley, near Rittenburg Blvd i think?

Its on Glenn McConnel Parkway @ Bees Ferry road

All I can find is the small picture on the city of charleston's page

[Charleston native]

...Charleston_native, I will say that the one exception that I've noticed is, suprisingly, Wal-Mart--the one that I've heard about on here that is being buillt in somewhat of an urban fashion somewhere in the metro area. Somebody needs to get some pictures.

The Wal-Mart you're referring to is indeed finished as knight pointed out located at Bees Ferry and Glenn McConnell. It was built on one corner of the intersection, becoming the starting point of a traffic circle that will be a major retail area when completed. The store is incredible, you would never have guessed that it is a Wal-Mart. I imagine that the entire development, when completed, will be quite impressive.

[digital_sandlapper]

SimCity provides an excellent point. Tourism in the city is not limited to just downtown. Also, do not forget the type of demographic that mostly lives on Daniel Island in the city and Mt. Pleasant. This group has high spending power; the houses on Daniel Island alone are at least $400,000 or more. I think the specific area on DI can support it, but my worry is what about other retail centers in the metro area?

The city of Chas has two other retail centers: DT and West Ashley. The north area has two with Northwoods and Tanger Outlets, and Mt. P has its Town Center. I would be concerned about the impact another retail center would bring on these other sections of the city.

Mcashlv, where are people going to park if we don't have these lots? Unfortunately, the lots are indicative of the type of development that Hill Partners seems to love to build. Village at Sandhill has a sea of parking lots surrounding it with only some streetside parking, and there are so many handicapped spaces streetside, most people have to leave many open spaces for the huge lot sitting behind the facade of stores. DI Town Center could have a parking garage, but what would the developers do with the extra land? Build more stores? In development, maximizing land usage becomes a balancing act with building too much retail space, and this is probably the reason for having parking lots rather than a central parking garage.

The parking should be BEHIND the buildings--in the center. (Why is this such a difficult concept for developers to comprehend?? Mt. Pleasant is doing it beautifully.) Pull the buildings to the street with plate-glass display windows to get the attention of passers-by. Make the new sidewalks connect to the rest of Daniel Island's sidewalks and bike paths. Put head-in or parallel parking along the street. Etc., etc. There are a number of things that can be done to make this more of a true city center.

I thought D.I. already had this as a "covenant" sort of thing for commercial development? . . . i.e., that new commercial development had to fit in with the design of the rest of it? Department stores or any other mercantile businesses should be REQUIRED to build in the commercial center of D.I. that has already begun to take shape. Just as in older towns, the stores should be DOWNTOWN--not in a sprawling shopping center reminiscent of Anywhere, U.S.A.

After all the trouble the City of Charleston has expended to make this suburban island more like a traditional town, and market it this way (remember the billboards?), it would be ruinous if they let this "sea of asphalt" happen without MAJOR revisions, IMO.

Neiman-Marcus and Nordstrom? Bring them on--just put them in line with the rest of "downtown" D.I. (or just put them where they truly belong--on Upper King!)