Downtown Raleigh retail updates

[RaleighRob]

A DT bookstore would be awesome. Anyone know if there is enough critical mass to support one?

Quite possibly. It would have to have a very good variety of book types though. Artsy stuff (poetry, fine literature) to attract the urban hipsters, but also mainstream popular fiction for the office workers on their lunchbreaks. Plus general reference (travel guides, maps), greeting cards and magazines to help bulk up the sales.

Downtown would be a diverse market, so a bookstore that specializes too much would probably not be as successful, IMO.

Edited May 2, 2007 by RaleighRob

[UrbanVenus]

I agree a DT bookstore would have to be diverse. Definitely a nice art section, become a McSweeny's outpost; best sellers and a great newsrack to attract the masses; cards (fancy/nice- not CVS) and maybe some gifts (stationary, whatever); info for tourists/postcards/etc would be great.

I think there would be enough people to support the store now: office workers, downtown residents, NCSU downtown design studio, museum/F St. tourists, then think of the convention center, new hotels and condos. It would be a great addition to First Friday- say...15% off all art books!

If the store has something to really set itself apart (without losing mainstream appeal, of course), non-downtowners would come to it as well. As it is now, I go out of my way to get to Quail Ridge, and even Regulator, just to support cooler, independent stores. I like to think I'm not a freak.

I hope an indy gets in now before the big boxes really start eyeing downtown. (Though I'd kill for an H&M!).

[ncwebguy]

What is enough "critical mass" to support a bookstore?

There are two Borders on Six Forks -- near Wake Forest Road and Strickland Road. There is a Borders and B&N near each other in Cary on Walnut Street. Yet there are *no* bookstores south and east of the Cary Borders/Quail Ridge/Six Forks-Wake Forest Borders/Ed McKay other than Reader's Corner and Nice Price on Hillsborough Street.

Does everyone on the south side of that line not read? Or are they happy with the selection at grocery stores? I doubt it.

How much space would a downtown store need? Empire owns the old Dollar Zone space, but I would like to see something smaller near the Hargett/Wilmington corner. Something the size of the Regulator could fit in the space between Wilmington and Blount below Cherokee, or something really small in the storefront near Times Bar. It seems to be the most active "after hours" area downtown during the week and on the weekends gives city market a run for its money.

This would be close to Exploris, City Market, and the Hargett/Wilmington area (Dos Taquitos, Riveara, neo Nemonade, Times Bar/morning times, Slims, etc.). It would be a bit removed from the CC district, but there will not much available retail space in that area for the next few years.

[Jones_]

For the sake of character, indys would need an old building while a chain would probably prefer space in the ground floor of something like RBC. The Wilmington/Hargett corner has announced its arrival on the scene...it is low key, and neighborhoodish.....I even find City Market falling off my radar when circling downtown to see 'whats going on'. I can't think of any Empire owned buildings with something other than a restaurant/bar or offices except the Bonded Warehouses...should they recruit harder for more varied things? I am sure Hatem would love to have a branch of Quail Ridge a block away....

[urbanvb]

What is enough "critical mass" to support a bookstore?

I meant is there enough housing, business - basically people - to support a bookstore. Sounds like there may be which is great news.

[ncwebguy]

Sorry, I should have been clearer with my last post. I know the *definition* of critcial mass, but was wondering what factors/number(s) are part of the "magic formula" to determine if critical mass has been met.

x₁ number of people (residents? visitors?) within a t₁ minute walk?

x₂ number of people within a t₂ minute drive?

x₃ number of workers in the CBD?

x₄ number of people with college/masters/doctorate degrees?

x₅ number of people that make m₁ $/year?

x₆ number of people that spend m₂ $/year on books, magazines, stationery, etc.?

And what have some parts of the Triangle -- 15/501, Southpoint, Walnut Street, Six Forks, TTC -- done "right" to attract stores that other areas -- North Durham, East and South Wake, Johnston County -- have not?

I agree with the indy = reuse old space and chain = new/sterile space formula. There are exceptions to the rule, but they are rare. Larger chains require standard floorplans to organize their larger inventory. The floorplans are easier to update if there are fewer of them across hundreds of locations. Independent booksellers carry what they want and can put it where they want.

As for restaurant/bar/office being the only downton tenants, there was a time when they were office only. In casual conversations, etc. it seems Empire belives in building the critical mass via

office -> restaurants -> coffee shops -> residential/retail.

The creating a sence of place at Wilmington/Hargett will allow for the other pieces falling into place.

How do Shaw students buy textbooks? From the State bookstores (Packbackers, Adams, etc.) or something on campus? When my sister went to UNCC, Barnes & Noble ran their student store, complete with news/magazine rack, etc. Would something like that, open to the public, work on Lenoir/Wilmington/Cabarrus?

[citiboi27610]

How do Shaw students buy textbooks? From the State bookstores (Packbackers, Adams, etc.) or something on campus? When my sister went to UNCC, Barnes & Noble ran their student store, complete with news/magazine rack, etc. Would something like that, open to the public, work on Lenoir/Wilmington/Cabarrus?

Shaw has an on campus book store, which is located on the ground floor (basement) of the student center. I believe the book store is one of their focus areas for the campus. The want to move it to a better location, along the street to draw in more outdoor traffic. With such a small school, I could imagine the book store is empty a lot. A nice bookstore is good for campuses I believe.

Upon a visit to Chicago, there is a small school downtown (i had never heard of) with a large Barnes and Noble attached to it. It provides a place for students to relax, read, buy books, but also for outsiders to enjoy the more public book store. I really liked the feeling, more of a library where you can buy stuff.

In Shaw's case, a bookstore would work well at the corner of Wilmington and South Street, which could be incorporated into a taller campus building, hopefully softening the barrier of the memorial auditorium as the end of downtown. Building on the block across the street might be even better.

An independent book store would be nice at Moore Square. For some reason I always imagine a future downtown library going near there.

[JeffC]

Any update on Capital City Grocery? Is it indeed going to be a "renovation" that turns into a "liquidation"?? Notice how the Ace Hardware learned from CCG's mistakes and parked several vehicles (including a huge Ace Hardware Truck) out by Peace Street announcing they were open?

[ChiefJoJo]

There are two Borders on Six Forks -- near Wake Forest Road and Strickland Road. There is a Borders and B&N near each other in Cary on Walnut Street. Yet there are *no* bookstores south and east of the Cary Borders/Quail Ridge/Six Forks-Wake Forest Borders/Ed McKay other than Reader's Corner and Nice Price on Hillsborough Street.

Does everyone on the south side of that line not read? Or are they happy with the selection at grocery stores? I doubt it.

Seriously! I have always wondered why there isn't one in the center of the city. That is something I'd love to see go in along Glenwood or maybe Fayetteville on a ground floor space.

...it would only make sense to have a great bookstore in DT Raleigh...something like Kramerbooks in DC or Powell's in Portland would be fantastic.

Been to Powells? It's really something. I believe it's the largest indy bookstore in the country. I think we could just shoot for something like a Quail Ridge or Nice Price, or something new downtown... as others have said, a place to pick up unique books, have book club, coffee shop, etc. I found some great deals at a used book shop on W. Franklin St in Chapel Hill. If we had something like that I could walk to, I'd be a frequent visitor.

[ncwebguy]

When I was thinking about Shaw, I was wondering how much use the open area on the SE corner of Wilmington/South gets. It seems most outdoor activity is in the field south of the dorms north of MLK along Blount.

I think getting rid of the fence and field would dissolve the sharp Shaw/downtown border that currently exists there. Putting the bookstore in that area would further dissolve that line. Shaw administrators were at the Site 1-5 charette a few years ago, so they are interested in being part of the downtown revitalization picture. If the nearby McDonalds could be incorporated and the land it is on would be redeveloped, even better!

The Exploristore at Hargett and Blount has some books and a cafe, but isn't enough to consider it a bookstore.

I went to Kramerbooks about 10 years ago and it was quite lively for a weeknight. The cafe helped, but that sense of place would do well downtown. I think it would be more at home in the "artsy" Moore Square area than the "party" Glenwood South area, but that is based on how things are now. Maybe if Morning Times moved down Hargett to next to Heilig-Levine, it could be a bookstore/cafe/meeting place. It will be a *long* time before the area could support a "mysteries only" book store like the one in DC.

Capital City Grocery picked the *worst* time to close for rennovations. Last weekend there was a big grand opeing party with hotdogs, a band, etc. and the whole Logans/Seaboard area was busy! Even Seaboard Fitness had a table set up! But CCG had the paper on the windows and "check back" signs. J. Betski's and Ace has attracted a lot of new people to that area who could have discovered the grocery store in the same trip.

In other Seaboard news, there is a sign up for Peace Chinese, which looks to be upscale take out and dine-in, a few doors down for Ace. But there didn't seem to be any kitchen equipment installed as of last weekend. And hair and makeup place Marigold Parlour now has signs up in the space next to Galatea, mentioned a few weeks ago in the N&O.

[RaleighRob]

Story today on WRAL.com about merchants on Fayetteville Street struggling to get business:

http://wral.com/news/local/story/1386824/

My guess is the fanfare from the reopening has dropped and people aren't spending money there much.

[RALBOI]

Story today on WRAL.com about merchants on Fayetteville Street struggling to get business:

http://wral.com/news/local/story/1386824/

My guess is the fanfare from the reopening has dropped and people aren't spending money there much.

What people? (meaning no one is living in downtown yet). everybody knows that the street is still a work in progress, for it to become a successful place people will have to live,work and play their, so their going to be struggling for least 3 to 4 years until some of these big projects get built, Fayetteville street is going to be fine once this happens you simply don't have enough people living there right now. Edited May 6, 2007 by RALBOI

[Gard]

Story today on WRAL.com about merchants on Fayetteville Street struggling to get business:

http://wral.com/news/local/story/1386824/

My guess is the fanfare from the reopening has dropped and people aren't spending money there much.

Well as the saying goes, Rome wasn't built in a day. Like the previous poster said, its all still a work in progress and it certainly won't change overnight.

[ChiefJoJo]

Did you know that 6 people live on Fayetteville St right now? That little factoid certainly shows the problem IMO. Retail follows rooftops, and once the people move in down there, things will pick up.

I was out on Sat night after midnight, and there were quite a few folks walking around. I'm surprised to see Crema guys complaining. I thought those guys were doing well. F St Tavern (Capitol Room) has never struck me as a place I'd enjoy hanging out, so maybe it's not always just the city's problem, as Big Easy and Yancy's seem to be doing quite well.

[thekitch]

6 people? Maybe 60? Or did I miss the sarcasm?

Anywho. In the 10 days I've been down here there definitely seems to be good traffic on Friday and Sat nights for sure. Times, Big Easy, Yancy's always have nice crowds. Fins had a small crowd at the bar on Sat night. Ok number of people at Riviera on Friday, was expecting more with the Helig Levine exhibit, but still not bad.

[RaleighRob]

I saw some new (?) place in City Market too....a cookie shop? I should've stopped longer to see what that was all about. It looked interesting.

I also saw that Tony's Cafe is undergoing renovations that will be revealed at the next First Friday. I'm curious what they're doing...it was already a cute cosey place.

I just saw a comment in raleighing that mentioned Tony's just reopened...but it's now a Coffee House/Wine Bar combo. Anyone know anything about that yet?

One reason I was sad when Cyclo closed was that it was about the only place that combined a coffee house with booze that I knew of. Looks like Tony's is now going in that direction...at least with wine. Sounds promising.

[Jones_]

I just saw a comment in raleighing that mentioned Tony's just reopened...but it's now a Coffee House/Wine Bar combo. Anyone know anything about that yet?

One reason I was sad when Cyclo closed was that it was about the only place that combined a coffee house with booze that I knew of. Looks like Tony's is now going in that direction...at least with wine. Sounds promising.

I walked by on first friday...it was not open for business yet but the doors were open.....it looked really sharp, and I think a great fit for City Market if they can get the word out....

[raleightransplant]

Seriously! I have always wondered why there isn't one in the center of the city. That is something I'd love to see go in along Glenwood or maybe Fayetteville on a ground floor space.

Been to Powells? It's really something. I believe it's the largest indy bookstore in the country. I think we could just shoot for something like a Quail Ridge or Nice Price, or something new downtown... as others have said, a place to pick up unique books, have book club, coffee shop, etc. I found some great deals at a used book shop on W. Franklin St in Chapel Hill. If we had something like that I could walk to, I'd be a frequent visitor.

I've been to Powells...absolutely loved it. I would certainly go for something like the Regulator in Durham or Quail Ridge downtown. That would add some vitality and street activity during the day.

[ChiefJoJo]

6 people? Maybe 60? Or did I miss the sarcasm?

No, it's actually 6 people, and one of them posts here.

One reason I was sad when Cyclo closed was that it was about the only place that combined a coffee house with booze that I knew of.

Check out Helios... they have wine and beer as well as coffee and stay open later on the weekends (midnight I think).

• The YSU office is open at 226 Fayetteville St, and they've got the RBC Plaza Condos model in there.
  
• Dos Taquitos is making progress on their facade... that part will probably be complete within a week or two.
  

[Cecil]

No, it's actually 6 people, and one of them posts here.

Check out Helios... they have wine and beer as well as coffee and stay open later on the weekends (midnight I think).

• The YSU office is open at 226 Fayetteville St, and they've got the RBC Plaza Condos model in there.
  
• Dos Taquitos is making progress on their facade... that part will probably be complete within a week or two.
  

I'm confused myself. I live on F St.... that's the actual address of the Hudson which is over 75% sold at this point.

[reed]

I'm confused myself. I live on F St.... that's the actual address of the Hudson which is over 75% sold at this point.

+ the condos above Fay St Tavern and the Sir Walter Apts & you have much more than 6 people.

[ChiefJoJo]

+ the condos above Fay St Tavern and the Sir Walter Apts & you have much more than 6 people.

Yeah, I forgot about the Hudson. I believe those were the numbers from 2005, with only the 114 F St units online at that time.

[thekitch]

Yeah, I forgot about the Hudson. I believe those were the numbers from 2005, with only the 114 F St units online at that time.

Hooray for us Cecil! We do exist!

[UrbanVenus]

Capital City scheduled to reopen in June! http://raleighchronicle.com/2007052208.html

I like the sound of appealing to home cooks with spices and bulk goods- hopefully they've consulted with people who actually cook! I hope they carry my specialty brand pet food- nothing but the best for my baby!-- but it sure would be nice for the best to be more convenient.

[JeffC]

Interesting article. The connection with the heritage of Newton's is a brilliant stroke...but unfortunately, I'm not sure there is anyone left who is still aware of the heritage of Newtons....I worked for years in downtown, and never set foot in the place...I didn't even know it was, or ever had been a grocery store. It just looked like a nasty-ass rundown restaurant. I guess as the Halifax Court area went downhill in the 70s and 80s, so did Newton's...