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Downtown Raleigh retail updates


Beth Y

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Frankly, I thought BBQ & Ribs had the best pig in Raleigh and I'm very sad to see it go.

I'll take your word for it, since I never ate there...though I doubt it was better than Coopers, and in any event "best pig in Raleigh" is not really a very prestigious title. It CAN'T be a really good barbeccue joint unless there is about a 1/4" veneer of grease on every vertical and horizontal surface in the place (except for the places the health department makes them clean), and this place wasn't open long enough for that to happen...

Every time I went there for lunch it was packed. Their problem at dinner was they closed at 8pm! I couldn't believe it one time when I showed up at 8:05 and the doors were locked. That area draws a late dining crowd, and closing that early definitely hurt.

I don't think Boddie-Noel gave it enough time. That place had only been open at most 2 years. There is no way they were losing money that fast unless rent there is unbelievably high.

Looks to me like they completely lacked understanding of the Glenwood South market...

ITB/West Raleigh needs a good barbecue spot very badly. (And please don't say the Q-Shack qualifies, that place is horrible and completely overpriced).

Don Murray's closed a few months ago. The only spots left in Raleigh are Cooper's, Barbecue Lodge and that place over off Hwy 54 in Cary.

Someone build me a Smithfields on this side of town quick.

There used to be (mid 90s) an old place off Old Poole Road just outside the Beltline. It was authentic (cinder block walls, hand-written signs on the walls advertising "chittlin' day is Wednesday" and the like). Anyone know the name and whether it is still there?

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There is a Smithfields near the Jones Sausage/I-40 intersection. I don't know if that is technically in Raleigh's city limits, but it is close.

Old Time Barbecue on Hillsborough Street/54 is supposed to be pretty good, but I don't know if that is in Raleigh or Cary.

I've looked for the place off Old Poole a couple of times after an N&O article mentioned it, but I've never found it. I stayed on "new" Poole and never got on Old Poole though.

I don't understand Coopers' hours of operation... Open till 6 doesn't cover dinner, other than people getting to go orders and take them home. I don't know if they would do that well, since it isn't upscale like Fins across the street. I guess they do well enough with lunch and their catering business.

I don't know why there isn't a Smithfields near Cary Town Blvd or the 40/54 intersection in west Raleigh/Cary by the Hampton Inn. They could clean up there for pre-game/tailgating and probably a lot of "old Cary" types would go.

It seems like the rest of downtown has bene quiet over the last couple of months... Tookies Grill is slow to open in Seaboard, and the grocery wasn't open as of a week or so ago. I hope some "opening soon" signs start popping up in Paladium Plaza. I saw a u-haul truck parked on the closed/barreled-off lane of Blount in front of there last night.

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There is a Smithfields near the Jones Sausage/I-40 intersection. I don't know if that is technically in Raleigh's city limits, but it is close.

Old Time Barbecue on Hillsborough Street/54 is supposed to be pretty good, but I don't know if that is in Raleigh or Cary.

I've looked for the place off Old Poole a couple of times after an N&O article mentioned it, but I've never found it. I stayed on "new" Poole and never got on Old Poole though.

Well, there is no hope for good pig in raleigh anymore...Did some research, and the place on Old Poole Road, Murray's BBQ (to which Don Murrays on Capital Blvd. was a poor and distant relation) closed in 2005, according to this article

probably the last BBQ joint left in Wake County that still cooked with wood.

Btw, Old Poole loops off to the right as soon as you cross over 440 outbound on Poole Road...I have no idea why the road was realigned in that area...May have something to do with the County office complex across the road on the site of the old plantation...

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Old Time Barbecue on Hillsborough Street/54 is supposed to be pretty good, but I don't know if that is in Raleigh or Cary.

Old Time is on Hillsborough, which is not 54 at that point. It's still considered inside Raleigh. The bride over I-40 is the break between Cary (Chatham Street) and Raleigh (Hillsborough Street).

Old Time is the best in West Raleigh. Pam's Farmhouse also serves BBQ, but it's TERRIBLE!

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Old Time is on Hillsborough, which is not 54 at that point. It's still considered inside Raleigh. The bride over I-40 is the break between Cary (Chatham Street) and Raleigh (Hillsborough Street).

Old Time is the best in West Raleigh. Pam's Farmhouse also serves BBQ, but it's TERRIBLE!

Old Time may be the best in West Raleigh cause it is the ONLY bbq joint in West Raleigh.

I ate there once and it was way below acceptable. Pig had no flavor (no smoke, no heat), and the veggies were straight out of the can (I could almost taste the aluminium).

You would think a good BBQ restaurant near the RBC/Carter-Finley area would do well.

And the only ones ITB now are the Q-Shack, Hideway (horrible), and Coopers. (Until Red Hot and Blue opens at Oberlin/Hillsborough).

Sorry, I'm a bit of a 'cue aficionado and I'm severly disappointed in the options in Raleigh.

Good thing I travel 70 East to the coast often to broaden my options.

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Anybody know anything about the cupcake place/bread shop...whatever it was...thats going in next to Amras? The carpentars have really been putting in some late nights there.

I've seen the progress in the past two weeks or so, and after probably 12-18 months with that sign up, it looks like they may finally be open soon. My guess would be in the next two weeks.

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  • 3 weeks later...

^That's good news. A place that new already expanding is impressive. As it is now, on many weekend nights their outside crowd uses up the sidewalk in front of Morning Times too. Perhaps in the future they'll consider keeping Morning Times open later too.

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I ate lunch at Raleigh Times Bar today and I saw that Empire is expanding next door into the building to the immediate left, 16 E Hargett St.

1300 sq ft, extend the Raleigh Times Bar into adjoining building by stalling fire door between spaces.

Remember, Hargett is the target. :lol:

Best burger in Raleigh. Hands down.

The problem is: a burger, fries and a drink with tip winds up being a $15 lunch.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Where is this cupcake place? In Glenwood South?

Next to Amras. I took some pics last friday...will try to post soon. Rob.....I stuck my face up to the window and only see one small display case and some countertop glass containers.....probably more than just cupcakes....the name seems to imply it, but the space looks awfully limited. They put a nice chunk of change into fixing up the space so I hope the business model can pay the rent and capital invested....maybe they will cater too or something like Peche de Chocolate in City Market does? I talked to the owner once wondering how he paid his rent selling candy and he said they provided lots of high end candy to special events etc.

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A few more updates I noticed:

The nutrition store next to the old Cherry site on Glenwood is now open. Just up the street, there's a men's & women's clothing store opening up in the old Fly salon spot.

Also, it looks like Firefly shoes is closing down or relocating. There's a big "Available" sign out front.

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I drove my wife and her out of town friends through Glewood South on Friday night around midnight and it seemed even more crowded than I remember.

My wife thought I was making the cupcake place up, but it looked open as we drove by. Was that a First Friday-only thing or do they plan on being open till midnight every Friday/weekend night?

Also, why aren't non-food/service/alcohol retail stores staying on Glenwood South for long? High rent? Low foot traffic? Spinning Mule (which became fly which is becoming something else) moved to Mission Valley, the Tibet store moved to Triangle Town Center, Cherry moved to Cameron Village, Wag disappeard, and now Firelfy. Their website doesn't give any indication if they are going web-only, but their online store seems to reflect the store's half off sale.

There are a few store fronts available on Person north of Krispy Kreme near Marsh Woodwinds. Also, the "available" sign on the NE corner of Wilmington and Hargett has been changed to "taken", but there is no sign as to who the tenant will be.

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^ I think the thing with retail has to do with shopping patterns.

When people just go out to "Go Shopping", they go to places where lots of stores are together....a mall, shopping center, or a "shopping village" even. Or at the very least, a street with lots of stores side-by-side. Unless they have a specific store in mind, they go to places where there are multiple options.

A store selling clothes (or furniture, or accessories...whatever) surrounded by restaurants and bars is probably going to have some difficulty getting in the foot traffic. (Especially since stores usually have different operating hours than restaurants and bars.) They'd do better if they were surrounded by similar shops.

And that's probably the biggest problem with downtown retail in Raleigh...we don't really have an area where lots of retail shops are side-by-side. We have restaurant areas....nightclub areas...art gallery areas... but not really a designated "shopping block" so to speak. (At least that I'm aware of?)

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Also, why aren't non-food/service/alcohol retail stores staying on Glenwood South for long? High rent? Low foot traffic?

Glenwood South is becoming synonomous as a place to "go out" at night. While it does get a lot of day usage, it can be really packed with people Thurs-Sat. You are also right in the assumption of higher rents. You are going to find that if you want to open up a business on that street in the now/future, you need a unique business idea that will get you customers. Just my personal opinion here.

I also agree with Rob, it's about where people go to shop. I'm more inclined to go to Cameron Village, get a parking spot, and be able to shop at a bunch of stores.

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There has been quite a bit of turnover in many of those spaces in the past year. I'm thinking the issue with Glenwood is part the lack of a continous retail district as Rob said, but also parking issues (perception vs reality?) and higher rents, with the increased property values. Eventually, it might turn out that the small boutique retail joints move out altogether (hopefully not) and food/bar/coffee joints take over.

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Yeah--Glenwood is quite the hopping spot at night. Daytime is a bit of a downer if you ask me, and the problem is two-fold. One is residents...this is changing for the better right now but I'm not sure there's a critical mass that can sustain streetlife all day. The other problem, as mentioned by others, is the lack of a retail district. People do typically shop in a browsing way, so you need more shops for window shopping, impulse buys, etc. I really hope the Edison adds this kind of feel. I'm not too knowledgable with regard to zoning, etc., but I would like to see certain parts of Glenwood South (as it expands) and DT zoned specifically for retail in order to draw people in who would otherwise go to North Hills or Cameron Village.

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There has been quite a bit of turnover in many of those spaces in the past year. I'm thinking the issue with Glenwood is part the lack of a continous retail district as Rob said, but also parking issues (perception vs reality?) and higher rents, with the increased property values. Eventually, it might turn out that the small boutique retail joints move out altogether (hopefully not) and food/bar/coffee joints take over.

Also, I love spots like Firefly, and make it a point to support them when I can. But, realistically, how often do I need a funky, $100 pair of shoes? I try & buy my wife birthday & christmas presents there, but it has to be difficult to sell such a specialized product in a high rent district.

I always find myself looking a the small inventory in spots like this & trying to figure out how the rent gets paid.

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Glenwood South does not have a critical mass of shopping places nor the types of storefronts that will work well for such things depending on what an individual thinks the area should be known for. Rents kill places like the old record shop under Rockford(spinning mule?). If Fayetteville and been torn up 10 years ago, maybe Glenwood would not have turned so popular so fast as the only decent place to open a club, thus uping the rents and killing off any chance of it being a bohemiam, middle scale retail type place. I am pretty convinced there is nowhere downtown that could ever serve as a destination retail area. I think the best we will ever see is service businesses that serve daily needs.....Blockbuster, CVS, Iatria, Food/Grocery, Eye Care, Ice Cream.......I naturally, think this is because all the small and mid-size buidlings with character are gone. Since the late 80's, First Citizens knocked down 3 or 4 nice 1880's 3 and 4 story buildings, First Union 6 or 7, two and three story, there were a few by the old water tower, Wilmington Deck took I think 4, Moore Square deck took out 3 or 4 all three stories and a whole row accross from Moore Square Deck on Martin came down too. Just in twenty years you lost about 20 perfect spots, all clustered together at points, for retail personalities to develop. Glenwood never had a mass of old commercial buildings that present themselves to the street the way these lost buildings did. Glenwood does sort of mimic the out-parcel restaurant layout of modern shopping centers to a degree with odd, unmatched architecture and varying building orientations. I think good infill with things like Solas can cement the layout in a way that could make the whole area more uniform and compact and conducive to general browse shopping, but there is still a long way to go imo.

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Agreed. There are some exceptions, I guess. City Market, to me, has always seemed the most logical point in downtown to have a heavy retail presence, but even there they seem to fill with food places or art galleries at best. There are some retail there...Connsignment Music, Native American Company and the Tibetan shop. Mostly stuff for the home at least....but no clothing retail yet. However, most of those places have been there for a while, so that's worth something. Plus, I think if the owners can't ever get another restaurant into the old Greenshields, they should consider subdividing it into more shops and see if that works. Then it'd definitely could be downtown's "window shopping" district.

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^^

I like City Market, and I think Edison could work really well with that and compliment it. I've also always thought the Warehouse District could be a possible place where you might see some cool browsing areas pop up. I think you could have the old warehouses along with some modern buildings if development could push west (and I'm not sure it can or will). CAM could really lend itself to that kind of thing, and you have some good establishments like Humble Pie down there already. I like the idea of blending contemporary steel and glass with old brick warehouses. Regardless of where we see retail pop up downtown (and let's hope it does), I would love to see a good mix of avant garde and traditional. Niche places are great and add character, but there needs to be a range there.

My dream urban neighborhood--The Pearl in Portland.

http://www.portlandneighborhood.com/pearldistrict.html

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