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Historic Congaree Vista Developments


CorgiMatt

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I'm interested to see what stores actually make it to the coridor. :blush: I hope some nice popular type store make it there. :wub: I know those that cater to the big masses might prefer the more highly populated suburban areas, but something like puma, steve madden, kenneth cole...some of those good ole cheesy name brands.....ooh or some really nice custom tailor type spots. :shades: I love granger and owens (i think i spelled that wrong but i hope you know what i was going for)!

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A Brooks Brothers would be nice. I think a few "hip" stores are necessary to cater to the tourist and the young :shades: population that make up the majority of Columbia. Imagine someone visiting Columbia and realizing that there are actually clubs and bars to go to and they need some contemporary clothes to go out in. Stores like puma, H&M, kenneth cole, nine west, aldo, armani exchange :D bring in more money becuase the age group that spends the most money is the young population. Also this would be the only place between charlotte and charleston where you can get those contemporary items. Idealistically some seriously upscale stores would be great...Tiffany and Co., Nordstroms, ralph lauren, maybe a lindt chocolate store, or godiva. :rofl:

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Agreed. Pulaski needs to be improved, and they will have to remove that DOT building.

I've wondered about the DOT building myself. That building isn't very old (mid seventies) but it is sitting on some prime real estate. I wonder how much money would change hands to make it go away and where SCDOT would move.

It doesn't look too bad on the outside, but I absolutely hate the interior of that buildin. Very dark and not enough windws.

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Agreed. Pulaski needs to be improved, and they will have to remove that DOT building.

The DOT building is sitting on some prime land, but I think it should stay where it is. It is the headquarters of a large gov't agency which should be downtown, plus I work there :P . There are no plans for the department to move as of right now, but because it is on such valuable land, I think eventual relocation is inevitable. The DMV main office moved out to Blythewood a short while back. However, like with SCANA, if the DOT Headquarters and it's 500+ employees (most who eat out everyday) move out of downtown, many restaurants and businesses in the Vista and surrounding area will feel the impact. :unsure:

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Hmm, I didn't mean the DOT building on Park St. That one is fine, albiet not very pedestrian friendly. I was referring to the ugly yellow one with the unnecessarily large parking lot between Pulaski and Huger, accross from the former CMRTA bus depot. Maybe its not DOT... its some sort of law enforcement organization though.

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Hmm, I didn't mean the DOT building on Park St. That one is fine, albiet not very pedestrian friendly. I was referring to the ugly yellow one with the unnecessarily large parking lot between Pulaski and Huger, accross from the former CMRTA bus depot. Maybe its not DOT... its some sort of law enforcement organization though.

That is the city garage where cars are towed if they're illegally parked.

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A Brooks Brothers would be nice. I think a few "hip" stores are necessary to cater to the tourist and the young :shades: population that make up the majority of Columbia. Imagine someone visiting Columbia and realizing that there are actually clubs and bars to go to and they need some contemporary clothes to go out in. Stores like puma, H&M, kenneth cole, nine west, aldo, armani exchange :D bring in more money becuase the age group that spends the most money is the young population. Also this would be the only place between charlotte and charleston where you can get those contemporary items. Idealistically some seriously upscale stores would be great...Tiffany and Co., Nordstroms, ralph lauren, maybe a lindt chocolate store, or godiva. :rofl:

I'd like to disagree with some of you on your excitement about high-end chains moving into the Vista. I think it would be the death of many of the unique qualities that make the Vista so attractive. For an example of this, just look down the highway at King Street in Charleston. It has turned into a big upscale outdoor mall to service the wealthy tourists who visit Charleston. It is no longer the main street of the CBD for the region, and Charleston is the poorer as a city because of this big change.

Granted we are talking about creating a new shopping zone on Lady, not replacing an existing traditional one, but once these high-rent paying chains come in, its goodbye to all the funky, locally-owned businesses and artist's spaces, and hello to all the corporate-controlled shops selling overpriced junk. I don't think this is a serious concern for the Vista though, because Columbia just doesn't have the demographics or the volume of traffic to support the kinds of stores you are listing here.

I suspect, and hope, what will happen is that the Vista will attract one or two more nice chains (Starbucks, Caribou Coffee, and a few mid-range clothing stores) and still be able to maintain its mix of artists/businesses/night life/retail that make it so attractive now.

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I'd like to disagree with some of you on your excitement about high-end chains moving into the Vista. I think it would be the death of many of the unique qualities that make the Vista so attractive. For an example of this, just look down the highway at King Street in Charleston. It has turned into a big upscale outdoor mall to service the wealthy tourists who visit Charleston. It is no longer the main street of the CBD for the region, and Charleston is the poorer as a city because of this big change.

Granted we are talking about creating a new shopping zone on Lady, not replacing an existing traditional one, but once these high-rent paying chains come in, its goodbye to all the funky, locally-owned businesses and artist's spaces, and hello to all the corporate-controlled shops selling overpriced junk. I don't think this is a serious concern for the Vista though, because Columbia just doesn't have the demographics or the volume of traffic to support the kinds of stores you are listing here.

I suspect, and hope, what will happen is that the Vista will attract one or two more nice chains (Starbucks, Caribou Coffee, and a few mid-range clothing stores) and still be able to maintain its mix of artists/businesses/night life/retail that make it so attractive now.

I disagree. First of all, chain stores have always been around on these shoping streets. Second, people recognize major brand name stores like Starbucks and the GAP, etc. Those stores generate more traffic which in turn help the local businesses turn a proffit. People are generally more willing to try shopping somewhere new if they are confident that the product they are looking for will meet a certain quality or experience, etc. The idea should be to build local businesses, chains too, which will establish downtown and the Vista as more than an entertainment/restaurant district (which is all that it is today).

I am not trying to make an argument against locally owned businesses, because these are highly valued establishments! I simply maintain that chain stores serve their purpose and should not be so quickly dismissed. Lets not forget that these stores are usually locally owned franchises. Charleston's King Street would not be the destination it is today without those chain stores.

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I disagree. First of all, chain stores have always been around on these shoping streets. Second, people recognize major brand name stores like Starbucks and the GAP, etc. Those stores generate more traffic which in turn help the local businesses turn a proffit. People are generally more willing to try shopping somewhere new if they are confident that the product they are looking for will meet a certain quality or experience, etc. The idea should be to build local businesses, chains too, which will establish downtown and the Vista as more than an entertainment/restaurant district (which is all that it is today).

I am not trying to make an argument against locally owned businesses, because these are highly valued establishments! I simply maintain that chain stores serve their purpose and should not be so quickly dismissed. Lets not forget that these stores are usually locally owned franchises. Charleston's King Street would not be the destination it is today without those chain stores.

I think you misunderstand my point Spartan. My point isn't that chain stores in the Vista wouldn't be successful, its that chain stores in the Vista have a great potential to really change (very much for the worse in my view) the character of the Vista. King Street in Charleston is very successful for what it is now - high-end tourist shopping, but it is not a viable, "everyday life" shopping district for the locals any longer. The Vista could become a very successful shopping area sporting many high-rent chain stores, but it would fundamentally change the unique character of the Vista that the city and residents have worked for so long to create/preserve.

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I say bring in a few chains. The traffic will come as USC and other colleges are in the downtown vicinity. As a former USC student, I can attest to not having shopped at the Vista or Five Points b/c I'm reluctant to go into any store im not familiar with. If there was a mixture of both local and chain stores, I would be more willing to shop at stores that I'm less familiar with.

Edited by HAMMETTM
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I think you misunderstand my point Spartan. My point isn't that chain stores in the Vista wouldn't be successful, its that chain stores in the Vista have a great potential to really change (very much for the worse in my view) the character of the Vista. King Street in Charleston is very successful for what it is now - high-end tourist shopping, but it is not a viable, "everyday life" shopping district for the locals any longer. The Vista could become a very successful shopping area sporting many high-rent chain stores, but it would fundamentally change the unique character of the Vista that the city and residents have worked for so long to create/preserve.

But is King St all high end shopping? It certainly has a few of those types of stores, but it has alot more to offer than that. Locals enjoy the restaurants and cafe's just like the tourists do. No commercial district is fully self supportive from its own community. Look at Greenville or Asheville, or what have you... these places have retained a unique character for their entertainment/shopping districts, complete with a local flavor and everything... the locals love it as well as the tourists. I think that Charleston has done this as well. Sure there are a few more touristy crap shops than in other cities, but that is part of the nature of tourism and you will find that in ANY successful tourist town.

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I think this is some of the close mindedness that has kept Columbia and SC behind in past times. :angry: There are numerous locally owned places and plenty of locations for those people to continue their business.

What Columbia really lacks is a place where tourist and locals (and open your eyes there are people with money in SC!) can do some contemporary shopping. How many stores with khakis and polos do we need. How many art galleries with various pantings of palmetto trees and games cocks does this town need. I love the locally owned places, but the are not filling up the city. There is no way in a city this diverse that those stores can cater to everyone's needs. There is a growing population of new young "hip" people from out of state that want more than what is already offered. If the need wasnt there, who would even have fathomed opening a private club of 300 shares for $10,000 a pop. -_- A club that is targeting the young business and political people moving back into the city.

There is nothing wrong with King St. In fact they are currently working on expanding the revival to the northside. And there are still plenty of local stores still in business and doing better than they did before the chain stores.

The new stores in the vista would not just cater to tourist and college students. new chain stores would help bring people back downtown for more than just a game. This will increase the amount of money spent at stores and restaraunts currently present already in the vista. the close mindedness that is being expressed is exactly what brought the area down in the first place. instead of being so negative about urbanization...this is urban planet by the way...embrace it and find something new that might enhance your life. if you are so against it try rural planet and realize that sc has enough rural places for anyone who misses farm life. :whistling:

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What Columbia really lacks is a place where tourist and locals (and open your eyes there are people with money in SC!) can do some contemporary shopping. How many stores with khakis and polos do we need. How many art galleries with various pantings of palmetto trees and games cocks does this town need. I love the locally owned places, but the are not filling up the city. There is no way in a city this diverse that those stores can cater to everyone's needs. There is a growing population of new young "hip" people from out of state that want more than what is already offered. If the need wasnt there, who would even have fathomed opening a private club of 300 shares for $10,000 a pop. -_- A club that is targeting the young business and political people moving back into the city.

The new stores in the vista would not just cater to tourist and college students. new chain stores would help bring people back downtown for more than just a game. This will increase the amount of money spent at stores and restaraunts currently present already in the vista. the close mindedness that is being expressed is exactly what brought the area down in the first place.

I agree. We do need popular chain stores to lure tourist and college students to the area. Every store in cola sales khakis and polos and we need more options. I'm tired of having to go out of town to really get what I want.

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I agree. We do need popular chain stores to lure tourist and college students to the area. Every store in cola sales khakis and polos and we need more options. I'm tired of having to go out of town to really get what I want.

I agree to a point, but I think it's the locally owned businesses that bring in more funky goods...Savoy in the Vista, Good Vibrations in Five Points...some of the other clothes stores in Five Points. I think the chains are what bring in more of the same.

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I think this is some of the close mindedness that has kept Columbia and SC behind in past times. :angry: There are numerous locally owned places and plenty of locations for those people to continue their business...

Instead of being so negative about urbanization...this is urban planet by the way...embrace it and find something new that might enhance your life. if you are so against it try rural planet and realize that sc has enough rural places for anyone who misses farm life. :whistling:

Carolina King - not following you on your definitions of "urban" and "close mindedness", and why you feel my posts are anti- the former and exhibiting the latter....

High-end chain stores, luxury goods, etc... are a natural part of the growth and success of an urban area. These will eventually come to Columbia. I grew up in Columbia, but no longer live there. I'm certain that shopping options are not all they could be and am sure I would feel constrained as you do if I lived there.

My comments are specifically in regards to high-end retail chains in the Vista. The city has worked for decades to bring the Vista to the point it is now. The Vista is a uniquely Columbia place with interesting, historic architecture, what seems to be a healthy mix of business, residential, retail and night life. A major influx of national retail chains will make the Vista less unique and more like dozens and dozens of other urban shopping neighborhoods around the country.

Some people may see this process as a positive, but I see it as a homogenization of a unique urban neighborhood, and a loss to the overall uniqueness of Columbia. There are plenty of places for high-end chains to locate in Columbia, and, for your sake and others, I hope that your shopping options improve in the near future. I'm concerned that locating these types of stores in the Vista will not be beneficial to the long-term health of the Vista as we know it today. In the push to gain more shopping options, don't throw out what is unique (and successful from my experiences in visiting the Vista) about Columbia.

Edited by JT Boy
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I think this shows how a balance must be sought. Do we want to preserve the vibe and character of the Vista by virtually excluding chains, which may not generate the desired pedestrian activity? Or do we allow some chains, which may compromise the character of the Vista, but possibly generate a substantial level of pedestrian activity? I think it's possible to allow some chains and not really sacrifice the Vista's identity and vibe. Look at the building that American Apparel occupies--totally appropriate for the district. And people have a certain level of comfort patronizing nationally-known stores. And to have chains locate in a hot spot like the Vista will validate it in a way--that's just how it is.

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I think this shows how a balance must be sought. Do we want to preserve the vibe and character of the Vista by virtually excluding chains, which may not generate the desired pedestrian activity? Or do we allow some chains, which may compromise the character of the Vista, but possibly generate a substantial level of pedestrian activity? I think it's possible to allow some chains and not really sacrifice the Vista's identity and vibe. Look at the building that American Apparel occupies--totally appropriate for the district. And people have a certain level of comfort patronizing nationally-known stores. And to have chains locate in a hot spot like the Vista will validate it in a way--that's just how it is.

Krazee, that's right--a little of both, just so there's a balance. Let's learn from Charleston's and other cities' experience with this sort of thing. Perhaps keep out the big-box chains like Gap, but allow the boutique chains like Puma or Brookstone. Those would be cool. It's up to The Vista Development Corp. or whatever it's called, I guess, to see to it that this balance happens.

As for restaurants, The Vista is decidedly ho-hum, IMO. <_< It needs a serious infusion of high-end restaurants. We have enough meat and potato places, college hangouts, and the like--what we need are more sophisticated and/or funky gourmet choices. Look at Greenville or Charleston's downtown choices. Columbia's is embarassingly run-of-the-mill. I can only think of one or maybe two places I would take my company from bigger cities. After that, I dunno . . . the West Vista on State Street has some cool, funky eating establishments that are AWEsome, so that's where I end up taking them. (They loved them--whew!)

I just wish the Vista was a little less "drunk frat boy" . . . that's for 5 Points.

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Krazee, that's right--a little of both, just so there's a balance. Let's learn from Charleston's and other cities' experience with this sort of thing. Perhaps keep out the big-box chains like Gap, but allow the boutique chains like Puma or Brookstone. Those would be cool. It's up to The Vista Development Corp. or whatever it's called, I guess, to see to it that this balance happens.

As for restaurants, The Vista is decidedly ho-hum, IMO. <_< It needs a serious infusion of high-end restaurants. We have enough meat and potato places, college hangouts, and the like--what we need are more sophisticated and/or funky gourmet choices. Look at Greenville or Charleston's downtown choices. Columbia's is embarassingly run-of-the-mill. I can only think of one or maybe two places I would take my company from bigger cities. After that, I dunno . . . the West Vista on State Street has some cool, funky eating establishments that are AWEsome, so that's where I end up taking them. (They loved them--whew!)

I just wish the Vista was a little less "drunk frat boy" . . . that's for 5 Points.

Digital, the selection of Restaurants in Five Points and the Devine Street corridor is quite good: Garibaldi's, Saluda's, Dianne's on Devine, Baan Sawan, Mediterranean Tea Room, Al Amir, Za's, Devine Foods, Sushi Yoshi, etc. The Vista does need more ethnic restaurants like Five Points.

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