Memphis International Airport

[northernbizzkit1]

There was a reference about rerouting funds used for A380 upgrades at MEM to other projects at the airport since MEM won't see the giant whale...any idea as to where it may go? I've heard a few sources mention arguments made at MSCAA meetings for using it to jumpstart the concourse renovation project, but that's about it...

[cdarr]

There was a reference about rerouting funds used for A380 upgrades at MEM to other projects at the airport since MEM won't see the giant whale...any idea as to where it may go? I've heard a few sources mention arguments made at MSCAA meetings for using it to jumpstart the concourse renovation project, but that's about it...

Personally, I think concourse improvements are needed the most. The new concessions rotunda is very nice and a major step in the right direction. Now, the corridors and waiting areas need to be widened, ceilings raised, and furnishings replaced. Trouble is, as jmduke explained so well in earlier posts, the existing concourse layout has limitations. The center of Concourse B cannot be widened much, because the distances between it and concourses A & C on either side already constrain aircraft movements.

Some time ago, I mentioned that I had a copy of the airport's 1986 master plan somewhere. I finally dug it out. Here's a map showing the position of two proposed satellite concourses which would be constructed to the south of the existing terminal and interconnected by an underground peoplemover system whose tunnels are already partially built:

Each of those satellite concourses would have about 54 gates. I could see them constructing the first one to serve NW's mainline aircraft while continuing to use the B Concourse for smaller regional jets which could better navigate the narrow alleyways. Or perhaps, after constructing the new concourse, the existing A/B/C concourses might be partially demolished and reconfigured for better aircraft traffic flow.

[Fellowmann20]

City leaders haven't exactly done a fantastic job managing the city, as evidenced by the continuing decline of the security situation that has only accelerated in recent years. Combine this with strokes of brilliance like "We will build the FedEx Forum for you, and agree to let you keep us from holding events at the Pyramid...which we are still paying for..." and you can't say that the city is in particularly good hands.

I never claimed crime would be solved overnight. What I did say, and what I firmly believe, is that for Memphis to build a stadium now with public money is akin to buying a Porsche when you live in a cardboard box. It's a matter of priorities, and I think that the sports-obsessed politicians are still waiting for the arena/stadium that will somehow make people forget what a state Memphis is in. People always jump at the chance to cheerlead for a stadium. History has pretty much proven stadium construction proposals to be a guaranteed way to distract the populace from whatever real problems plague a city, with no real discussion about how the resources used to build the stadium could be better applied. It's like someone excitedly waving a bag of candy in front of their kids and asking them if they want it. Of course they will say "Yes" without thinking about the consequences.

Public safety is the most basic service of modern government. It's universally agreed across the entire political spectrum to be one of the essential functions of any governing body (though some Libertarians argue it should be contracted out, but I digress). I do not believe it is right to say that one should not criticize the money spent on borderline-useless public works projects that divert money from needed services, and that the failure to provide said services should be taken care of by the citizenry.

Memphis has been promising more police for years - it hasn't happened. They did promise a new basketball arena, and managed to find the money for that...as I'm sure they will find the money for this, but those 500 police will remain forever elusive.

I find it highly doubtful that Memphis taxpayers will not be asked to cough up money for the stadium. If they don't have to pay a penny for it...that's fine...build it. Otherwise, hold off and focus on more pressing matters.

I agree with the rest of your post, but "Liberal Mind"? Could we please avoid name-calling and what sounds like Ann Coulter-esque talking points as fodder for our arguments?

Thats a nice master plan. You think the x terminals will ever be built?

[northernbizzkit1]

In all honesty, I could see Northwest opting to build the X concourse and reduce capacity in B for international flights.

[cdarr]

Thats a nice master plan. You think the x terminals will ever be built?

Not too long ago, one of the higher-ups at the Airport Authority was quoted as saying something like "we can build plenty more gates whenever Northwest wants them".

They could still add on to the south end of C, diagonally, like they did on A. They could also add a few gates onto the north of C if they eliminated some of the exiting air cargo terminal...but you only have parking positions on one side so that wouldn't be the most efficient expenditure of money. And major additions would have to be in the form of a satellite terminal, I think.

[Rardy]

Doom and gloom projections for MEM if NWA and Delta merge, per today's CA. Apparently execs from NWA and Delta have been meeting in secret. This could really be possible.

A combined NWA/Delta would have hubs in Minneapolis, Detroit, Atlanta, Cincinnati, and of course Memphis. Too many for a single airline. The only thing that could work in our favor is congestion in ATL.

[AmandaHugginkiss]

I agree that congestion is going to pay a huge role in Memphis remaining a hub. IMO, I think, if the merger was to happen, Memphis would still be in good shape because it is crazy in ATL. It is such a inconvenience there.

Cross your fingers..

[qwertycc]

It seems that, if they merge, the biggest bottleneck would be with the 3 Midwest hubs. Northwest having 2 (Detroit and Minneapolis) so close has always baffled me. Perhaps, Minneapolis or Cincy could be kept to alleviate Detroit and Memphis kept to alleviate Atlanta.

Best case scenario if Memphis is cut as a hub would definitely be Pinnacle's growth and emergence as an independent airline based in Memphis.

Side note: I thought Delta also had a hub in Salt Lake City...

[Rardy]

Side note: I thought Delta also had a hub in Salt Lake City...

I think you're right. The CA didn't list it though. Probably cause it's not close to the 5 in the eastern half of the U.S.

[memville]

we all need to pray that doesnt happen and instead united and northwest need to merge. We would have the only true southern hub and plus united is having a huge problem with delays at denver and chicago with winter weather while we are the most on time airport

[northernbizzkit1]

Agreed...I have wondered why NW and UA haven't looked into a pairing since there isn't too much overlap with these two either apart from the Midwest region. I can imagine MEM being kept open simply because ATL is already at 1000 flights a day for Delta, so I really can't see how they can tack on more flights to absorb the Memphis hub plus the possibility of a shut down CVG or MSP. I imagine that the first thing that would happen with NW/DL would be to eliminate the focus cities that are heavily scattered throughout the midwest. Personally, I see CVG going under before MEM.

[Rardy]

Agreed...I have wondered why NW and UA haven't looked into a pairing since there isn't too much overlap with these two either apart from the Midwest region. I can imagine MEM being kept open simply because ATL is already at 1000 flights a day for Delta, so I really can't see how they can tack on more flights to absorb the Memphis hub plus the possibility of a shut down CVG or MSP. I imagine that the first thing that would happen with NW/DL would be to eliminate the focus cities that are heavily scattered throughout the midwest. Personally, I see CVG going under before MEM.

I don't think NWA would tolerate closing MSP's hub. That's NWA's home-base. CVG really could go without losing much. Better them than us, right?

But if Delta and NWA merged, wouldn't that mean they would get rid of all their duplicating flights, which probably wouldn't mean too much of an increase in flights at all for ATL?

[northernbizzkit1]

I don't think NWA would tolerate closing MSP's hub. That's NWA's home-base. CVG really could go without losing much. Better them than us, right?

But if Delta and NWA merged, wouldn't that mean they would get rid of all their duplicating flights, which probably wouldn't mean too much of an increase in flights at all for ATL?

true, but the home base would likely have a chance to be in ATL if things go a certain way. IMO, I can see CVG and the IND and MKE NW focus cities going under. For ATL, it depends really on the philosophy of the new airline. I mean, DL is all about routing everything through ATL right now, so you could see where ATL would look at absorbing flights from CVG, IND, MKE, and...shudder...MEM even though DTW and MSP are there as well. The airport can keep adding those terminals for only so far...ATL would need some relief, and I think the execs would look at a place with a similar, stable climate to be the relief. This could bode well for us, for it would allow MEM to retain some form of a hub and then become viable for more LCCs.

[crossroad]

I was making an air reservation from DFW to MEM and found MEM is expensive to fly to. For instance, all on a coach class for a round trip in early Feb 2007:

DFW- MEM, $421 non-stop, $265 one-stop, coach class (1.4 hours' trip)

DFW- Las Vegas, $223 non-stop, $244 one-stop, coach class (3.0 hours' trip)

DFW-ATL, $218 non-stop, $232 one-stop, coach class (2 hours' trip )

MEM is the shortest flight, but was 90% more expensive than LAS and ATL to fly from DFW on non-stop flights. It is also 10 - 20% more expensive for a one-stop flight.

I was APPALLED to see this airfare. No low cost carrier is based in MEM but both ATL and LAS have low cost airline hub/base, which help keep airfare low. MEM does need some low cost carriers to join the competition, badly. Lower airfare sure will benefit local business and tourism, especially the local entrepreneurs. It even helps the legacy carriers as well, to become leaner and more efficient in managing operations.

Thoughts?

[James Owen]

I was making an air reservation from DFW to MEM and found MEM is expensive to fly to. For instance, all on a coach class for a round trip in early Feb 2007:

DFW- MEM, $421 non-stop, $265 one-stop, coach class (1.4 hours' trip)

DFW- Las Vegas, $223 non-stop, $244 one-stop, coach class (3.0 hours' trip)

DFW-ATL, $218 non-stop, $232 one-stop, coach class (2 hours' trip )

MEM is the shortest flight, but was 90% more expensive than LAS and ATL to fly from DFW on non-stop flights. It is also 10 - 20% more expensive for a one-stop flight.

I was APPALLED to see this airfare. No low cost carrier is based in MEM but both ATL and LAS have low cost airline hub/base, which help keep airfare low. MEM does need some low cost carriers to join the competition, badly. Lower airfare sure will benefit local business and tourism, especially the local entrepreneurs. It even helps the legacy carriers as well, to become leaner and more efficient in managing operations.

Thoughts?

I believe one reason Memphis doesn't have any low cost carriers has to do with a law filed by the DFW airport that prohibits certain carriers from serving airports in cities a certain distance from Dallas/Fort Worth, fearing that they would lose business.

[crossroad]

I believe one reason Memphis doesn't have any low cost carriers has to do with a law filed by the DFW airport that prohibits certain carriers from serving airports in cities a certain distance from Dallas/Fort Worth, fearing that they would lose business.

The Wright Amendment?

It's gone, since 2006!

[James Owen]

The Wright Amendment?

It's gone, since 2006!

Well, even with that, MEM still probably won't land a low-cost carrier for a while as long as Northwest has a stranglehold on the airport as well as a monopoly over 80-90% of all flights to and from the city. That's likely the prime reason the airfares are so high.

[cdarr]

If DL and NW merge, I'd say the chances of MEM retaining its status as a true hub are slim. The combined airline will undoubtedly be looking to cut capacity, and MEM will be the first candidate for hub closure. We have two strikes against us...too small of a population base, and too close to ATL.

Most airlines value their fortress hubs more for their ability to capture a huge share of the local passenger market, not for logistics purposes. Memphis, the smallest metro area in the U.S. with a major airline hub, does not offer NW very much in the way of origin/destination traffic. That might have cost us the hub a long time ago, except for the fact that NW doesn't have any other good options for a southern hub. They can't move any other major city in the south - they all have hubs already. And moving to a similarly sized city like Nashville, Birmingham or Oklahoma City wouldn't bring enough additional population base to be worth the move. So they've stayed put. Obviously, a merged DL/NW would have ATL and could do away with MEM, only 350 miles away.

There's plenty to not like about the scenario. Memphis would immediately lose 75% or more of its daily arrivals and departures. Most of the passenger concourses would go unused and large sectons would be cordoned off. The new concession rotunda they just completed would be almost useless, since few if any of the outer gates on the B Concourse would even be used. The nonstop Memphis-Amsterdam flight would be cancelled due to lack of connecting traffic. The Airport Authority would face a serious revenue crunch. The city would lose many hundreds of jobs. And from a civic pride point of view, Memphis would be reduced to just another spoke in the networks of various airlines.

What good would come out of it? Memphis would instantly become an underserved market upon the hub's closure,and within 6-12 months, existing airlines would add frequencies and probably serve Memphis from all of their hubs. Some airlines that do not serve Memphis at all would have to strongly consider moving in - most notably Southwest and JetBlue. The number of Memphis passengers using MEM might actually go up in that case; there would be no reason to drive to LIT or BNA if MEM was being served by Southwest. Probably the best news would be the likelihood of lower airfares in MEM with NW's fortress hub gone.

Our Nashville friends survived the AA hub closure a decade ago, and many would say they have even thrived.

[Rardy]

Our Nashville friends survived the AA hub closure a decade ago, and many would say they have even thrived.

Yes, but can't you make the argument that the airport thrived because of the city's booming economy?

I don't know. I guess I kinda like the hub status, even though it does make us pay more as Crossroad pointed out (I'm HAPPY to find a fare for $244, Crossroad).

I wonder if this would affect our status as "aerotropolis"?

[idlewild]

I hope we lose Northwest they charge far too much as it is. I welcome Southwest or any other carrier to come into our market ASAP.

[Rardy]

I hope we lose Northwest they charge far too much as it is. I welcome Southwest or any other carrier to come into our market ASAP.

Yes, but what about the airport that suddenly loses 75% of its passengers (and flights)? So much for the new concessions in B. And don't forget that several thousand NWA pilots and flight crew are based here. That's a significant portion of our employment base...

[Clobber]

I wonder if this would affect our status as "aerotropolis"?

Definitely.

[northernbizzkit1]

I hope we lose Northwest they charge far too much as it is. I welcome Southwest or any other carrier to come into our market ASAP.

yes, and then you can say goodbye to most of the 1000 jobs Northwest provides to those in this city...

[cdarr]

I wonder if this would affect our status as "aerotropolis"?

If you read the articles on the subject, the professor/consultant who coined this phrase emphasizes the cargo aspect of the airport and says very little about the passenger hub. We'll remain an aerotropolis as long as FedEx maintains its big operation...which means a very long time.

As passenger hubs go, the NW hub here is relatively small. I believe it is the smallest hub operated by any of the major airlines. MEM still ranks only 35th in the U.S. in enplaned passengers in 2006 with about 11.8 million (that includes connecting passengers). That's beneath a number of cities that have no hub. In fact, it's not that much more than BNA, which had about 9.4 million passengers. If the NW hub goes away but SWA and/or other low cost carriers come in, I think you would see MEM passenger counts stabilize around 7-8 million annually.

[tennreb]

The Wright Amendment?

It's gone, since 2006!

No it's not. They can only fly outside of the Wright zone if the plane first stops inside the zone.