River Place Condominiums

[brresident]

Just as Jackson is waiting to see the King Edward project unfold before developing more properties downtown, the developers here may be waiting for confirmation of demand before proceeding. As in Jackson, I predict that the demand will be strong. This should go forward without a hitch. Urban living is hitting the South like a brick against the wall. It may not have been in demand before, but watch out...it will happen throughout the South.

The residential market has dried up all over the country. When the economy slows down and intrest rates cool, the residential market will catch up. For example, Southgate towers: the market was really not there, and as soon as word got out of the shabby construction, sales dried up quick. The developer paid too much for that land to put residential on it (just like Ford pasture) because the previous owner sat on it for so long. So R.W. Day went too high and too expensive. That land was more suitable for a Perkins Rowe style development with brownstones on top of major retail establishments, but zoning in Baton Rouge would have prevented that. It's a complete failure for residential and local officials shouldn't have approved it. Maybe it will pick up in a few years, but I doubt that we will see the burbank side ever completed.

It's happening at Ford Pasture too. There is no way the developer can make money unless JTS can get zoning changed to allow for a good portion of it to be retail. This isn't going to sit well with southdowns, Micky Skyring, and other folks in the area. That is just not the spot for a high-density Perkins rowe neighborhood and that is pretty much the kind of development JTS would have to do to make a profit. People don't want to pay $185,000 for a a 80'x85' city lot...but that is what JTS would have to sell it for to make money. Can't be done now properly without the higher prices that only come with high-end retail spaces or mid to high rise office towers. Like I said...good luck with that. Southdowns is organized and I will be amazed if they let that happen.

The bubble bursts. We are not alone. Developers paid too much money and demand dried up. The residential market is just not there...speculators and "flippers" created an artificial demand, and they are scared off now by higher intrest rates. Southgate Towers, River Place, and Ford pasture are going to be casualties.

Baton Rouge market is OK for single family under $200K, but I don't see the need for expensive lofts here. I just don't see it happening. I hope I am wrong on this, but I am predicting the River Place building to be canceled or changed to a mid rise (5-8 story) office building that may in the distant future support a residential tower.

It would be a serious blow to downtown if that happened. I hope it goes through this year, though. It's time for another tall building in that area.

If I owned the downtown property in question, I'd scale down the residential space, and try to make small footprint mid-rise luxury condo and a mid-to high rise hotel in the 300-400 room range with office space and retail on the lower floors (or sit on the property until demand returns...but you lose money on intrest that way). A hotel can give you guys the skyline addition you are looking for and it can contribute to the pediestrian traffic downtown on nights and weekends. Once that is up, I'd then start working on the residential side (after the ground floor retail is up and running to serve the Hotel). Not sure if you can fit both of those on the property. Hotels don't need as much footprint (typically narrower) as office or residential towers.

Sorry to be so negative. I really hope the tower is built....but I would't doubt it if the developer is having to give deposits back. If that is the case, then it's unlikely the tower won't happen. On a positive note, he paid to much for a surface parking lot. Whatever is built there has to be built up just to make money. We might get a tower afterall, but I don't think it is going to be very much residential space.

[richyb83]

Thanks for your input brresident. Very interesting indeed. I had heard that Southgate Towers was cheaply put together(except the roofing). The 10-story tower is supposed to begin anytime now; it was fenced off last time I drove by. I think some new mid-rise loft condo's downtown would be nice. And I agree a mixed-use hotel/condo would be a good idea too.

This was in Business Report today....the bubble has burst in most places; but not the Gulf South

Forbes Magazine took a look at the housing market and says while some places are slipping like Boston and San Diego; Baton Rouge has been one of the winners

http://www.forbes.com/2007/01/25/strongest...5strongest.html

Third Street has a couple loft projects that have started and a couple more in the works. The last phase of Shaw Center Arts Block has a 6 to 8-story condo in the works...demolishing the Onyxx Bldg. The next phase(II) will have a mix offices and lofts.

[dan326]

Maybe it's just a coincidence, but RiverPlace seems to very loosely echo the state capitol.

[richyb83]

I know one thing; at 36-stories(according to bidclerk.com) River Place should be very close in height with the State Capitol. Even with a 3-level parking deck the elevation of River Place is lower closer to the river; that's why I think the State Capitol still will be barely taller.

I like the term "vertical neighborhood" when refering to River Place.

*** Tallest Residential in BR **

14-story Catholic-Presbyterian Apts.

13-story Kirby Smith Hall

12-stories each; both Bluebonnet Towers

^ That list really needs to change!

[richyb83]

"The residential market has dried up all over the country".... brresident quote

True, but that's not happening in places like Baton Rouge yet.

I am still having a hard time with this new set up on UP. I can't seem to post the quotes...that sucks

I wish we could back to the old way.

[NCB]

I am still having a hard time with this new set up on UP. I can't seem to post the quotes...that sucks

I wish we could back to the old way.

What exactly is giving you the problem, Richy? The quote feature is exactly the same in the new setup of UP as it was in the old.

[tombarnes]

I'm delighted to see that the River Place Condominium project is going forward. Downtown living is definitely the answer for Baton Rouge and a growing number of cities. As for its resemblance to the State Capitol, that's a bit of a stretch dan.

[dan326]

Good to see they are starting to do some premature foundation work.

Engineers continue to take soil borings for the River Place Baton Rouge condominiums ahead of beginning construction in coming months.

As for its resemblance to the State Capitol, that's a bit of a stretch dan.

I said loosely! Doesn't that count for anything?! Don't you have any imagination?

[richyb83]

Dan, How did you find that? Business Report Feb 17th?? I thought they already did soil boring.

Good to see they are starting to do some premature foundation work.

No the quotes are not the same I am a dumb a?s that will leave that alone, I used quotes a couple times in the past but not now. See the way it looks above.

[NCB]

^All you've got to do is click the "quote" button under the reply you'd like to quote. Once you click it, it should turn red, and at that point you just click "Add Reply" at the bottom of the page. You seem to be the only one with a problem thus far. If that doesn't work, something just must be up on your end.

[richyb83]

^All you've got to do is click the "quote" button under the reply you'd like to quote. Once you click it, it should turn red, and at that point you just click "Add Reply" at the bottom of the page. You seem to be the only one with a problem thus far. If that doesn't work, something just must be up on your end.

Thanks for your patience Nate, your the best

I was aso trying to quote on fast reply.

[NCB]

Not a problem, Richy! Glad I could help!

[dan326]

Dan, How did you find that? Business Report Feb 17th?? I thought they already did soil boring.

I can't find it anymore, but RiverPlace was mentioned in an article about another downtown site.

[richyb83]

Here are some new renderings of River Place condominium tower!!! Shorter 3 and 4 story lofts with ground level retail/restaurant will be surrounding River Place.

Great views of sunsets too!!!

APRIL FOOLS!!!!!!!

*This is actually the Mercer Condominiums in Houston's Uptown Galleria District; this is a "close" as I can find imitation of River Place; But the 30-story/4 level parking?? River Place should be very close to scale to this. Vertically challenged Baton Rouge could use something like this on the downtown riverfront!

FYI- Houston's 15 Tallest Buildings were built in the 80's & 70's(13 in the 80's); Only one 40-story "office tower" Enron has been built(2002) since then. The days of 60-70+ story office towers in Houston appear to be over. Many 30-story +condo's are in the works. And one 31-story proposed office tower.

[hagetaka]

Here are some new renderings of River Place condominium tower!!! Shorter 3 and 4 story lofts with ground level retail/restaurant will be surrounding River Place.

APRIL FOOLS!!!!!!!

OK RichyB, u got me on this one. I was under the impression that they finally release what was to really be built on the spot. Houston does have a lot of nice high rise condos.

[dan326]

Here are some new renderings of River Place condominium tower!!! Shorter 3 and 4 story lofts with ground level retail/restaurant will be surrounding River Place.

APRIL FOOLS!!!!!!!

You got me too. I was wondering how they got that rendering so realistic.

Don't mean to be a traitor, but I actually like this a little more than the current design.

[dan326]

The first revised plan of RiverPlace.

[Trel-Ellis]

Here are some new renderings of River Place condominium tower!!! Shorter 3 and 4 story lofts with ground level retail/restaurant will be surrounding River Place.

Great views of sunsets too!!!

APRIL FOOLS!!!!!!!

*This is actually the Mercer Condominiums in Houston's Uptown Galleria District; this is a "close" as I can find imitation of River Place; But the 30-story/4 level parking?? River Place should be very close to scale to this. Vertically challenged Baton Rouge could use something like this on the downtown riverfront!

FYI- Houston's 15 Tallest Buildings were built in the 80's & 70's(13 in the 80's); Only one 40-story "office tower" Enron has been built(2002) since then. The days of 60-70+ story office towers in Houston appear to be over. Many 30-story +condo's are in the works. And one 31-story proposed office tower.

Damn Richy where do you get these pics??

[richyb83]

^ The first pic is from Emporis.com and the 2nd pic from the Mercer Condominium website

I just wanted to give a visualization of about how River Place might look, on top of the April Fools

LaThunder got me on the 1st April Fools earlier in the day with the BR skyline pic.

[hagetaka]

I saved this picture back in 2004, seems like they have scaled down this complex so many times. I am at the point now, I won't accept anymore, until construction finished.

As for the condo issue, why not make it a high rise luxury apartment complex, but since I'm not one looking to live there I have no reason to complain.

[tombarnes]

Are the three story buildings still part of the project? They don't particularly blend well with the towers. It makes it look as though the architect was going out of the way to hide them. Blending the towers into the existing urban fabric is one thing, but this looks a bit like a Disney set. I hope the design has matured with the passing of time.

[richyb83]

This is still the latest rendering; just one tower. It was to be 36-stories as this rendering shows(on top of a three level parking deck). Last I heard from the developer was 30-stories. It was scaled down a bit since the dramatic increase in $construction cost due to Katrina. This caused them to reshuffle during an "18 month delay". The original price tag was set for $50million, but it's now up to $75 million. He said "slow and right" rather than fast and wrong.

*This was orginally One River Place at 23-stories; then changed to the two towers you see at 27 & 17 stories called Lafayette Heights; then it was changed again to the rendering you see now River Place at 36-stories; now 30 stories.

It's going to happen sometime this Summer. The developer has too much cash invested. He has already proved skeptics wrong on the north-side of BR with the sucessful Howell Place. This dude is a visionary!

The hurricanes could have stopped this project cold in the dust; but it's not stopped!!

[richyb83]

Oh yeah...Manhattan Construction will be doing River Place, so I know it will be a prime-time development! They are currently working on the new Dallas Cowboys Stadium.

[tombarnes]

The second rendering looks better. A more monumental entrance would help, though. I hope this gets off the drawing boards soon. More residents for downtown BR will be a great thing.

[Southron]

Great project for Baton Rouge! Cities all over the country will be drooling over this kind of mixed-use project. I hope the developer gets it done.