Downtown Greensboro Developments

[beyonce245]

Don't know if this has already been mentioned. But a new specialty wine shop called Passion Fruit is slated to open in June at 318 S. Elm.

Also, the previous mentioned new greek restaurant, Opa! Taverna, has opened.

Edited May 22, 2009 by beyonce245

[cityboi]

for those interested here is the link to the new downtown design manual

http://www.greensboro-nc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/...aft_3_31_09.pdf

[cityboi]

also it looks like the Sweet Shop on South Elm near Lee Street is open. They serve 30 varieties of homemade pound cakes, coffee, outside patio deck, free wi-fi, book readings and local artists displays. Its great to see more and more restaurants open south of the tracks.

There is also live entertainment, Jazz, Strings, Opera, Pop, Blues as well as dance.

The menu:

Over 30 varieties of homemade pound cakes and counting

Coffee, Cappuccino, Tea, Expresso

Hot Chocolate

Smoothies

Bagels, Muffins, Cookies, Ice Cream

1940's Peanuts and Candies

Homemade Cobblers (Peach), Pies (sweet potato, apple) Cream pie

Baked Breads

http://www.margaretelainedesigns.com/

Edited May 29, 2009 by cityboi

[Beany]

for those interested here is the link to the new downtown design manual

http://www.greensboro-nc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/...aft_3_31_09.pdf

Thanks for posting. This has been in the works for a long time.

[twincity]

for those interested here is the link to the new downtown design manual

http://www.greensboro-nc.gov/NR/rdonlyres/...aft_3_31_09.pdf

I wonder which standards conflict with Roy Carroll's downtown plans.

http://triad.bizjournals.com/triad/stories.../01/story5.html

[beyonce245]

I wonder which standards conflict with Roy Carroll's downtown plans.

http://triad.bizjournals.com/triad/stories.../01/story5.html

That's a good question. I've looked over the proposed downtown guidelines. And while I think what the guidelines tries to accomplish is laudable, I was worried that creating more hurdles for developers to invest in downtown would result in missed opportunities.

I guess we'll have to wait and see. I normally find fault with how chummy city council members are with the real estate industry. But infill development downtown is the kind of building Greensboro needs more of, not less.

[DCB]

Dear God, what suburban style crap is he planning to build downtown if he's wanting to scuttle these plans over basic downtown design guidelines? I'm concerned we're going to get some cookie cutter complex like you'd see in the northwest with a few colonial style apartment buildings surrounded by parking lots covered in vinyl siding with a name like "The Oakes at Ballparke Pointe.

Edited May 29, 2009 by DCB

[twincity]

Dear God, what suburban style crap is he planning to build downtown if he's wanting to scuttle these plans over basic downtown design guidelines? I'm concerned we're going to get some cookie cutter complex like you'd see in the northwest with a few colonial style apartment buildings surrounded by parking lots covered in vinyl siding with a name like "The Oakes at Ballparke Pointe.

This was my initial reaction to that article. WTF does he have in mind for downtown? And he sounds a little cocky, IMO. This is my first time reading about a developer threatening to pull his projects (also emphasizing the dollar amount), if a new initiative thats designed to improve the core, doesnt conform to his plans.

[JerseyBoy]

This was my initial reaction to that article. WTF does he have in mind for downtown? And he sounds a little cocky, IMO. This is my first time reading about a developer threatening to pull his projects (also emphasizing the dollar amount), if a new initiative thats designed to improve the core, doesnt conform to his plans.

Hopefully these guidelines will weed out the developers who are only downtown to make a profit...

[beyonce245]

I think everyone should hold off on attacking Roy Carroll until more details about his other plans for downtown come out. What he's done transforming the old Wachovia building into Center Pointe has been amazing. And he plans to bring that kind of quality to other downtown projects, we should welcome it.

The article was short so we don't really know what about the downtown guidelines he has a problem with. It may have nothing to do with the design aesthetics themselves, but rather the fact that new construction will have to be approved by a new board which will oversee development downtown.

[cityboi]

I agree. too many guidelines will make it difficult for anything to get built downtown at a reasonable cost. If developers cant make the numbers work because of guidelines, they will build somewhere else. I do think there need to be some guidelines but they dont need to go overboard. I believe the city will work something out with Roy Carroll. Remember the contraversal 6 story building on Elm Street. Some were up in arms over the architecture saying it didnt fit in and the developer threatened to cancel the project. The city ended up supporting it and now the building will get built. Greensboro city leaders arent stupid. They arent about to turn down a $150 million investment in the center-city.

Edited May 30, 2009 by cityboi

[DCB]

So the city should just let a developer blackmail it into complying with their demands? What is it exactly about these guidelines that's unreasonable? We don't need a cocky developer trying to run the show with threats of taking the ball and going home. These people build for profit, they aren't running a charity and the people of Greensboro don't "owe" them a damn thing. If there's profit in it, someone else will do it.

This is the exact same line that local builders (Roy Caroll included) used in an attempt to keep the city from reinstating the protest petition several months back (despite the fact that every other city in the state had it and hadn't suffered horrible economic damage as a result.)

His plan might turn out to be great, I dunno, I haven't seen it. But the city shouldn't settle for less just because we don't think we can get anything better. This is all just my opinion anyway.

Edited May 30, 2009 by DCB

[Beany]

Is there any developer out there which is in favor of restrictions on how they have to develop their properties? He may be just against the whole idea of a design manual and flexing his muscle so to speak to discourage it. Anyway, I thought the manual was a "guide" and not a strict requirement for developments.

[JerseyBoy]

So the city should just let a developer blackmail it into complying with their demands? What is it exactly about these guidelines that's unreasonable? We don't need a cocky developer trying to run the show with threats of taking the ball and going home. These people build for profit, they aren't running a charity and the people of Greensboro don't "owe" them a damn thing. If there's profit in it, someone else will do it.

This is the exact same line that local builders (Roy Caroll included) used in an attempt to keep the city from reinstating the protest petition several months back (despite the fact that every other city in the state had it and hadn't suffered horrible economic damage as a result.)

His plan might turn out to be great, I dunno, I haven't seen it. But the city shouldn't settle for less just because we don't think we can get anything better. This is all just my opinion anyway.

I, personally, could not have said it better. For far too long, cities have been held hostage by developers who wish to bypass guidelines and restrictions in order to make money. They claim their project will generate more economic activity; however, the city is almost always left with a building that hasn't addressed the street properly and is inward focused. For Roy Carroll to say he will drop his plans if these guidelines go through says a lot about his supposed passion for downtown. Greensboro deserves better. It sounds to me like he just doesn't want to pay out extra money to redesign his project.

[krazeeboi]

Anyway, I thought the manual was a "guide" and not a strict requirement for developments.

That's how I interpreted it as well. Usually projects are evaluated on a case-by-case basis, and in the cases where variances are warranted, the city can usually work with developers. But all in all, these design guidelines are good for cities.

[morehead]

Roy Carroll assigned an employee to the committee that developed the manual named Al Leonard. Al attended the meetings faithfully as did other downtown developers including John Lomax and Milton Kern. If the manual is so restrictive, why did the other developers participate in its creation and why are they supporting it? They arguably have much more at stake in built-assets downtown than Carroll does. Why do the guidelines make sense in Charlotte and Raleigh but not in Greensboro? That seems odd.

I have spoken to many people who have seen Carroll's plans for the North State lot. It includes suburban-style buildings that are clustered in the center of the block, surrounded by parking lots. The high number of parking spaces is his requirement (parking is not required downtown).

I guess we are safe in assuming that Carroll will never invest in downtown Raleigh or Charlotte, since they have manuals that would be so restrictive to his business plan.

[beyonce245]

Roy Carroll assigned an employee to the committee that developed the manual named Al Leonard. Al attended the meetings faithfully as did other downtown developers including John Lomax and Milton Kern. If the manual is so restrictive, why did the other developers participate in its creation and why are they supporting it? They arguably have much more at stake in built-assets downtown than Carroll does. Why do the guidelines make sense in Charlotte and Raleigh but not in Greensboro? That seems odd.

I have spoken to many people who have seen Carroll's plans for the North State lot. It includes suburban-style buildings that are clustered in the center of the block, surrounded by parking lots. The high number of parking spaces is his requirement (parking is not required downtown).

I guess we are safe in assuming that Carroll will never invest in downtown Raleigh or Charlotte, since they have manuals that would be so restrictive to his business plan.

I'll reiterate that my main concern is not the guidelines themselves, but rather the new board that will govern them. The parts of downtown that will be covered by the guidelines are most likely going to be rezoned (see above). If that's the case, why is this new board necessary? Projects should be allowed to go through the regular permitting and zoning process.

Do you have links to Carroll's proposed plans for the North State lot? I'd be interested to see them. If they are as you described, then I would certainly be opposed to them.

[cityboi]

I think the area of most concern would be the historic district. Developers have respected the historical character without a guide. Smother Place Loft is a prime example

[cityboi]

UNCG eyes downtown property for pharmacy school

The site is next to the Greensboro Children's Museum (old Duke Power site). Everyone might remember that a few years ago this same land was being eyed for the "Greensboro Triumph Center"

http://www.news-record.com/content/2009/06...pharmacy_school

[beyonce245]

Thanks for the post city.

It's great the Greensboro has such generous and involved foundations like the Weaver and Bryan foundations, who often step up when our elected officials refuse to do so.

I this would be a great location, not only because it would encourage more development in that area of downtown, but because there is a parking deck right across the street. Hopefully that will minimize, if not eliminate the need to build a surface lot.

It would be even better if the university built some retail space into its facility to spur more retail investment in that area.

[cityboi]

Thanks for the post city.

It's great the Greensboro has such generous and involved foundations like the Weaver and Bryan foundations, who often step up when our elected officials refuse to do so.

I this would be a great location, not only because it would encourage more development in that area of downtown, but because there is a parking deck right across the street. Hopefully that will minimize, if not eliminate the need to build a surface lot.

It would be even better if the university built some retail space into its facility to spur more retail investment in that area.

not to mention the main library is across the street so the location is fitting and its on the Market/Friendly university corridor

[Beany]

Thanks for posting the news link.

I think this could be good or bad depending on how the university develops it. What I don't want to see is another parking lot fronting church street and a building set back away from the road.

[beyonce245]

Thanks for posting the news link.

I think this could be good or bad depending on how the university develops it. What I don't want to see is another parking lot fronting church street and a building set back away from the road.

Well, the above-mentioned downtown guidelines would most likely be in place by then so that isn't likely to happen. Plus, UNCG has been really great with efficient use of its one campus, which is quite small. The last residential building they built included an underground parking deck.

[beyonce245]

Public art is coming to the parking deck at Washington and Greene. Artist Ron Fondaw will be sprucing up the exterior of the deck as part of gift from the Cemala Foundation in honor of Greensboro's centennial.

Work could start as early as next week. Sounds pretty cool.

Here's the link.

[cityboi]

Here is the full article as to why Roy Carroll threatened to scrap $130 million worth of projects. Carroll sort of indicates he has plans for high-rise structures based on his concerns he describes. Carroll has a $45 million project planned for the lot next to Center Pointe. To put things in perspective in how big that project could be, the Center Pointe project cost about $37 million and renovation can typically cost more than new construction. At that price on a lot that small, you can only build a high-rise. There is no room to build outward because the lot is the size of the footprint of Center Pointe. $40 million dollars in new construction can build a 20 to 30-story building. Other projects Roy Carroll has planned includes a $60 million project on the county’s former tax office on Eugene Street across the street from the ballpark (which he indicated earlier would be a mid-rise to high-rise structure) and a $23 million project at the old North State property adjacent to the ballpark where Bellemeade Village was going to go.

http://sanjose.bizjournals.com/sanjose/oth...&s=industry

"Carroll said he has concerns with having to either break up retaining walls, terrace them or set them back with a landscape buffer; with having to set upper stories on a high-rise building away from the sidewalk." Looks like Roy Carroll kinda let the cat out of the bag ;)

"Ed Wolverton, president and CEO of Downtown Greensboro Inc., said that other cities in the state, including Charlotte, Raleigh, Asheville, Wilmington and Chapel Hill, have all passed downtown design overlay districts and haven’t found them to inhibit development.

Wolverton said city staff and downtown supporters are working with Carroll to address his concerns. He said the manual includes broad provisions for developers to propose alternatives to standards, without having to wait for the next monthly planning or zoning meeting"

I dont think Roy Carroll will scrap his projects once he understands the guide will not negatively affect what he has planned.

We all knew that Carroll was considering a taller building twice the height next to Center Pointe and the fact that the side of Center Pointe that faces his lot has no balconies confirms this. Call it planning ahead......

My guess is that it will be another mixed-use building that combines residential and office but may have a lot more office space since downtown office vacancy is at an all time low. He could decide to go with Luxury apartments in the second building instead of condos. Apartments rent out a lot faster than condos sell. While the first rendering depicts a taller twin, the second building might be a different design all together that would compliment Center Pointe. A tower nearly twice the height of downtown's tallest buildings would be a dramatic change to Greensboro's skyline and might even be tall enough to be seen from points along the interstates.

Edited June 9, 2009 by cityboi