Downtown Greensboro Developments

[krazeeboi]

so a 30-story tower is not realistic?

I didn't say that. That would ultimately depend on the mix of uses, footprint, etc. But being that downtown hasn't had a tower built in around 20 years, for a city the size of Greensboro with a local economy that doesn't really lend itself to a lot of highrise construction, it's much more realistic to think that the next few towers will be in the neighborhood of 20 stories as opposed to 30 and 40 stories, although it may land one in that higher range. To the best of my knowledge, just about all towers that have recently been built in cities of comparable size to Greensboro in the South have been around 20 stories or so. The one notable exception I can think of is the RSA Battle House Tower in Mobile, and there were some political reasons behind that one. Even here in Charlotte, while we've got our tall ones, we're still building even more in the 20-story range.

I suppose it was just your use of the word "need" that irked me a bit. For a city that doesn't get a whole lot of highrise construction in the first place, to say "we don't need anymore 20-story buildings for a while" just sounds a bit out there. I know you were speaking aesthetically, but like I said, you've got to temper that with some realism.

[cityboi]

I didn't say that. That would ultimately depend on the mix of uses, footprint, etc. But being that downtown hasn't had a tower built in around 20 years, for a city the size of Greensboro with a local economy that doesn't really lend itself to a lot of highrise construction, it's much more realistic to think that the next few towers will be in the neighborhood of 20 stories as opposed to 30 and 40 stories, although it may land one in that higher range. To the best of my knowledge, just about all towers that have recently been built in cities of comparable size to Greensboro in the South have been around 20 stories or so. The one notable exception I can think of is the RSA Battle House Tower in Mobile, and there were some political reasons behind that one. Even here in Charlotte, while we've got our tall ones, we're still building even more in the 20-story range.

I suppose it was just your use of the word "need" that irked me a bit. For a city that doesn't get a whole lot of highrise construction in the first place, to say "we don't need anymore 20-story buildings for a while" just sounds a bit out there. I know you were speaking aesthetically, but like I said, you've got to temper that with some realism.

Dont forget the 34-story Wachovia tower in Winston and the old Wachovia tower is close to 30. But the fact that its been 20 years means Greensboro is probably due for another tower, especially since DGI announced last year that some developers were proposing office projects. Office vacancy downtown is extremely low. But don't forget Greensboro already has a building hovering near 30-stories and thats the Sheraton Four Seasons. So a 30-story building downtown is not out of the question and is realistic.

Edited June 11, 2009 by cityboi

[beyonce245]

How about we instead focus on Roy Carroll's recent opposition to the design guide.

He and his wealthy development friends are making a big huge stink over the proposed downtown design manual. I would never normally cite to the Rhino times because I think it's trash. But John Hammer did an ok job reporting about the brouhaha that went down at this week's zoning board meeting.

Mary Skenes, who's quoted in the Hammer piece, is cozy with developers. She's even Mike Barber's campaign manager. Talk about political patronage. She made some idiotic point about how 60% of the committee that designed the manual aren't even downtown property owners. Even if that's true, guidelines for development in downtown shouldn't be based solely on want developers want. It's Greensboro's downtown, not theirs. And where the hell do these business owners and developers think their profits come from, the sky? From people who go to the stuff downtown.

And all of them need to stop pretending like the business ventures in downtown are solely private. Carroll got $2 million in incentives to rehab the Wachovia building. And the developer who's planning the new building on S. Elm got property from the city worth $100,000. Now I'm not saying that I don't support incentives for downtown and infill development. In fact, I vigorously support them and I would vote for them if given the opportunity. But that doesn't negate that fact that many of the developers are making private profits, in part, because of assistance from taxpayer dollars.

Now, these guidelines may not be perfect. But all in all, I think they will be good for downtown. That doesn't mean they can't be tweaked. Everybody just needs to come together to make downtown better.

Edited June 16, 2009 by beyonce245

[krazeeboi]

Dont forget the 34-story Wachovia tower in Winston and the old Wachovia tower is close to 30. But the fact that its been 20 years means Greensboro is probably due for another tower, especially since DGI announced last year that some developers were proposing office projects. Office vacancy downtown is extremely low. But don't forget Greensboro already has a building hovering near 30-stories and thats the Sheraton Four Seasons. So a 30-story building downtown is not out of the question and is realistic.

I don't disagree with any of this. But it's not as if the next several towers to be built in downtown Greensboro will all be 30-story+ towers, which is essentially what you said you'd like to see. Out of the next several to go up, whatever time frame we're looking at here, most will be 20 stories and under.

[krazeeboi]

How about we instead focus on what big ass Roy Carroll is being. Don't get me wrong. He's done excellent work with Center Pointe, and I'd love to see him do more work in downtown.

But he and his wealthy development friends are making a big huge stink over the proposed downtown design manual. I would never normally cite to the Rhino times because I think it's trash. But John Hammer did an ok job reporting about the brouhaha that went down at this week's zoning board meeting.

Wow, this is quite interesting. But other developers in cities with design guidelines have no problem getting their projects approved, and sometimes they aren't even the best designs. Guidelines like this are normal in a city Greensboro's size. I really hope city leaders don't bow to these developers and scrap the guidelines altogether; that would be horrible. Putting guidelines like these in place ensure that downtown doesn't get another First Citizens building; it's one of the worst offenders I've ever seen at the street level.

[beyonce245]

Wow, this is quite interesting. But other developers in cities with design guidelines have no problem getting their projects approved, and sometimes they aren't even the best designs. Guidelines like this are normal in a city Greensboro's size. I really hope city leaders don't bow to these developers and scrap the guidelines altogether; that would be horrible. Putting guidelines like these in place ensure that downtown doesn't get another First Citizens building; it's one of the worst offenders I've ever seen at the street level.

First Citizens building where? In Greensboro?

[krazeeboi]

^Yes, the one that fronts S. Elm.

[beyonce245]

^Yes, the one that fronts S. Elm.

Can you expound further. What's bad about the building?

[krazeeboi]

What's good about it? Firstly, there's no street-level retail associated with the building. Secondly, the architecture at the street level gives the building an imposing, fortress-like feel that can actually be a bit intimidating from a pedestrian's point of view. It just sucks at the street level. I know there are worse towers elsewhere, but that one just readily came to mind as an example of what NOT to do, and I hope the guidelines help prevent that when it comes to future office construction downtown, particularly on the city's main street.

[beyonce245]

What's good about it? Firstly, there's no street-level retail associated with the building. Secondly, the architecture at the street level gives the building an imposing, fortress-like feel that can actually be a bit intimidating from a pedestrian's point of view. It just sucks at the street level. I know there are worse towers elsewhere, but that one just readily came to mind as an example of what NOT to do, and I hope the guidelines help prevent that when it comes to future office construction downtown, particularly on the city's main street.

I guess I've just never noticed. The wall on Elm Street is now covered by big trees so I guess it masks the facade of the building. I do agree that it's fortress-esque.

But at least in terms of downtown Greensboro, it's certainly not the worst, IMO.

[krazeeboi]

^Probably not. It just really jumped out at me one time when I was riding through downtown.

[beyonce245]

^Probably not. It just really jumped out at me one time when I was riding through downtown.

Well thank you for the constructive assessment. I hope these guidelines do get passed so downtown will be more pedestrian friendly and less oriented towards vehicular traffic.

[cityboi]

I don't disagree with any of this. But it's not as if the next several towers to be built in downtown Greensboro will all be 30-story+ towers, which is essentially what you said you'd like to see. Out of the next several to go up, whatever time frame we're looking at here, most will be 20 stories and under.

I agree. A series of 30-story towers are unlikely but one in the mix can be very likely in the next several years, especially if its a mixed-use building. 15 to 20 stories of office with 10 stories of residential on top makes it more likely.

Edited June 12, 2009 by cityboi

[cityboi]

I looked in an ad and noticed a new nightclub downtown (Lotus Lounge). Its an upscale "Urban Luxe" and Hip Hop night club that has flat screens everywhere and VIP seating. The ad shows photos of the interior which looks VERY posh looks like something you would see in Atlanta.

Also The city will be adding Surveillance cameras downtown on Elm Street.

Edited June 15, 2009 by cityboi

[beyonce245]

The former owners of TwoArtChicks, where Mellow Mushroom is now located, will open their partially completed new gallery, Focal Points, during next week's First Friday Art Stop.

The two owners are looking for investors and partners to complete build out of the gallery and fully open it in time for the holiday season.

[beyonce245]

Missed a few stories over the past couple of weeks. I've been working my way through a backlog of old Biz Journals.

The Biz Journal reported back on June 12th that Lindbrook Development is planning to begin construction of its 5-story S. Elm building in July.

Here's the full story:

"Lindbrook Development Services appears ready to being construction of a new building in downtown Greensboro.

In February, Lindbrook won approval from the Greensboro City Council for a $100,000 forgivable loan to buy a city parking lot next to property in the 300 block of South Elm St.

At a briefing for downtown supporters last week, city officials said construction will likely begin in July.

The company plans to develop a five-story, mixed-use building for about $3.6 million. The project drew some early criticism from nearby business owners who feared selling the parking lot to Lindbrook would limit parking options for their customers.

And Lindbrook redesigned its plans for the project after some downtown property owners worried it might look too modern and not match the surrounding buildings. Supporters of a proposed downtown design manual say future projects won

Edited June 27, 2009 by beyonce245

[DCB]

That's great news. I wonder what the new design of the South Elm building will look like. My only real concern with the old design was the strange street front they had fronting Elm, so I'm hoping they fixed that. If I'm not mistaken, this will be the first semi-mid rise building built on Elm Street in quite a while.

[Beany]

Glad to see these projects moving forward. Thanks beyonce for the update.

[cityboi]

This is great news. It will be interesting to see how much of a change there is in the final design of the Linbrook development.

[cityboi]

Here is more info on the opening of Greensboro's largest night club. The upscale hip hop/urban music club called "The Lotus Lounge". Its on Lewis Street in downtown Greensboro.

"It’s big — 10,000 square feet, with room for 950 people. Two big rooms. Two bars. Eleven booths. Twenty-two glass chandeliers. At least 42 TVs. And one huge, lighted wall — 14 feet high, 30 feet long — that becomes an undulating rainbow after dark."

I guess I know what some of you are thinking.....the hip hop culture and 950 people, and the addition of another hip hop club across the street that holds 800 people a bad combination? The owner is taking steps to ensure safety of the patrons. The owner is working with the police department and he'll have more than 20 bouncers which is unheard of in any nightclub in Greensboro. There will also be a STRICT dress code. This is an upscale urban nightclub like you would see in Atlanta or New York and will have all kinds of VIP service. Its a large club with two skyboxes, multiple bars, a cabaret room and more than fifty HD video screens. Despite the perception of the "hip hop culture" I think this can be great for downtown because it shows there is cultural diversity in the nightlife downtown has to offer and thats very important.. Now all we need are more jazz/blues night clubs to really give downtown more of a big city feel. I've seen photos of the interior of this nightclub and its extremely posh. A lot of money was spent on this place and its probably the most upscale nightclub in Greensboro. With 10,000 square feet its definitely the largest.

http://www.news-record.com/content/2009/06...he_lotus_lounge

Edited June 30, 2009 by cityboi

[gso27]

I guess I've just never noticed. The wall on Elm Street is now covered by big trees so I guess it masks the facade of the building. I do agree that it's fortress-esque.

But at least in terms of downtown Greensboro, it's certainly not the worst, IMO.

One of the most dissapointing newer building in downtown Greensboro has to be the SunTrust bank. It's more suited for a surburban office park than downtown.

[Beany]

Thanks city for posting that. It is a nice place and nice addition to downtown.

[twincity]

I swear, Greensboro has the best nightlife in the state.

[cityboi]

The first video to the left on this site is a video tour of the inside

http://www.myspace.com/lotusloungegso

the official website

http://www.lotusloungegso.com/

[beyonce245]

Major construction on the International Civil Rights Museum is scheduled for completion in about three months, according to this article from the News & Record. At that time, work will begin on installation of exhibits, including a piece of the original lunch counter.

I'm really excited about this project. I drove by a few days ago and you can really see the frenzied pays that they're working at. I think this will be a great addition to downtown Greensboro.