Downtown Greensboro Developments

[cityboi]

Carroll at Bellemeade photo update. Photos courtesy of GSOCITIZEN. The Hyatt Place Hotel part of the development is coming along nicely

The lot behind the trees on the left in the photo below, directly across from the front entrance of the ballpark is the proposed site for project 561, the 561 ft tall office/hotel skyscraper which will be the tallest building in North Carolina outside of Charlotte. It will be 40 plus stories in height. 28 stories of office/hotel space will sit atop an 8 story parking deck. A spire will take the building to 561 ft. The ballpark will be surrounded by new development.

 

 

Edited November 20, 2016 by cityboi

[RALNATIVE]

On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 5:27 PM, cityboi said:

The lot behind the trees on the left in the photo below, directly across from the front entrance of the ballpark is the proposed site for project 561, the 561 ft tall office/hotel skyscraper which will be the tallest building in North Carolina outside of Charlotte. It will be 40 plus stories in height. 28 stories of office/hotel space will sit atop an 8 story parking deck. A spire will take the building to 561 ft. The ballpark will be surrounded by new development.

 

 

 

How does "28 stories of office/hotel space sitting atop an 8 story parking deck" equal a 40 plus story bldg? You just pulled that out of your ear end.

I guess when you sit around all day and daydream about what you'd like to see, anything is possible.

[cityboi]

On 11/22/2016 at 11:21 PM, RALNATIVE said:

How does "28 stories of office/hotel space sitting atop an 8 story parking deck" equal a 40 plus story bldg? You just pulled that out of your ear end.

I guess when you sit around all day and daydream about what you'd like to see, anything is possible.

Easy..... Basic math..... 28 plus 8 equals 36. Add the spire and it exceeds 40 stories tall. 

Edited December 6, 2016 by cityboi

[RALNATIVE]

9 hours ago, cityboi said:

Easy..... Basic math..... 28 plus 8 equals 36. Add the spire and it exceeds 40 stories tall. 

You call this basic math??? Do you understand what a story is?

[cityboi]

Do you understand what "tall" is? 

[KJHburg]

Maybe a Mast General store for downtown Greensboro http://www.bizjournals.com/triad/news/2016/12/06/could-mast-general-store-vf-brands-anchor-this.html?ana=e_ae_set1&s=article_du&ed=2016-12-06&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1481061743&j=76673111

[RALNATIVE]

9 hours ago, cityboi said:

Do you understand what "tall" is? 

 

What I understand is that you don't have a clue...

[cityboi]

They have taken the aerial sculpture for Lebauer Park down for the winter to prevent ice damage and will be put back up in the spring. Meanwhile park guest can enjoy and ice rink and ice slide 

[cityboi]

photo update for the Hyatt Place hotel at Carroll at Bellmeade

[urbanpirate]

Wood frame construction on a hotel?...cheap!

[cityboi]

Yep, Hyatt Place is a midrange hotel 

[cityboi]

Here is a break down of what is happening downtown. The article says there are "several planned residential towers downtown"

 

https://triad-city-beat.com/2017/02/25249/

[Rufus]

I'll say this about Downtown Greensboro, and each downtown of NC cities: They are all unique and different from one another, and it seems like they aspire to keep it that way. You have the skyscrapers of Charlotte, the mid-rises of Raleigh, the industrial resuse of Durham, the architectural preservation of Winston, the Gilded Age of Asheville, the Antebellum of Wilmington, and this really neat low-rise of Greensboro. That's not to say Greensboro shouldn't aspire for high-rises, it should. As cities urbanize, the only way to go is up. But, I do enjoy what the city has done in regards to Elm Street and Southside. There is a unique style of development happening in Greensboro, and I really feel like the next decade will see an even larger resurgence of that. I think Greensboro, for being the Crossroads of NC, was developed in such a way that has made it hard for the current urban boom to really take place. You have centuries of infrastructure that was very spatially sporadic, and you have highways and railyards that crisscross the city in such a way that has made it challenging to see development like Charlotte. 

That being said, I am excited to see what happens here, as will all of the NC cities. 

[cityboi]

it looks like downtown may get two parking decks with more than 2, 000 parking spaces. From I can read the city is working with two different developers so it looks like these decks are associated with some sort of large scale projects. Hopefully they will be designed to look less like parking decks and have street level retail incorporated into them. The decks themselves will likely be tall with that many spaces. I dont think the Bellemeade deck has 1, 000 spaces and its eight stories. Now Im really curious to see what developments are associated with these planned parking decks! What kind of developments would need that many parking spaces?  The last time the city built large parking decks, three office towers popped up. DGI president Zack Matheny alluded to several residential towers being planned in a Triad Beat article. I don't know if these decks are associated with that or something else. This would probably not be Project 561 because Roy Carroll plans to build his tower on top of his own parking deck. Whatever these projects are  , the proposals have not been publicly announced yet. I don't think this a deck associated with Union Square because its only planned to have 500 spaces at a cost of only $8 million. The two decks being planned top out at over $60 million which is a pretty big chunk of change for parking decks. 

http://www.bizjournals.com/triad/news/2017/02/07/greensboro-plans-to-build-up-to-60m-in-new-parking.html

Edited February 7, 2017 by cityboi

[cityboi]

More details on parking decks. Also the article mentions that a Westin hotel is definatly coming downtown. A construction date will be announced in spring. Hopefully by then we will have some renderings. The city would not comment on where the two decks will be built but its pretty easy to narrow it down when you look at the larger tracts of land the city already owns. One would be on land next to the future performing arts center. One site I can think of is a parking lot next to the Carolina Theatre across from city hall. Another site could be a parking lot across the street from Natty Greene's between South Elm and Greene Streets. There are a few other sites but I doubt they would build decks on the other sites because they are too far away from business activity and hotels. But judging by the cost, these are going to be some nice looking parking decks and hopefully they will be lined with street level retail. 

http://www.greensboro.com/news/city-plans-two-parking-decks-with-more-than-spaces/article_23f868a0-f1f1-5d10-9fe3-8e57d3edde49.html

Edited February 8, 2017 by cityboi

[cityboi]

Looks like developer Roy Carroll will soon make an announcement about his next downtown project. It's either the Aloft hotel, which may include mixed-use elements or Project 561. Those are the only two other plans he has in the works for downtown....at least that we know of. Roy Carroll tweeted back on February 9th....meanwhile Carroll at Bellemeade / Hyatt Place Hotel is progressing nicely. 

"Our new project for downtown Greensboro will be announced shortly. I’ve instructed our architects to make sure it has a lot of “wow factor”.

https://mobile.twitter.com/roycarrollgso

[drawscape]

Any word on when we will hear an announcement from Roy about this project?

[cityboi]

Carroll did tweet that the next project will be a $90 million development. This must be in reference to the Aloft Hotel planned to be built across from the ballpark. The price tag would indicate this is going to be more than just a hotel. I doubt this would be project 561 because that would exceed $90 million and there is no indication he has secured an anchor tenant. However DGI president Zack Matheny indicated that a residential tower near the ballpark is in the works and I believe this would likely be a part of Carroll's $ 90 million development/ Aloft Hotel. Greensboro is finally seeing Charlotte and Raleigh type downtown development.

Edited March 14, 2017 by cityboi

[HRVT]

2 hours ago, cityboi said:

Carroll did tweet that the next project will be a $90 million development. This must be in reference to the Aloft Hotel planned to be built across from the ballpark. The price tag would indicate this is going to be more than just a hotel. I doubt this would be project 561 because that would exceed $90 million and there is no indication he has secured an anchor tenant. However DGI president Zack Matheny indicated that a residential tower near the ballpark is in the works and I believe this would likely be a part of Carroll's $ 90 million development/ Aloft Hotel. Greensboro is finally seeing Charlotte and Raleigh type downtown development.

Greensboro could be well served with a NICE apartment and/or condo tower and being right next to the ballpark would be a good selling point. Connecting the A-Loft with a nice 10-12 story residential tower would bring a little pop to that area while also staying relatively feasible. Plus, at a $90 million price tag, you're not likely getting a 30 story building or anything.

[cityboi]

Im willing to bet Carroll has plans for a highrise residential tower with his Aloft Hotel. The lot is really small compared to Carroll at Bellemeade/ Hyatt Place Hotel on the east side of the ballpark. That development is $65 million and stretches a few blocks. This development will be $90 million on a much smaller lot which would likey require a parking deck. With a project that size,  you can only go up. This has to be his Aloft Hotel project because it can't be Project 561 which would easily exceed $100 million. This would explain why Aloft's website list the opening in 2020. It would take time to design and build a mixed use highrise development. Architecturally it should be nice. Carroll stated he has ordered his architects to give the design a wow factor. It would be cool to have a tower overlooking the ballpark. You will really be in a dense environment watching a baseball game with a tower and midrise hotel to the south and a massive midrise apartment complex and hotel to the east with the skyline serving as the back drop. 

Edited March 15, 2017 by cityboi

[cityboi]

9 hours ago, cityboi said:

Im willing to bet Carroll has plans for a highrise residential tower with his Aloft Hotel. The lot is really small compared to Carroll at Bellemeade/ Hyatt Place Hotel on the east side of the ballpark. That development is $65 million and stretches a few blocks. This development will be $90 million on a much smaller lot which would likey require a parking deck. With a project that size,  you can only go up. This has to be his Aloft Hotel project because it can't be Project 561 which would easily exceed $100 million. This would explain why Aloft's website list the opening in 2020. It would take time to design and build a mixed use highrise development. Architecturally it should be nice. Carroll stated he has ordered his architects to give the design a wow factor. It would be cool to have a tower overlooking the ballpark. You will really be in a dense environment watching a baseball game with a tower and midrise hotel to the south and a massive midrise apartment complex and hotel to the east with the skyline serving as the back drop. 

Here is an aerial showing Roy Carroll's projects in relationship to First National Bank Field. You can see how small the Aloft site is. Roy Carroll owns that property. He has not commented on Aloft or his $90 million development which is likely one in the same. Look how much land Carroll at Bellemeade takes up and its a $65 million development versus the small lot which is likely the site of his $90 million project. Now a typical Aloft hotel is anywhere from $18 million to $30 million, Now what would account for the other $60 million to $70 million on the Aloft site? This can only be some sort of a residential tower with a parking deck. I'm really hoping this project will include some retail & restaurants elements which is lacking in Carroll at Bellemeade. This would be Roy Carroll's second downtown high-rise project, the other being the Wachovia Building conversion to Center Pointe condos and it would be his third major downtown development.....the biggest, Project 561 is yet to come!

Now the real question I have is about SkyHouse Apartments. I know it's a high-rise apartment chain in downtown urban markets but is it like a franchise that any developer can start in a market under the SkyHouse name? What an exciting project this would be if it were a SkyHouse. But if not this would still be a game changer for downtown and downtown would have at least two new high-rises within 3 years, the other being the Westin Greensboro on South Elm Street.

There has been a lot of development around the ballpark already with the Greenway at Stadium Park Apartments and the Greenway at Fisher Park Apartments directly north of the ballpark and then are two breweries, new restaurants, a new coffee shop and a Deep Roots full service grocery store which is like a smaller version of Whole Foods. Many cities around the country like to cram all this in one development but what I like about Greensboro is that the same kind of projects happen organically around the ballpark and create a real ballpark district with real urban character. I would like to see a "Ballpark Village" in the parking lot across the street from the Aloft Hotel and Hyatt Place Hotel in the photo below. It could have a collection of restaurants, a sports bar, a billiards hall and an upscale bowling alley. There needs to be something around this ballpark that keeps things very active when baseball season is over. With two upscale hotels on opposite corners, I think the ballpark village idea would be pretty feasible.  I do know Carroll has an areas set aside for food trucks in front of Carroll at Bellemeade.

Edited March 16, 2017 by cityboi

[HRVT]

8 hours ago, cityboi said:

Im willing to bet Carroll has plans for a highrise residential tower with his Aloft Hotel. The lot is really small compared to Carroll at Bellemeade/ Hyatt Place Hotel on the east side of the ballpark. That development is $65 million and stretches a few blocks. This development will be $90 million on a much smaller lot which would likey require a parking deck. With a project that size,  you can only go up. This has to be his Aloft Hotel project because it can't be Project 561 which would easily exceed $100 million. This would explain why Aloft's website list the opening in 2020. It would take time to design and build a mixed use highrise development. Architecturally it should be nice. Carroll stated he has ordered his architects to give the design a wow factor. It would be cool to have a tower overlooking the ballpark. You will really be in a dense environment watching a baseball game with a tower and midrise hotel to the south and a massive midrise apartment complex and hotel to the east with the skyline serving as the back drop. 

With a hotel also included in the budget, I would imagine there would be $60-70 million left for the tower. That probably gives enough money for 10-12 stories. Maybe even up to 15 stories. But we're not going to be looking at a contender for Greensboro's tallest building or anything either.

It also could be something similar to the Westin Hotel in Virginia Beach Town Center where the hotel takes the first few floors (probably about 4-6 floors in this case) and the residential aspect takes the next 6-10 floors. With a parking deck taking the first couple floors, in THIS scenario, we could be looking at 14-20 floors. Again, not a contender for tallest, but it could make a dent in the skyline.

Edited March 16, 2017 by HRVT

[cityboi]

On 3/15/2017 at 10:15 PM, cityboi said:

 

HRVT you might be right about it being  in a single tower. If it does reach 20 stories that would still be beyond what anyone would expect. But another hint that Roy Carroll's $90 million planned development is the Aloft with a high-rise residential component is something Downtown Greensboro Inc. president Zack Matheny alluded to in a Triad City Beat article and apparently there is more than one residential tower planned for the ballpark area because there is a mention of "towers" in plural.

"Matheny said that the Ballpark District was “next” in terms of neighborhood activation. At the core of it is developer Roy Carroll’s megaproject starting to come together across the street, several planned residential towers and hotels" “It’s time to go vertical,” Matheny said. “There’s nowhere to go but up.”

Also if it were just an Aloft Hotel, Carroll would have publicly confirmed it because it's not a secret and its listed on Starwoods website with a 2020 opening. That fact that this is 3 years from now is also telling. But the $90 million figure is what really gives it away. No Aloft hotel cost that much so there is something being built with it and the size of the site indicates it will be tall.

Matheny also said as many as 3 cranes could go up downtown by the end of the year. The future highrise Westin Hotel would account for one of them. For an early 2019 opening, construction on the Westin would have to begin by the end of the year. There must be a third tower no one knows about yet if it's not project 561. Carroll and others did say 2017 would be a big year for downtown announcements. I have a feeling once ground is broken for the performing arts center at the end of this month, we will start hearing some of these announcements.

Edited March 17, 2017 by cityboi

[HRVT]

23 hours ago, cityboi said:

HRVT you might be right about it being  in a single tower. If it does reach 20 stories that would still be beyond what anyone would expect. But another hint that Roy Carroll's $90 million planned development is the Aloft with a high-rise residential component is something Downtown Greensboro Inc. president Zack Matheny alluded to in a Triad City Beat article and apparently there is more than one residential tower planned for the ballpark area because there is a mention of "towers" in plural.

"Matheny said that the Ballpark District was “next” in terms of neighborhood activation. At the core of it is developer Roy Carroll’s megaproject starting to come together across the street, several planned residential towers and hotels" “It’s time to go vertical,” Matheny said. “There’s nowhere to go but up.”

Also if it were just an Aloft Hotel, Carroll would have publicly confirmed it because it's not a secret and its listed on Starwoods website with a 2020 opening. That fact that this is 3 years from now is also telling. But the $90 million figure is what really gives it away. No Aloft hotel cost that much so there is something being built with it and the size of the site indicates it will be tall.

Matheny also said as many as 3 cranes could go up downtown by the end of the year. The future highrise Westin Hotel would account for one of them. For an early 2019 opening, construction on the Westin would have to begin by the end of the year. There must be a third tower no one knows about yet if it's not project 561. Carroll and others did say 2017 would be a big year for downtown announcements. I have a feeling once ground is broken for the performing arts center at the end of this month, we will start hearing some of these announcements.

I agree that the three year timeframe for opening is a dead giveaway that something else is up. My very first thought was that maybe it would be connected to Project 561 (the timing of the announcement was right around the same time that insurance company announced they were moving HQ to Greensboro if I recall). It doesn't take 3 years to build an A-Loft and if were just the hotel, they could be operational by Summer 2018 probably if they were to get moving. 

I think this year is going to be huge for development in Downtown Greensboro, at least as far as density is concerned. I'm not sure we're going to see any 25 story 300+ foot tall towers announced (and almost certainly not Project 561, which I think is on the backburner at least for now), but I think we may see a couple 12-18 story towers that may touch up to about 200 feet. Bringing residents to downtown is going to be a big key in bringing more life to downtown, leading to more jobs and more growth.

[HRVT]

Just for grins, I looked just to see about what $90 million gets you as far as size/height. I was actually fairly surprised about what can be built. The Westin Virginia Beach Town Center that I referenced earlier was built for about $100 million. Granted, this was about 10 years ago and would probably require quite a bit more money these days. But the Westin is the tallest building in Virginia at 38 stories and 508 feet. The footprint of the building itself is actually quite small. On the ground floor, there is also a little bit of retail including a Yardhouse location (which I think would do well in that location... especially on Grasshopper gamedays).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westin_Virginia_Beach_Town_Center

Again, we're not going to get a building like this for $90 million in 2017. But perhaps 25 stories or so isn't out of reach for this kind of budget. Now the question is whether the demand is there for that kind of development. I guess we'll all find out soon enough.