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Downtown Greensboro Developments


cityboi

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Downtown Greensboro Inc supports Lidl coming downtown but they are pushing for this store to be a part of a mixed-use development.

Update: city council voted 9-0 in favor of of selling the lot to Lidl. While I would prefer this to be a part of a mixed-use development, I'll still support it. One point was made by one of the city council persons. On the north end of downtown there is another grocery store........Deep Roots Market. It too is laid out like the Lidl store will be laid out in terms of stand alone store with a parking lot. While this is not the best case scenario for the Lidl lot, it can still attract other development on nearby lots that can be more mixed-use. Lidl may change direction and build something more mixed-use but if they don't, I'll still support a big name grocer coming downtown. Downtown Greensboro will have two grocery stores, that says a lot in how far downtown has come. But if they are not going mixed-use, I still wish the would turn the layout around and put the store right up against Gate City Blvd so that it at least appears to be an urban style store. Architecture will also be important.

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Link to examples 

https://property.lidl.ie/location_13346/mixed-use-developments

Edited by cityboi
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Based on the plan with the sliced corner entry, the planned downtown location may get the glass design unlike the cheaper looking building on West Gate City Blvd near Sedgefield.

This will be Lidl's first downtown location in North Carolina. It will be a decent sized store at 30,000 square feet. By comparison Deep Roots Market on the north side of downtown is only 10,600 square feet so Lidl will roughly be 3 times larger. It will be about the size of the Whole Foods grocery store in uptown Charlotte.

Btw, I've heard rumors about plans for a third Lidi store in Greensboro at Pisgah Church Rd and Martinsville Rd.  on the north side of town.

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Notice the sliced corner which matches the photo. While it may be a cookie cutter design, I think it fits better in downtown Greensboro than the other design layouts.

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Here is the cheaper looking Lidl in south Greensboro which doesn't have that sliced corner entry. I would just cry if they went with this design. Looks like an Advanced Auto Parts store.

a9237b27-93b8-40e7-852d-972bc1d325e3_1140x641.jpg

Edited by cityboi
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Even if they do go with the nicer design, that glass corner would be facing the parking lot, not the street, at least according to the site plan. The street frontage will likely get a blank wall. It also seems like the city threw away most of its leverage to get a better project by unanimously supporting the proposal last night. I think it's a pipe dream to think that Lidl would attempt a mixed-use project on their own here, regardless of what they've done in other places. Although they've got 7 (!) years to start construction, so who knows.

All of that being said, it is good to see a grocery store going to an area that really needs one. Could be a nice amenity to support residential growth in the surrounding area.

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1 minute ago, jthomas said:

Even if they do go with the nicer design, that glass corner would be facing the parking lot, not the street, at least according to the site plan. The street frontage will likely get a blank wall. It also seems like the city threw away most of its leverage to get a better project by unanimously supporting the proposal last night. I think it's a pipe dream to think that Lidl would attempt a mixed-use project on their own here, regardless of what they've done in other places. Although they've got 7 (!) years to start construction, so who knows.

All of that being said, it is good to see a grocery store going to an area that really needs one. Could be a nice amenity to support residential growth in the surrounding area.

That's why I struggle with this. I really want it to be mixed use and they have up to 6 years or so due to ground contamination. So there is hope. However, this store is badly needed being in a food desert. My support is lukewarm but I still support it.

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Yes a grocery store is very important to growing a downtown residential base.  For many years uptown Charlotte had the Tiny Teeter which is less than 10K sq ft then the Whole Foods opened as a part of apartment complex.  Raleigh now has  it downtown Publix with 7 levels of apartments above it called Peace.  

this grocery store should attract more residents downtown and maybe one day itself will be redeveloped but this is a very important first step.  

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New Guilford County Sheriff's headquarters on the way.  The old  county jail will be torn down and this will be built in its place. Even though the old county jail is nothing special at all in terms of architecture, I kind of hate they are tearing down a 9 to 10 story structure for a two story building. Instead I'd prefer them to reclad the exterior so that it looks more like and office building, use the first two or three floors for office space for the Sheriff's department and renovate the jail space on the upper floors for inmate overflow.

https://www.rhinotimes.com/news/new-sheriffs-department-headquarters-finally-on-the-way/

 

New-sheriffs-Headquarters-picture-e16452

Old jail 

old-jail.jpg

Edited by cityboi
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From what I’ve heard, the idea of renovating the old jail building was explored. Unfortunately, it is essentially a concrete bunker, and retrofitting it for modern telecommunications would be very expensive and potentially not at all feasible. Tearing it down and building a new building is actually cheaper than renovating the old structure.

 

PS - If you like this tear down, then you’ll really like what happens when the new sheriff’s office is complete. The plan is to tear down the current sheriff’s office (historic house on Eugene Street + Otto Zenke-designed building behind) and replace it with - a surface parking lot! Greensboro urbanism is on a roll lately!

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16 hours ago, jthomas said:

From what I’ve heard, the idea of renovating the old jail building was explored. Unfortunately, it is essentially a concrete bunker, and retrofitting it for modern telecommunications would be very expensive and potentially not at all feasible. Tearing it down and building a new building is actually cheaper than renovating the old structure.

 

PS - If you like this tear down, then you’ll really like what happens when the new sheriff’s office is complete. The plan is to tear down the current sheriff’s office (historic house on Eugene Street + Otto Zenke-designed building behind) and replace it with - a surface parking lot! Greensboro urbanism is on a roll lately!

Unbelievable they would tear down the historical building.

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  • 1 month later...
Posted (edited)

More development in downtown Greensboro

On the way. Roy Carroll has eliminated the office tower at Carroll South of the Ballpark but there will be a major development at the corner of Martin Luther King Jr Drive and South Elm Street.

In addition there will be three new downtown apartment communities and 10 new restaurants along with continued construction of the Westin Hotel and AC Hotel. A shipping container hub is in the works as well.

The other two apartment complexes on the way are Greenway North Apartments and Cedar Apartments 

https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/news/local/watch-live-state-of-downtown-greensboro-and-what-comes-next/83-2e9463bb-5004-4854-a465-813d221b10a9

https://www.bizjournals.com/triad/news/2022/04/08/downtown-greensboro-celebrates-growth.html

Lofts @ 110 MLK

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Carroll South of Ballpark 

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Proposed shipping container retail hub near the Depot.

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Edited by cityboi
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17 minutes ago, cityboi said:

More development in downtown Greensboro

On the way. Roy Carroll has eliminated the office tower at Carroll South of the Ballpark but there will be a major development at the corner of Martin Luther King Jr Drive and South Elm Street.

In addition there will be three new downtown apartment communities and 10 new restaurants along with continued construction of the Westin Hotel and AC Hotel. A shipping container hub is in the works as well.

https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/news/local/watch-live-state-of-downtown-greensboro-and-what-comes-next/83-2e9463bb-5004-4854-a465-813d221b10a9

https://www.bizjournals.com/triad/news/2022/04/08/downtown-greensboro-celebrates-growth.html

Lofts @ 110 MLK

Screenshot_20220408-124813_Chrome.jpg

Carroll South of Ballpark 

e9c515b7-5edc-4f95-865f-3871862313bb_1920x1080.jpg

These are exactly the kinds of projects the city should be aiming for downtown now. 

With the crazy demand for apartments right now, I wonder if a story or two might get added to the SOB project. I suspect the demand could handle an 8-10 story apartment building.

Edited by HRVT
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6 minutes ago, HRVT said:

These are exactly the kinds of projects the city should be aiming for downtown now. 

With the crazy demand for apartments right now, I wonder if a story or two might get added to the SOB project. I suspect the demand could handle an 8-10 story apartment building.

Its not surprising the office tower was eliminated. Covid-19 did a number on the office market but I'm totally fine with that. Looks like a great development Carroll is putting together and you never know he may add some apartment stories 

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8 minutes ago, HRVT said:

These are exactly the kinds of projects the city should be aiming for downtown now. 

With the crazy demand for apartments right now, I wonder if a story or two might get added to the SOB project. I suspect the demand could handle an 8-10 story apartment building.

Yes - this is all great news. 

I highly doubt that SOB will get any taller, but it doesn't have anything to do with demand. I would bet the farm that these apartments will be 5-over-1 podium buildings - in other words, 5 stories of wood framed apartments over 1 story of non-combustible construction. This is a relatively cost-effective construction method, and 6-7 stories is the practical limit due to building codes. Anything taller needs to be all steel or concrete, which is more expensive. I don't know that they'd be able to get the rents necessary to support the higher construction cost.

It's great to see several projects in the works - I'd love to see 10 more just like them.

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20 minutes ago, jthomas said:

Yes - this is all great news. 

I highly doubt that SOB will get any taller, but it doesn't have anything to do with demand. I would bet the farm that these apartments will be 5-over-1 podium buildings - in other words, 5 stories of wood framed apartments over 1 story of non-combustible construction. This is a relatively cost-effective construction method, and 6-7 stories is the practical limit due to building codes. Anything taller needs to be all steel or concrete, which is more expensive. I don't know that they'd be able to get the rents necessary to support the higher construction cost.

It's great to see several projects in the works - I'd love to see 10 more just like them.

You're probably right about the construction style limiting height here, but this rendering does appear to see SOB at 8 stories closer to the ballpark (I think). If a change to steel/concrete construction is required, no height will be added (its a good project as is). If it's already going to be steel/concrete, then *perhaps* added height is a possibility. Not likely, I know but maybe.

Like you said, we need more but these projects are a MASSIVE step in the right direction. Now to execute (another major Greensboro flaw over the years).

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DGI president Zack Matheny mentioned that several city leaders were working on a "major" unnamed project for downtown. Its related to entice the Atlantic Coast Conference to keep its conference office in Greensboro

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22 minutes ago, cityboi said:

DGI president Zack Matheny mentioned that several city leaders were working on a "major" unnamed project for downtown. Its related to entice the Atlantic Coast Conference to keep its conference office in Greensboro

So when the ACC moves to Charlotte anyway, does that mean the project is dead?

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3 hours ago, GSOstrong said:


I don’t understand how people can be so negative about their own city.


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The ACC has been clamoring to move to Charlotte for years. John Swofford was the only hurdle and he retired.

Phillips gets the job and almost immediately they study the best location for HQ.

It would be a huge shock if it didn't happen.

Heck, the ACC's stated criteria for its next HQ literally describes Charlotte to a T.

Edited by HRVT
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I honestly believe most people around here still wish this was “Greensborough” with nothing but dirt roads and train tracks with the neighbors miles apart.


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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...
On 5/20/2022 at 9:53 AM, jthomas said:

This is pushing the boundaries of downtown, but this could be a major project if it is fully built out:

https://www.bizjournals.com/triad/inno/stories/news/2022/05/20/steelhouse-redevelopment-project-nussbaum-center.html

The Nussbaum Center for Entrepreneurship is renovating the former Carolina Steel plant on South Elm-Eugene Street. The project is called the Steelhouse, and consists of over 200,000 square feet of space. The buildout will take place in several phases, and will include ghost kitchens, maunfacturing space, additional start-up office space, and community spaces that could include a food hall and brewery. The Forge makerspace has already committed to relocate to the Steelhouse from their Lewis Street location, which will allow them to double their square footage and grow their membership.

If this project is successful, it could really serve as a catalyst for redevelopment of the entire South Elm corridor.

This would be amazing. Greensboro has gotten behind on the whole food hall idea but obviously there's a lot more than this to it. Anything to lower barriers to entry for the successful build of small business is a win.

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