Governor

[BGIII]

Some are very easily swayed and can misinterpret a message any number of ways.

[Weallneedhistory]

Good Grief!

I read UP at nights, after work. Last night this thread was about the Governor. What a difference a day makes! Abortion, Promise Keepers?

Back to the Governor's race.

I guess I haven't really heard a solid reason NOT to vote for DeVos.

His biggest criticisms I have heard is that 1. He's too rich. 2. He's too religious 3. He's just buying his way, or aspiring to be President. Give me a reason why I shouldn't vote for DeVos that doesn't include any of those three choices. And then also tell me if you think Granholm's Economic Plan that she "Set in Motion" has started working, or if it will work. If you don't think it will work, or hasn't worked, then why not give someone else a chance? He will not start a Theocracy in Michigan, and I wouldn't worry about Abortion being instantly outlawed, the Supreme Court protected that one, whether you agree or not.

IMHO

[torgo]

Good Grief!

I read UP at nights, after work. Last night this thread was about the Governor. What a difference a day makes! Abortion, Promise Keepers?

Back to the Governor's race.

I guess I haven't really heard a solid reason NOT to vote for DeVos.

His biggest criticisms I have heard is that 1. He's too rich. 2. He's too religious 3. He's just buying his way, or aspiring to be President. Give me a reason why I shouldn't vote for DeVos that doesn't include any of those three choices. And then also tell me if you think Granholm's Economic Plan that she "Set in Motion" has started working, or if it will work. If you don't think it will work, or hasn't worked, then why not give someone else a chance? He will not start a Theocracy in Michigan, and I wouldn't worry about Abortion being instantly outlawed, the Supreme Court protected that one, whether you agree or not.

IMHO

[Weallneedhistory]

The biggest beef I have with DeVos (I'll probably vote for him anyways) is that he seems like a robot to me. That just bugs me to no end. There is nothing wrong with answering a question and acting like a real human being.

[civitas]

I really like DeVos' "Made in Michigan" initiative to Japan and the idea of him taking control of the MEDC. A guy with his contacts and influence will have a major advantage in that department.

Below is from DeVos today.

Here are the straightforward specific steps I'll take to take Michigan in a new direction, starting Day One:

1) Take charge of the MEDC and Michigan's economic development myself.

2) Call an immediate special session of the legislature in order to find a replacement for the Single Business Tax.

3) Send a supplemental budget to the legislature that increases funding for higher education and creates a merit pay program for teachers.

4) Sign an executive order creating one-stop shopping for small business, slashing permitting time to 30 days, cutting red tape, solving problems and speeding job creation.

5) Convene a meeting of my cabinet and give them this simple instruction: If an action creates good jobs do it. If it hurts job creation, don't.

6) Launch a 'Made in Michigan' initiative, starting with a trade office in Japan to serve as a gateway for Michigan companies wanting to do business in the Asian marketplace. The Japan trade office will be the first of ten trade offices we'll open in the first year.

7) Invest in consistently promoting Michigan as a tourism destination.

8) Direct the Lt. Governor, Ruth Johnson, to immediately begin a top-down review of every department and program in state government. Her mission - eliminate programs that are no longer necessary and shape up programs that aren't giving taxpayers their money's worth.

9) Personally visit the Department of Human Services and meet with employees who are struggling to meet the needs of children who are victims of abuse.

10) Meet with Detroit Mayor Kwame Kilpatrick and tell him that Detroit's success is critical to Michigan's success.

That's what I'll do and it'll make more change within 48 days of a DeVos Administration than Governor Granholm has in 48 months.

[Weallneedhistory]

Just saw that Granholm ad, the one with DeVos setting up the Governors office in Bermuda.

I find it so ridiculous (not that all of DeVos' ads are that much better.) I'm happy my money didn't go towards any of those commercials.

[6th Gen local]

*shrug* I never claimed that Amway was illegal in the United States. Some people find Amway "obnoxious" and others an affront to society. I tried asking for people's opinions on the Dateline Quixtar story, because I was curious about how other people view that type of business model. But not a single person responded (except for GRdadof3 who said he wasn't a fan of Dateline, so I assume he didn't bother to check out the video link).

[6th Gen local]

Pretty soon we'll regress to back alley and do-it-yourself abortions. Who wants that? We've fought too hard to get away from those times.

IMO.

[Veloise]

I guess I am, come to think of it. Someone has to stand up to these guys. I think women have become way too complacent over the years ...

[Veloise]

I think its been required now that every girl entering public school must be given the shot.

[tamias6]

How this "Govenor" thread turned into a Mars vs. Venus debate is beyond me. Anyway, what's got to be remembered is that the Governor is not a dictator so if the canadate you don't like wins it's not going to be the end of the universe. There is somthing called checks and balances here that mediates opposing political forces. Devos supporters won't get every last bit of his agenda into law nor will Granholm supporters see all of her aganda put into effect.

As for the canadates themselves, both have strengths and weaknesses. Not ethier of them is going to be a perfect match to any individual's political and moral beliefs. So that in mind when I cast my vote, I will do so after making a calculation to determine who more closely matches what I think is the ideal governer, weighing all factors equally.

[RustTown]

Umm...DeVos will get A LOT more of what he wants than Granholm could ever get what she wants for the sole fact that both the legislature and state supreme court are controlled by Republicans. You might as well throw checks and balances out of the window with the way politics are now played. You want to see a good example of modern checks and balances? Go check out our current national Congress, or just look over the border into Ohio to see how well "checks and balances" have worked. lol People don't seem to get how very important this gubernatorial election is. It's funny the state GOP tries to spin four more years of Granholm as more of the same considering they've been in power in Michigan for decades, now. If anything is "more of the same" it's this state Republican controlled congress and court who've had more to do with Michigan's downfall than anything Granholm did or didn't do in her four years. If Michigan wants business-as-usual or more of the same than they can keep re-electing those that represent what the GOP has become over the last 20-25 years.

[civitas]

...but first a few right-wing (guess which party) male legislators had to debate promiscuity...

[BGIII]

..so I'll say that I think todays conversation was good. We discussed some things that may never be resolved, but it is good to talk these things through and hopefully we learned a little from each other. Although we may never agree on some things, I think this list represents a group of people who care deeply about their community and the people around them and it is my pleasure debating issues with passionate people. Thanks for the conversation.

[Budgie Frisket]

civitas,

I would say a lot of accusations have been thrown out so far in this thread with no real examples or backup. I still want to know what all the fear is about and how Republicans, Christians and white men are making this country such a fearful place for women. I've asked for answers more than once with no response. I fall into all three of those categories to varying degrees and I think if you

[GRDadof3]

5) Convene a meeting of my cabinet and give them this simple instruction: If an action creates good jobs do it. If it hurts job creation, don't.

[Budgie Frisket]

This one by Devos concerns me a bit. There are actually some issues (like protecting the Great Lakes and our natural resources) that may actually hurt job creation. I hope he realizes it's not always so black and white.

And in response to Budgie's philosophy, I have to totally disagree. I think we've entered the "age of women". If she only knew how much power women really have over the world now, especially in familial households. When it comes to major life-altering decisions like purchasing a home, when to have children, paying the bills, where to invest, where to live, where the kids go to school, neighborhood and community involvement, women overwhelmingly control the cards. I've seen it personally and read it in study after study.

It may not be that way at the upper levels of government or corporations, but it's happening at the grass roots and household level. Especially in minority households (primarily African American communities). Are there exceptions, sure. You can call me crazy, but I truly believe Roe v. Wade (which was a civil suit, not a criminal suit) will be overturned by a huge class action lawsuit in about 20 years, brought on by a women's organization.

[GRDadof3]

I don't think you're crazy. But I do disagree with your take on women holding the cards. I don't think women have half the power you think they do. We are still condescended to, preyed upon, etc. etc.

If we are so powerful, why aren't there more of us in top government? That's where the power is.

[Budgie Frisket]

I'm talking about the generations after the baby boomers mainly. Most corporations and the higher levels of government are run by people in their 50's. As they age and retire, trust me it will shift (and it has already begun to shift). Besides, there are many many women in political, corporate and judicial power. It's not a bad thing at all. It's just the cycle of civilization.

Condescended to? By whom, car salesmen and the phone guy? They hardly have any power.

[starrfish]

Condescended to? By whom, car salesmen and the phone guy? They hardly have any power.

[Rizzo]

I don't think you're crazy. But I do disagree with your take on women holding the cards. I don't think women have half the power you think they do. We are still condescended to, preyed upon, etc. etc.

If we are so powerful, why aren't there more of us in top government? That's where the power is.

[civitas]

I don't think you're crazy. But I do disagree with your take on women holding the cards. I don't think women have half the power you think they do. We are still condescended to, preyed upon, etc. etc.

If we are so powerful, why aren't there more of us in top government? That's where the power is.

[GRDadof3]

My point is that men like this are a dying breed. They are the last vestiges of male neanderthal power tripping. And even the "car salesmen" are having to adapt. Have you noticed how car dealerships feel more and more like a Panera Bread Co. and less and less like a mechanic's garage? Have you noticed that every builder in the country puts homes and condos in the Parade of Homes and has decorated sales models with feminine designer touches? Hmm, that's two of the biggest purchases in most households. How about the explosion of women in financial consulting and accounting fields? Why do you think that is? Why do automakers, computer makers, and every other maker of plastic parts continue to pursue innovations in rapidly growing "soft touch" technologies? It's not to appeal to men, that's for sure. There are countless other examples of these trends. I'm not referring to problems in low income areas with spousal abuse, single mothers, I'm referring to the majority middle class of this country.

Are we at gender equality today? In many areas no, especially with pay. But that gap is shrinking. I certainly don't see it trending the other way like apparently you or Budgie do.

Like Rizzo, I grew up with a lot of sisters, and I'm now surrounded by women . I'm certainly not complaining though.

That's what I believe and you won't change my feelings on it. Sorry.

[Rizzo]

My point is that men like this are a dying breed. They are the last vestiges of male neanderthal power tripping. And even the "car salesmen" are having to adapt. Have you noticed how car dealerships feel more and more like a Panera Bread Co. and less and less like a mechanic's garage? Have you noticed that every builder in the country puts homes and condos in the Parade of Homes and has decorated sales models with feminine designer touches? Hmm, that's two of the biggest purchases in most households. How about the explosion of women in financial consulting and accounting fields? Why do you think that is? Why do automakers, computer makers, and every other maker of plastic parts continue to pursue innovations in rapidly growing "soft touch" technologies? It's not to appeal to men, that's for sure. There are countless other examples of these trends. I'm not referring to problems in low income areas with spousal abuse, single mothers, I'm referring to the majority middle class of this country.

Are we at gender equality today? In many areas no, especially with pay. But that gap is shrinking. I certainly don't see it trending the other way like apparently you or Budgie do.

Like Rizzo, I grew up with a lot of sisters, and I'm now surrounded by women . I'm certainly not complaining though.

That's what I believe and you won't change my feelings on it. Sorry.

[GRobserver]

Back to the election, here's a great read for those of you interested in Granholm's promises from 4 years ago and how many were kept or are still on track, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/10/18/171028/49

Lots of good info/substance there.

I LOL'd at the "Michicor" comment.