Person Street

[Jones_]

Orulz, the pdf explains much of what you brought up. Apparently the project is required to have two egress points...not sure when that kicks in....also, imo, as with the developer, the commercial aspect facing slower Franklin street instead of noisier, harder to talk over a cup of coffee Person makes better sense..I know Third Place does this trick just fine on Glenwood, but I believe it to be an exception....from what I can tell the only 'houses' that will need removed are those projects looking duplexes along Blount...happy to see those go...anyway check it out...I signed the petition, as I feel this project, as proposed, is much better than even other nearby newish projects such as Governors Square and Sunflowers

[orulz]

Good point. I just looked at the diagrams and didn't read any of the explanation in the PDF. (you caught me!)

I think that you're right. And they do have some retail space along Person, so it's fine with me. I don't buy their arguments for why a vehicular entrance on Franklin is unsafe ("dangerously close to the junction with Blount street"... hmm...) but all the other arguments make perfect sense.

Hopefully this project gets approved like this and moves forward quickly. It's especially nice to see the folks in the surrounding neighborhood be so receptive to urban infill.

[ncwebguy]

The houses on the NE corner of the block will be preserved. The brick apartments on the west/Blount side will be demoed.

If the driveway went to Franklin, it would make the plaza stairway connection tighter, or lose some of the retail square footage.

I think the city doesn't like the traffic being put on Delway's two lanes, but most traffic coming that way uses Capitol. It is for local trips (and people like me that occassionally want a more pleasant drive into DT) only.

It isn't the "garage monster" on Hillsborough... it will probably be like the Govenor's Square entrance on Franklin appearance and traffic wise.

[orulz]

It isn't the "garage monster" on Hillsborough... it will probably be like the Govenor's Square entrance on Franklin appearance and traffic wise.

No, you're completely right. I was wrong to draw any comparison. This project really does look pretty great. I'd kind of rather that it had only one driveway connection, but the one-way streets that surround it make it pretty much necessary to have two.

[Jones_]

No, you're completely right. I was wrong to draw any comparison. This project really does look pretty great. I'd kind of rather that it had only one driveway connection, but the one-way streets that surround it make it pretty much necessary to have two.

I do really love that garage monster though

[dmccall]

"I eat cars. Yum yum!"

[orulz]

^ And pedestrians too, if they're not careful!

[ncwebguy]

A Franklin Street driveway would probably have been an at-grade "garage monster," which I'm glad they avoided.

I hope pedestrian traffic will pick up on all four sides of the block, but most will probably come from the Person/Franklin corner and the two corners on Blount -- Peace College and Capitol Park.

[ChiefJoJo]

The Planning Commission will hold a public hearing on Franklin Plaza (& Reynolds Tower) tomorrow morning at 9am... here's the staff report that recommends denial on the basis of the safety/access issues, lack of transitional protective yards (setbacks rfom adjacent properties?)... and apparently the city guidelines recommend a widened Franklin Street (by 7.5 ft). I understand the access/safety issues, but I don't see how there's any need to widen Franklin St... that's kinda crazy for only 52 residential units, 4k sf office, 9k+ sf retail.

[foodpainter]

Oh geez, I hope people signed that petition at www.trianglelocations.com. I am so tired of looking at that awful block and hearing about this project for three years now. Even weird traffic pattern is A LOT better than what is there now.

[ncwebguy]

I watched Tuesday's planning commission's hearing on this project last night, but had to leave right when the developer's representative started making their case. The city doesn't like the Delway driveway because it approaces the street from below grade to allow for partially below ground parking under the residences along Blount. The rising approach to the street limits the line of sight, especially with the Old Wake Forest bend approaching the area. NC DOT "maintains" Delway and says it doesn't want to allow a new driveway.

The project's spokesperson (lawyer?) said the city and DOT gave no indication that they were against the driveway during a site visit last year. They also pointed out that the pedestrian crosswalk was moved west to allow for line of sight considerations, so the driveway's line of sight should be similar. Also, developing Person Street Plaza would not be economically feasable if the quadplexes on Blount were still standing. They were acquired and incorporated into the project to bring up the whole area at once. The plaza mid-block on Franklin in the diagram is raised as I suspsected -- a wide porch above parking for the residences, offices and shops. The proposed configureation allows for easier access for emergency vehicles to get into and out of the complex easily from the north or south.

The city wants Franklin widened, even though it is no longer a through street to the west. Also, it can't be widened to the south due to houses already in place, so they want a half widening to the north to allow for on street parking.

As I was watching it, I was wondering why Franklin can't be made a one way street to the east? Delway is already one way to the west, so it would create a pair. The one way designation would allow for more on-street parking without widening, and pedestrians would have to worry about traffic from only one direction. It would enhance the pedestrian shopping corridor from this area through Krispy Kreme and onward to the North Blount development.

There were a lot of neighbors (residents and businesses) in attendance in favor of the proposed project as well. I had to go to dinner before the planning commission made a decision, and the N&O only reported on the Reynolds Tower. Does anyone know what action the planning commission made? Approve? Deny? Conditional approval? City and/or developer postponed to get more information?

[ChiefJoJo]

The city doesn't like the Delway driveway because it approaces the street from below grade to allow for partially below ground parking under the residences along Blount. The rising approach to the street limits the line of sight, especially with the Old Wake Forest bend approaching the area. NC DOT "maintains" Delway and says it doesn't want to allow a new driveway.

I can see their contention if the drive is from below grade up to the street. The elevation is something we can't see from a site plan. Also DOT could deny the driveway permit (access)on Delway since they have access on Franklin. Of course it's the city that is requiring the 2nd access on Delway due to the commercial space (which is minimal at 4k sf, so I don't understand that--code I guess), so the developer is in a quandry.

Also, developing Person Street Plaza would not be economically feasable if the quadplexes on Blount were still standing. They were acquired and incorporated into the project to bring up the whole area at once.

Those quadplexes can be bulldozed tomorrow and I doubt anyone would care and I wholeheartedly agree with the more comprehensive approach to this block. 9/10 times you'll get a better project rather than piecemeal over several years.

The city wants Franklin widened, even though it is no longer a through street to the west.

That seems rediculous on the face of it unless the street is 24ft wide or less--if it's ~36ft, cars can get around fine w/parking. I can't think of another project in DT where the developer was asked to widen a road. Maybe this is unique somehow.

The developer could agree to mitigate the driveway on Delway with a signal system for Delway traffic ***AND/OR*** persuade the city to drop it's push for the Franklin widening and 2nd access altogether.

EDIT: I went back and read the staff report (see above post) and the issue seems to be the rezoning of this property from 2 years ago which allowed commercial uses on a former residential street is tha "trigger for the on-street parking requirement. This block is dying for a facelift... there's gotta be a better way.

[dombalis]

Does anyone know what action the planning commission made? Approve? Deny? Conditional approval? City and/or developer postponed to get more information?

I just found out that the project has been sent to the Committee of the Whole; thus, it's still alive. What does this mean, though? Does this just mean that the council is going to keep discussing this, or is this some sort of advance in the process?

[ChiefJoJo]

I just found out that the project has been sent to the Committee of the Whole; thus, it's still alive. What does this mean, though? Does this just mean that the council is going to keep discussing this, or is this some sort of advance in the process?

Committee of the Whole = (the whole) Planning Commission... it means they will take up the issue again at the next PC meeting in 2 weeks (I think).

[ncwebguy]

Yeah, for some reason the old plaza didn't have to have on-street parking, probably because it had plenty of off-street parking. But that part of Franklin is way overdue for some upgrading, a job the city should have done a while ago. It should have asked for federal funds to help with infrastructure when Halifax Court was converted to Capitol Park.

It is good to see the plaza owner, his son and grandson step up to the plate, and they have been working on this for years. A plan to redo just the shopping center piece was approved in 2004, but they reevaluated getting the quadplexes on Blount.

The planning commission does not have any council members on it that I know of, but they make recommendations to Council for projects.

I am not working today due to the snow, so I might take a walk around and take some pictures...

[dombalis]

Just got an email from someone in the know in my CAC about the project:

At the Planning Commission public hearing last Tuesday, city staff recommended that the Commission should deny approval for the Franklin/Person street plaza project. The reason given was that their objections required such a complete redesign that there was no point in passing this to committee. The weight of staff's case seemed to shift away from the egress/ingress issue to their desire to widen Franklin Street to accommodate more parking, which would require a significant reduction in the footprint of the project...The neighborhood presence made an obvious impact on the commission and some commission members noted that there was ample precedent for outdated ordinances to be waived where necessary. The Commission referred the case to the Committee of the Whole and it is on the agenda for the meeting at 10:00 am on Tuesday, February 7.

However, at this stage it is probably best for supporters of the project to keep their powder dry. While the developer's representatives will monitor the Committee meeting, they write that they "do not anticipate the need to request neighborhood support on Tuesday. Of course any who would like to come should feel free to attend. There will definitely be a need for support in the future, both in person and by letter, fax and/or e-mail."

There is now more involved in this case than first indicated by city planning staff. The goal post has been moved. At the meeting, City staff stated that, "the City's 'Street, Sidewalk and Driveway Access Handbook' calls for an additional 7.5' right-of-way and construction of a wider street along Franklin." The proposed widening of Franklin Street is a surprise since the architect's plan involved the exact opposite. The architect's plan restores Franklin (a street which you may remember now leads nowhere) into the quiet residential street it once was, envisaging it as a pedestrian-focused adjunct to the retail/restaurant area, parking for which is within.

How much sense does this make to anyone? There is no parking shortage on Person Street, and the project sets aside space for parking. So what's the problem? Bueller?

Edited February 2, 2007 by dombalis

[ChiefJoJo]

Richard, the Mordecai CAC Chair sent this out about the PC Committee of the Whole today:

After attending the Committee of the Whole meeting this morning, I summarise what I can recollect from my waking moments:

Eric Lamb reported that he had requested permission from NC DOT for an automated traffic light on Delway and has also arranged for traffic counts on Delway, Blount and Franklin. The results, after presentation to NC DOT, should be available in two weeks.

Jim Baker and Stephen Smith of the Planning Commission expressed approval for the concept of establishing Franklin as a pedestrian-friendly zone, commenting that it would help link downtown proper to northern downtown residential areas by foot rather than by car. Application will have to be made to the Board of Adjustment to override the restrictive rule requiring the widening of the street.

The developer

[ChiefJoJo]

Update on project coming tomorrow:

Mordecai CAC Meeting

Tuesday, February 13, 7:30 PM

Hope Elementary School, 1116 N. Blount

CAC link

[ChiefJoJo]

UPDATE from the CAC:

To all those interested in seeing the Franklin Street Plaza project succeed:

Just heard from planning consultant Amanda Powell that the Committee of the Whole meeting is Tuesday, March 6 at 9:00 AM (not 10:00 as before).

The developers have made changes to Franklin Street design and driveway setback to try to meet objections from city staff and are waiting now to hear back from NC DOT regarding new traffic studies.

We learned from the last meeting that the Committee welcomes comment from the floor and that the presence of interested neighbors has a powerful influence. If we want this development to happen, we need to show all the support we can.

[foodpainter]

Our hardworking Mordecai CAC president send out this e-mail today regarding the Franklin Street Plaza. This seems like such a cool project that I'm surprised is facing so many hurdles.

Planning Commission Meeting:

Place: Council Chambers (Room 201), Municipal Building, 222 West Hargett Street.

Time: Tuesday, March 27, at 9:00 AM.

Neighborhood presence at this meeting will again be very welcome since one opponent will almost certainly be attending. It will be the first item on the agenda, which should minimize the need to stay long.

I'm sure everyone is getting tired of this but the battle continues. While it had seemed, after a favorable report from the NC Dept of Transport and the subsequent Committee of the Whole meeting on March 6, that all outstanding issues of importance had been resolved, the issues of Franklin Street widening and the Delway egress resurfaced at the March 13 Commission meeting resulting in another deferment. Most commissioners accepted the conclusion that all ingress/egress points have the potential of creating some traffic problem but that the Delway proposal was the least problematic. At the last meeting, however, one commissioner, Betsy Kane, (email: [email protected]) expressed continuing doubts and the opposition may focus on her. City staff are also continuing to press for the widening of Franklin Street which would not only greatly limit the scope of the development but also have a negative impact on the immediate neighborhood. The developers have made changes which should meet the Transitional Protective Yard requirements.

I know your time is valuable, but I suspect this last battle could be crucial. The traffic question has now been well aired. I believe that our best focus now should be (A) to preserve the pedestrian character of Franklin Street by opposing the City staff plan for street widening (since the plan provides ample parking within and it has been the architect's intention to avoid on-street parking); and (B) to ask for a speedy decision to proceed without more deferments.

If you can't attend the meeting, can you send a pleading email to the planning commission to beg for a positive decision with no more delays?

Current membership of the commission: Paul Anderson ([email protected]); Jim Baker ([email protected]); Tom Bartholomew([email protected]); Ms. Maha Chambliss ([email protected]); Dennis O. Davis ([email protected]);

Mark Everett ([email protected]); Brad Mullins ([email protected]); Charles R. Walker III ([email protected]; Stephen Smith ([email protected]); Betsy Kane, [email protected]).

Thanks to all for your great support which has already changed the odds in the project's favor.

Richard Graham-Yooll

[ChiefJoJo]

UPDATE on Franklin Plaza:

Planning Commission have approved the plan! At the meeting on March 27 they recommended the plan go forward to City Council with a minor condition regarding landscape, and granting a variance for a compromise on Franklin Street widening.

But the battle isn't over. Planning consultant Amanda Powell writes as follows:

"As you know, we now go to City Council on Tuesday, April 3rd. Since this is a new phase and a table of new decision makers, we would like to show all the community support to the council members they way it was shown to the Planning Commissioners."

City Council will debate this on Tuesday, April 3, at 1:00 PM. The hearing at Council Chambers (Room 201), Municipal Building, 222 Hargett Street is open to the public.

It is probable that opposition will again present itself at this meeting. Your continuing support is vital -- by letters to Council and/or attendance at the meeting. Our plea now is for a firm approval now that all the controversial issues have been thoroughly debated. We have had expert opinion and approval from NC Department of Transportion. Let's plead for an end to further delay!

There is a report of the last Planning Commission meeting on the web site at www.trianglelocations.com.

Email addresses of City Council members are:

[email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected]; [email protected].

Richard Graham-Yooll

Mordecai CAC co-chair

919-386-0272

I'm glad they granted a variance there. It's insane that the city would make them widen that little street. Probably just a classification situation. I bet the council will go ahead and approve it. If so, it will be a very nice addition to the Blount St-Mordecai transition area.

[ChiefJoJo]

UPDATE

At last Tuesday's meeting City Council referred this case (SP-85-06) to a Public Works committee hearing. This seemingly uncontroversial project has encountered many hurdles, but one last push should see it through.

In short, your help is needed once again. The meeting on Tuesday, April 10, will be an open hearing at which those interested will be invited to speak. Old issues, like the Delway exit, are likely to be re-hashed before new faces, i.e., City Council members who have not been party to previous discussion and will be unfamiliar with neighborhood viewpoints.

Public Works Committee Meeting:

Date & Time: Tuesday, April 10, at 1:00 pm.

Place: Room 201, Municipal Building, 222 Hargett Street.

Committee membership:

Members of City staff and three council members - Jessie Taliaferro ([email protected]); Tommy Craven ([email protected]); and Russ Stephenson ([email protected]).

Meeting Agenda:

1:00 05-62 Residential Permit Parking – Village at Pilot Mill and Capitol Park

1:15 05-63 SP-85-06 – Franklin Street Mixed Use Development

1:30 05-64 Leesville Community Park Master Plan

1:45 05-65 Sewer AR 1308 – Edwards Mill Road

Strategy:

Opponents may claim to be supportive of the project, while stating that they ask only for amendments in regard to driveway access and the extra widening of Franklin Street. So we may need to remind the committee that City staff recognized that the specific amendments, if not moderated, required an entirely new design, which would be tantamount to denial of the project. Safety concerns have been investigated by NC DOT and others and all main issues have been debated in detail over several months. The only remaining issue now, other than the relatively minor question of positioning sidewalk trees, is whether the project can or cannot go ahead.

Please attend Tuesday's meeting if you can. If not, please consider writing to the presiding council members to express your views though unable to attend.

Richard

[ChiefJoJo]

N&O article on the Franklin Plaza saga. It seems the biggest problem is that the project lies just outside the Downtown Overlay District (DOD), which regulates the city's zoning restrictions downtown. I just spoke with a Planning Commissioner about it, and apparently the developer/architect screwed up by not getting these issues addressed long ago... building setbacks, landscaping requirements, sight-distances, etc. I think everyone agrees that in concept it's a great project, but is severely lacking in execution (dotting the i's and crossing the t's). Appaently its so bad they can't even get a building permit issued, even if the council approves it.

BTW, there is a meeting in 45 min on this project:

Raleigh Public Works Committee meeting

Room 201, Raleigh Municipal Building, 222 W. Hargett St.

1 p.m. today

[oakcitybleus]

I think everyone agrees that in concept it's a great project, but is severely lacking in execution (dotting the i's and crossing the t's). Appaently its so bad they can't even get a building permit issued, even if the council approves it.

A friend has been involved with this project and told me the plan went through 4 reviews by planning staff. The issues that are holding this project back were brought up after the review process, some as late as one week before the project went before the Planning Commission. Something is amiss here...

Edited April 11, 2007 by oakcitybleus

[foodpainter]

Blip in today's N&O confirms that this project is still delayed:

http://www.newsobserver.com/722/story/562807.html

If you want to respond, here are the e-mail addresses of the members of the Public Works committee:

[email protected]

[email protected]

[email protected]