Urban design in suburban settings

[Weallneedhistory]

As far as Johnny Carino's and IHOP at Celebration Village, they wanted all the outlots around Celebration Village to face the village, not the Beltline. That would have been tough to pull off and make it look attractive. I actually think the Sprint/Subway/Starbucks grouping doesn't look too bad.

[torgo]

those ridiculous, tall, waving, blowing-in-the-air stick figure people thingys.

[tamias6]

Because the master plan as presented to the City and neighbors showed the buildings in the "village" setting facing in not out to the Beltline.

The neighbors felt it was a bait and switch.

[Allison Slater]

A wacky waving inflatable arm-flailing tube-man?

[Veloise]

...They view the back (the side facing the parking) as the front and they view the front (the side facing the street) as the back. This disparity kills the project and it is evident not only in retail, but in townhouses, duplexes and even single family homes (snout house example)....

[DwntwnGeo]

I'll start watching for a good example to shoot.

[tamias6]

After decades of making one side of a suburban buildings look pretty and the other three sides as ugly as possible that's all the average Joe architects that designs all these strip malls/ big boxes/ office and commercial parks knows how to do anymore. The days of making buildings look good from all angles is sadly a dying art I'm affraid.

Been thinking about this today, and then remembered that Riverbank has two front doors. Why can't developers make two sides look pretty? Perhaps arrange buildings in a U- or triangle shape, add an alley or privacy fencing to hide the mechanicals/load zone.

I'll start watching for a good example to shoot.

[civitas]

I was over in the Lansing area this past summer and stopped at a Star Bucks in a strip mall on the NW corner of Okemos Road and Jolly Road. I know the Star Bucks, and I believe all the other Suites in the strip all had both front and back entrances/exits. The building looked pretty nice for a strip mall, but it still had asphalt parking in both locations. I didn't have my camera though

[GRDadof3]

Here's a good example of a great urban design in an area that has taken on suburban characteristics (Fuller and Leonard). In this week's city commission agenda packet. They pushed the proposed new development out to Fuller with pedestrian oriented entrances, and left the parking in back.

[the03avenger]

Is this project gonna be opposite side of family fare by the citgo?

[GRDadof3]

Is this project gonna be opposite side of family fare by the citgo?

[wolverine]

Am I the only one laughing at this thread? None of the examples qualify as urban design. It isn't even new urbanism, except for the one GRDad just posted. Almost everything here is suburban design with reduced parking. 1950-1960's suburbs have retail structures more dense than this. If this is the new perspective for urban design, I'm horrified.

[GRDadof3]

Am I the only one laughing at this thread? None of the examples qualify as urban design. It isn't even new urbanism, except for the one GRDad just posted. But tt's suburban design with reduced parking. 1950-1960's suburbs have retail structures more dense than this. If this is the new perspective for urban design, I'm horrified.

[wolverine]

LOL okay, When I refreshed the BAD appeared in the title. I thought it was because I haven't slept in 3 days .

[Mark Miller]

The "lifestyle center" hardly constitutes urbanism, even the Village of Rochester Hills seems nothing more than a reconfigured mall, an isolated shopping pod that is overstylized and sanitized with acres of parking lots and zero connection to the surrounding fabric. Although the surrounding fabric is hardly worth connecting to.

The illusion that these "lifestyle centers" create is that of mainstreet, but the truth is, that they are anything but main street. They are private, and therefore public activities are just as restricted as they would be in the concourse of a mall. On a real street you can have anti-war demonstrations or pro-life assemblies. You can have parades. Try doing that in a lifestyle center.

The example in Lansing is not even a lifestyle center. Many years ago I worked with the developers on this project, including the movie theater. There is not even an attempt to make a fake street on this one, no attempt to make fake public places and no attempt to do anything other than suburban monocultures that are totally dependent on a single mode of access. This is nothing more than a slightly dressed up power center.

The project on Fuller, while certainly a huge improvement over the other things going on at this intersection, seems to be missing a second story, which would be a huge improvement. Also it would be great if they could get some on-street parking so that the front doors are actually used, although that is most likely impossible due to the nature of this street. At least this project understands the difference between the front and back of the building.

[michaelskis]

In some cases lifestyle centers can be phenomenal urban design (when thought of on a scale closer to Greenville instead of Grand Rapids). I have seen disgns in some parts of the south that look like typical small town America with a park in front of a neoclassical town hall looking building (Which is actually the sales offices and such). One of the best parts of that design was there was zero surface parking lots. The only exposed parking was done as on street and all the other parking was in buildings. The outer walls of the buildings were used for office, residential, or retail space and the interior cores are parking ramps.

My biggest concern with these lifestyle centers is why isn

[GRDadof3]

My biggest concern with these lifestyle centers is why isn

[twoshort]

Am I the only one laughing at this thread? None of the examples qualify as urban design.

[GRDadof3]

The retail portion of 920 Cherry is a good example of a building being designed with the correct "front". It's too bad they couldn't add residential above this project. I think it would do a lot better than on Fuller.

Same with the Center of the Universe project. Seems like a missed opportunity, but I don't want to send Mike's topic off into yet another direction.

[Nitro]

The retail portion of 920 Cherry is a good example of a building being designed with the correct "front". It's too bad they couldn't add residential above this project. I think it would do a lot better than on Fuller.

Same with the Center of the Universe project. Seems like a missed opportunity, but I don't want to send Mike's topic off into yet another direction.

[michaelskis]

You could say that was done in East Grand Rapids with Gaslight Village. Downtown Rockford has invested a lot of money into its downtown over the past five years, as well as downtown Grandville. Are there others you were thinking of?

[Mark Miller]

My biggest concern with these lifestyle centers is why isn

[AlexPKeaton]

Downtown probably isn't a very profitable location for retail yet. People live in the suburbs so that's where the stores go. People will go downtown if there's something worthwhile there, but it's generally considered a bit of a hassle. With all the new condos coming online it'll be a matter of time before downtown sees some retail spring up as it will be a under-served market. Having more retail and a more lively downtown may spur further residential growth.

-nb

[TheCityGuy]

I think that people need to accept the fact that traditional "retail" is no longer viable in larger downtown areas (obviously cities like Chicago are an exception).

IMO, downtown Grand Rapids will never be a retail destination. But this isn't neccesarily a bad thing as people will still go downtown for food, drink, entertainment, and specialty retail. Of course, as residential density near and in downtown grows, things like small grocery stores, pharmacies, and personal service establishments begin to make sense.

I think people should accept the fact that people would rather shop at Rivertown than go downtown and shop.

[AlexPKeaton]

People would rather shop where it's convenient, and yes, that is typically a mall. Chicago is only an exception because lots of people live downtown, so it's actually more convenient to walk outside than it is to drive anywhere else. If we can get that critical mass living downtown there's no reason downtown can't be a real shopping center again.

-nb