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GRDadof3

MidTowne Village Development Updates

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Welcome to the credit-crisis... right?

I agree, it's depressing to see stuff like that get shelved.

You never know if they're just blaming it on the banks though.... maybe the resistance to giving out credit gave them a convenient exit from a project they just wanted to drop anyway.

Suydam...one thing you need to know about our company is that we do not spout "develoepr BS" we try to only announce projects that we are going to build (or are prepared to complete). So, while you are correct that the banking crisis could give us a convenient exit if we wanted it, that is just not the case or our company history.

There is no reason for us to hold this off if the equity and banks were there. Carrying the project as raw dirt is not free and does not get us closer to completion. The developer's biggest enemy is time.

That said, maybe I painted too dire a picture to Chris Knape. The project is not dead but we are in a delay mode. The issue is that the costs were too high and the revenue projections were to low meet the investment hurdles of the outside partner and their bank. So, we looked to find a way to bridge the gap. We asked the MEDC to give us the same consideration they gave to Joe Moch's hotel and much less than they have approved for the Buekema's offering on North Monroe. They said no. So we can expect that we will not be able to do this with public help.

We are back to the drawing board to try and figure out a way to get it done in the current environment.

On another note, I stand by the comments I made with regard to a large number of projects that would be successful but for the lack of banks willing to lend in this market.

DJL

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Suydam...one thing you need to know about our company is that we do not spout "develoepr BS" we try to only announce projects that we are going to build (or are prepared to complete). So, while you are correct that the banking crisis could give us a convenient exit if we wanted it, that is just not the case or our company history.

There is no reason for us to hold this off if the equity and banks were there. Carrying the project as raw dirt is not free and does not get us closer to completion. The developer's biggest enemy is time.

That said, maybe I painted too dire a picture to Chris Knape. The project is not dead but we are in a delay mode. The issue is that the costs were too high and the revenue projections were to low meet the investment hurdles of the outside partner and their bank. So, we looked to find a way to bridge the gap. We asked the MEDC to give us the same consideration they gave to Joe Moch's hotel and much less than they have approved for the Buekema's offering on North Monroe. They said no. So we can expect that we will not be able to do this with public help.

We are back to the drawing board to try and figure out a way to get it done in the current environment.

On another note, I stand by the comments I made with regard to a large number of projects that would be successful but for the lack of banks willing to lend in this market.

DJL

Looks like the concept is now being marketed as office space.

http://www.carwm.com/propertySearch.php

(mls# 736449)

Glad to see that it still has a chance.

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Mixed feelings on this one.  On the one hand I'm glad that this project has been revived, on the other not sure I approve of tax breaks for parking ramps.

 

This kind of tax break, which the brownfield program was recently amended to include, was likely meant to help offset costs for CBD projects because of land premiums in the downtown. Unfortunately they can't be applied in the core downtown where it could make a difference. 

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More great news...but whats with the parking haters? Its a hotel, of course they need parking and it will be built on top of an existing surface lot.....great infill so naturally they will need to build a ramp. A hyatt place would be nice like the original design but it would also be nice to see a new brand in town like alof as someone mentioned, weston, raidisson return to GR, 4 points, 4 seasons, sheriton, hawthorn, cambria, ect. 

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One thing about parking. The lot they'd build on is currently a surface lot. This development is not surrounded by a sea of parking. It needs some parking to offset what is lost do to construction. 

 

Joe

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This kind of tax break, which the brownfield program was recently amended to include, was likely meant to help offset costs for CBD projects because of land premiums in the downtown. Unfortunately they can't be applied in the core downtown where it could make a difference. 

 

I think the tax break is a good idea, in that it provides a disincentive to knock down existing buildings solely for surface parking.

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First, I am excited about this project.

 

Now my policy critique: 

 

The tax break is rather odd. Since 2010, the state has pulled back from urban development tax credits (historic, brownfield, etc.). Now we have new tax credits for parking? This first appears to be helpful to supporting urban development, but it is a rather perverse incentive.

 

Instead of supporting the construction and renovation of buildings that 1) generates income via property/sales/income taxes, 2) activates and enlivens our cities, and 3) facilitates greater number of employees, they instead have decided to incentivize parking! While parking certainly has its roll in redeveloping our cities, I question the public policy wisdom of implicitly endorsing one mode of transportation as part of the redevelopment program. 

 

I would much rather have them refocus on programs that support rent generating buildings and leave the parking to market forces. For example, in the MidTowne Village project, I would have rather them receive incentives for their hotel building, and not their parking garage.  

 

Thoughts?

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First, I am excited about this project.

 

Now my policy critique: 

 

The tax break is rather odd. Since 2010, the state has pulled back from urban development tax credits (historic, brownfield, etc.). Now we have new tax credits for parking? This first appears to be helpful to supporting urban development, but it is a rather perverse incentive.

 

Instead of supporting the construction and renovation of buildings that 1) generates income via property/sales/income taxes, 2) activates and enlivens our cities, and 3) facilitates greater number of employees, they instead have decided to incentivize parking! While parking certainly has its roll in redeveloping our cities, I question the public policy wisdom of implicitly endorsing one mode of transportation as part of the redevelopment program. 

 

I would much rather have them refocus on programs that support rent generating buildings and leave the parking to market forces. For example, in the MidTowne Village project, I would have rather them receive incentives for their hotel building, and not their parking garage.  

 

Thoughts?

If I'm not mistaken, amendments to the brownfield program is what supports this.

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First, I am excited about this project.

 

Now my policy critique: 

 

The tax break is rather odd. Since 2010, the state has pulled back from urban development tax credits (historic, brownfield, etc.). Now we have new tax credits for parking? This first appears to be helpful to supporting urban development, but it is a rather perverse incentive.

 

Instead of supporting the construction and renovation of buildings that 1) generates income via property/sales/income taxes, 2) activates and enlivens our cities, and 3) facilitates greater number of employees, they instead have decided to incentivize parking! While parking certainly has its roll in redeveloping our cities, I question the public policy wisdom of implicitly endorsing one mode of transportation as part of the redevelopment program. 

 

I would much rather have them refocus on programs that support rent generating buildings and leave the parking to market forces. For example, in the MidTowne Village project, I would have rather them receive incentives for their hotel building, and not their parking garage.  

 

Thoughts?

 

You could say that in some ways it sends the "message" that the State supports and will subsidize parking. However, if it allows a project to happen on an urban site that might not otherwise happen, does it matter? Particularly if it helps build up (or underground) instead of out?  I don't really think a business is going to add more parking than they need just because they can get a tax credit.

 

Now if they were given a huge tax incentive to do something, or even basically free money (like the film credits), then I'd be worried. We'd have Ellis lining up to buy all kinds of land downtown.

 

I have not seen the wording of this specific tax credit and what is required. Will have to look it up.

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I can understand the dissatisfaction.  If there's one thing hotels do not need, it is parking.  I mean, just look at the strength of the pro-forma for the redevelopment of Olds Manor with its lack of parking.

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If I'm not mistaken, amendments to the brownfield program is what supports this.

 

That's what I thought too.  There are no "new" credits, Brownfield or otherwise.  This was just an expansion in how they will honor the existing Brownfield credits.  So it's not going to be hugely consequential regardless.  Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.  Also, this only applies to parking structures, not surface lots.

 

 

First, I am excited about this project.

 

Now my policy critique: 

 

The tax break is rather odd. Since 2010, the state has pulled back from urban development tax credits (historic, brownfield, etc.). Now we have new tax credits for parking? This first appears to be helpful to supporting urban development, but it is a rather perverse incentive.

 

Instead of supporting the construction and renovation of buildings that 1) generates income via property/sales/income taxes, 2) activates and enlivens our cities, and 3) facilitates greater number of employees, they instead have decided to incentivize parking! While parking certainly has its roll in redeveloping our cities, I question the public policy wisdom of implicitly endorsing one mode of transportation as part of the redevelopment program. 

 

I would much rather have them refocus on programs that support rent generating buildings and leave the parking to market forces. For example, in the MidTowne Village project, I would have rather them receive incentives for their hotel building, and not their parking garage.  

 

Thoughts?

 

Here's how I see the benefit... The problem with "market forces" for parking is that:  Suppose someone knows his/her facility needs more parking.  If it's a particularly blighted neighborhood, the market incentive is for that person to acquire a nearby property and pave it over.**  A tax credit at least gives an incentive to build a new structure on his/her lot that would avoid this, and keep a semblance of density in neighborhood.  It's not perfect, but it's something.

 

 

**This may not be case in a high-growth area like the Medical Mile, but it definitely is in other parts of GR, and in other cities in Michigan.

Edited by RegalTDP

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does anyone know what the hotel brand is? hopefully something new to the area and not just another comfort inn....also who in the world would think a hotel does NOT need parking, especially in that area where you might get a lot of people staying there in relation to the hospital or MSU? people are going to drive from around the state and need to park somewhere, not to mention 50-70 new employees, some of which might drive to work. Im glad they are incorporating underground parking as well as a ramp and not using a large surface lot. 

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Third Coast Development if promoting a "name that hotel chain" contest on their Facebook page for the planned hotel in Mid Towne Village. Looks like some announcement is imminent. Any guesses?

 

Joe

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I threw my two cents in... I'm assuming if you have a brand that's a strong indication this project is a go?

 

Last I heard, they have the bids out and hoping to break ground in April.

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It's a Hampton Inn - via WOOD-TV

 

The Hampton Inn & Suites will be five stories tall and have 142 rooms. A ground-breaking ceremony is scheduled for April.

The hotel will be located in the Mid Towne Village on Dudley Place just north of Michigan Street NE and east of College Avenue, near the Women’s Health Center, according to a news release.

 

EDIT - Mlive just added their story as well:

 

Construction on a new 142-room 5-story Hampton Inn & Suites hotel will begin this spring in the Mid Towne Village development near Michigan Street and College Avenue NE, its developers announced Monday, March 10.

 

Edited by trongrr

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It's a go, and I think there's even construction equipment on site already. Not a bad brand, and having suites downtown is a great addition.

 

2 floors of parking, 5 floors of hotel. Again, it would be great to see that parking screened a bit more... #sandwicharchitecture

 

I foresee a boost in business for the Omelette Shoppe, El Barrio and Urban Mill.

 

I'll be interested to hear what x99 thinks of the design. :)

 

 

 

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