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1/5 of Grand Rapids Metro residents live in "exurbs"


GRDadof3

Exurbs a good thing or bad thing?  

59 members have voted

  1. 1. Is the fact that 1/5 of Grand Rapids MSA residents live in "exurbs" a good thing or a bad thing?

    • Good thing - people should live where they want to live
      11
    • Bad thing - "sprawl" is a real issue and a problem
      38
    • Good or bad for other reasons
      6
    • Brookings' study is inaccurate - (describe why)
      4
    • Other
      0


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I'm not sure what the purpose, benefit and even usefulness of this study is. Mostly, they limit their definition of exurbs to ones where the population is growing at a faster rate than the metro area. They have one page talking about slow or no growth exurbs, and then make the following amazing conclusion:

So basically they're saying "We decided to ignore a huge chunk of exurbia, because...". Because they didn't have enough time? Because they want to provide a bullet point that exurbs are the fastest growing communities by only including those that are growing faster than average? Is it amazing that in an area where the population is growing, that those rural areas starting with a lower population grow at a faster percentage? Does the fact that the northern part of the US has exurbs that are growing slowly or losing population mean anything?

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I voted that the study is bulls#@$

An exurb is a Brighton or a Howell. A community that is growing as people move further and further out of the core. Cities like Belding and Ionia are considered Grand Rapids exurbs, which is rediculous, as alot of these "exurban" communities are as old as Grand Rapids itself and experience little or no growth due to people leaving the "core". In Fact until a couple of years ago these communities weren't even considered part of the metropolitan area until the census board reorganized the definition of the MSA's. I could see the arguement made for places like Middleville and Coopersville, because they are experiencing developement directly due to Metro GrandRapidians moving further way. But to say that Ionia is an exurb is frivolous, and bureaucratic.

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The study was an effort to "find exurbia" as the definition is commonly used more and more and equated with sprawl. Brookings used three criteria of exurbia:

1. Economic connection to a large metropolis, essentially with 20%+ of its residents working in the larger metro of at least 500,000 people

2. Low density housing, around one home per 2.6 acres

3. Population growth, that exceeded the average of its related metropolitan area

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The study was an effort to "find exurbia" as the definition is commonly used more and more and equated with sprawl. Brookings used three criteria of exurbia:

1. Economic connection to a large metropolis, essentially with 20%+ of its residents working in the larger metro of at least 500,000 people

2. Low density housing, around one home per 2.6 acres

3. Population growth, that exceeded the average of its related metropolitan area

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Well then, none of the lakeshore communities qualifies as an "exburb" -- nor do any of the cities such as Hudsonville, Coopersville, etc. All have much higher densities and very little growth.

This definition describes Georgetown, rural Rockford, Caledonia, Byron Center, etc.

What then is the difference between an exburb and a suburb?. I dont get it. Probably just another egghead with a taxpayer funded study. <_<

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Last week I took a bus ride from the city to the suburbs. I walked from my house to a bus stop and then from the final bus stop to an office in a suburban office park. The difference between the two environments is what it is all about.

The walk in the city was through a neighborhood. It was a pleasant pedestrian scaled place that had comfortable distances between places and a relatively well-defined public realm.

The walk in the suburbs exhibited much of what is wrong out there. While there was a sidewalk (an extra-wide one), the spaces between the buildings were not manageable from a pedestrian scale. And the buildings were so far from the streets that they provided no definition of the public realm. The public realm out there was only for the car. The entire scale of this area was so far out of whack that I might has well been on another planet.

The exurbs only take this to another level. Not only are they further away, but the spacing of the buildings and the placement of the buildings is sometimes even more extreme. Not to mention that they are in many cases even more segregated - mostly residential pods.

The exurbs, and to some extent the suburbs, offer only one solution to transportation (the private auto) and force the use of the private auto. These places do a wonderful job of chewing up viable farmland that will be needed for food production in the future, while exasperating our dependence on foreign oil.

These places have been enabled by zoning ordinances, subsidized infrastructure (including the boondoggle known as M-6), and government policies.

The exurbs, as they are currently being built, are not sustainable.

There are alternatives. While reinvesting in the existing cities and towns, we can also build new towns and hamlets in compact, walkable, mixed use places based on the neigborhood module. By building in this traditional pattern, we can accomodate people of all different persuasions. The only way to accomplish that is to scrap current zoning ordinances, invest in rail (and other public transit) and have a coherent regional growth plan that is followed by ALL the multiple mini-municipalities that exist (it may require that township governments be scrapped or consolidated).

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Well then, none of the lakeshore communities qualifies as an "exburb" -- nor do any of the cities such as Hudsonville, Coopersville, etc. All have much higher densities and very little growth.

This definition describes Georgetown, rural Rockford, Caledonia, Byron Center, etc.

What then is the difference between an exburb and a suburb?. I dont get it. Probably just another egghead with a taxpayer funded study. <_<

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The question is then, is the overdevelopment of these small towns and the townships that surround them like Byron Center, Ada, Coopersville, Lowell, Hudsonville, Rockford, Cedar Springs, Dorr, Allendale, etc. a good thing or a bad thing? They're saying it's now about 100,000 people who live in these areas. And about 70,000 people live further out in surrounding counties (Allegan, Newaygo, Barry) and commute into Grand Rapids.

The "land area" of the Grand Rapids Metro is growing three times faster than the population is growing. Is that good or bad? Think about the economics of stretching infrastructure (roads, sewer, water) further out while simultaneously serving a less dense populace. It doesn't make sense how it can last forever (and get even less dense and further out as the trend accelerates).

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The exurbs, and to some extent the suburbs, offer only one solution to transportation (the private auto) and force the use of the private auto. These places do a wonderful job of chewing up viable farmland that will be needed for food production in the future, while exasperating our dependence on foreign oil.

These places have been enabled by zoning ordinances, subsidized infrastructure (including the boondoggle known as M-6), and government policies.

The exurbs, as they are currently being built, are not sustainable.

.

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Well according to the study, the exurban population in Allegan grew 6.6% from 2000 - 2005, while the entire Allegan county population grew 7.1%. Barry exurban 5.2% vs. entire 5.5%. Newaygo 4.2% exurban vs. entire 4.5%. So I don't see what's so special about the growth of the exurban population compared to the rest of the population. And those three counties grew at a faster rate in the 90s than currently. So I once again scratch my head at what this all means.
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The pattern of development in this country is flawed. The population continues to move away from cities to suburbs and from suburbs to exurbs. As it becomes more spread out, we require more vehicles and more vehicle miles traveled and we over-use two very precious resources, land to grow food and a finite supply of oil.
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Well according to the study, the exurban population in Allegan grew 6.6% from 2000 - 2005, while the entire Allegan county population grew 7.1%. Barry exurban 5.2% vs. entire 5.5%. Newaygo 4.2% exurban vs. entire 4.5%. So I don't see what's so special about the growth of the exurban population compared to the rest of the population. And those three counties grew at a faster rate in the 90s than currently. So I once again scratch my head at what this all means.
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Unfortunately, there has to be an atitude adjustment in America from the current mind set of shop 'til you drop in Big Boxes and strip malls and stuffing our pieholes full of fast food garbage and driving our fat lazy butts every where we go in our SUV's to a mindset that is more European in nature. But unless World War 3 happens and every oil well known to mankind is blown to bits, we American are going to continue to get fatter, drive bigger SUV's, buy bigger McMansions farther out from the city, and stuff them to the rafters with cheap disposable crap that the almighty TV says we need.

Last week I took a bus ride from the city to the suburbs. I walked from my house to a bus stop and then from the final bus stop to an office in a suburban office park. The difference between the two environments is what it is all about.

The walk in the city was through a neighborhood. It was a pleasant pedestrian scaled place that had comfortable distances between places and a relatively well-defined public realm.

The walk in the suburbs exhibited much of what is wrong out there. While there was a sidewalk (an extra-wide one), the spaces between the buildings were not manageable from a pedestrian scale. And the buildings were so far from the streets that they provided no definition of the public realm. The public realm out there was only for the car. The entire scale of this area was so far out of whack that I might has well been on another planet.

The exurbs only take this to another level. Not only are they further away, but the spacing of the buildings and the placement of the buildings is sometimes even more extreme. Not to mention that they are in many cases even more segregated - mostly residential pods.

The exurbs, and to some extent the suburbs, offer only one solution to transportation (the private auto) and force the use of the private auto. These places do a wonderful job of chewing up viable farmland that will be needed for food production in the future, while exasperating our dependence on foreign oil.

These places have been enabled by zoning ordinances, subsidized infrastructure (including the boondoggle known as M-6), and government policies.

The exurbs, as they are currently being built, are not sustainable.

There are alternatives. While reinvesting in the existing cities and towns, we can also build new towns and hamlets in compact, walkable, mixed use places based on the neigborhood module. By building in this traditional pattern, we can accomodate people of all different persuasions. The only way to accomplish that is to scrap current zoning ordinances, invest in rail (and other public transit) and have a coherent regional growth plan that is followed by ALL the multiple mini-municipalities that exist (it may require that township governments be scrapped or consolidated).

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Personally, I do not subscribe to your doom and gloom with regards to food or oil. I'd like to hear a timeframe from you. Are you talking a couple of decades before we're in real trouble or toward the end of the century? If oil starts to dry up, what will happen? The price of oil, and therefore fuel will increase rapidly. If this happens, then this country and its people will adapt and seek alternatives to personal transport. Or will science find solutions to reduce dependency on oil and domestic food production?
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Never meant to suggest LCWM failed in any way. It works miracles. The failure is a collective one, as we live in a society where it's all about creating wealth by destroying the natural environment.

Case in point: There's a current listing on the grar.com for 90-acres in Plainfield Township fronting the Grand River, Bear Creek and Waddell Creek.

The asking price is 1.9 million. As the real estate agent's Listing Comment says, and I quote: "Value is in the land with potential of development and sand/gravel mining or just great country living."

Hope its value remains to be in the latter, not the former. Once it's lost to a housing development or god forbid, sand and gravel mining , it's lost forever.

Good luck with this one, filmmaker.

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After finally doing some research I found that I did mean what I was trying to say. The Census' 2002 Urbanized Area population for Grand Rapids was 539,080. Urbanized Area is a measure of a cities' physical build (whereas a Metro Area population measures reach and influence). This usually includes the city, immediate suburbs, and maybe some second ring suburbs. I'm not sure where they are getting this 700,000+ number from. Is this the old MSA population? Are we talking MSA or Urbanized Area?
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