SkyHouse Charlotte, Publix and 10Tryon Tower in 4th Ward

[Rufus]

I guess I'm just concerned that Novare has too much on their plates at the moment. There are Skyhouse proposals in at least 2 other cities, including Charlotte, as well as finishing up their two under construction buildings. Nothing has happened with Raleigh's proposal, even though it was announced and approved last year.

[Guest]

I've actually been worrying that the Boom in the market market is starting to cool off a little. I'm not that worried about this proposal however.

[15895]

I've actually been worrying that the Boom in the market market is starting to cool off a little. I'm not that worried about this proposal however.

As long as we get a transformative project at Stonewall, I'm sure we'll all accept a cooled off market rather well

[kermit]

I've actually been worrying that the Boom in the market market is starting to cool off a little. I'm not that worried about this proposal however.

 

The WSJ has an article today on fears of multifamily overbuilding in DC (it may be behind a paywall). While its not Charlotte, the market dynamics are not dissimilar.

 

FWIW, YMMV.

[carolinagarnet]

The WSJ has an article today on fears of multifamily overbuilding in DC (it may be behind a paywall). While its not Charlotte, the market dynamics are not dissimilar.

 

FWIW, YMMV.

 

Sorry to get off topic here for a minute, but I think DC will absorb the apartments well. While rent is unbelievably expensive here, it does not even come close to most mortgage payments. Add to that the fact that the area is experiencing a huge net migration of young people, many of whom do not plan to stay for more than a few years (and are therefore unlikely to buy), and the height cap on development and I think you have a pretty hungry apartment market. The bigger risk is probably rent not escalating at the same rate as it has for the past decade.

 

As for Charlotte, it seems like demand for urban apartments is contingent upon stability from the banks and slower development in some of the other urban neighborhoods. I think prestige more than any other factor will drive people to live Uptown over say Southend (similar to DC vs. Arlington, VA).

 

EDIT: I just looked at the Orlando SkyHouse thread and as a native Orlandoan, that style of building is exactly what both cities need.

Edited March 18, 2013 by carolinagarnet

[Norm2]

Sorry to get off topic here for a minute, but I think DC will absorb the apartments well. While rent is unbelievably expensive here, it does not even come close to most mortgage payments. Add to that the fact that the area is experiencing a huge net migration of young people, many of whom do not plan to stay for more than a few years (and are therefore unlikely to buy), and the height cap on development and I think you have a pretty hungry apartment market. The bigger risk is probably rent not escalating at the same rate as it has for the past decade.

 

As for Charlotte, it seems like demand for urban apartments is contingent upon stability from the banks and slower development in some of the other urban neighborhoods. I think prestige more than any other factor will drive people to live Uptown over say Southend (similar to DC vs. Arlington, VA).

 

EDIT: I just looked at the Orlando SkyHouse thread and as a native Orlandoan, that style of building is exactly what both cities need.

DC will not absorb all of its new apartments with the current austerity measures that the federal government currently has in place.

[HopHead]

I would be more worried about this project (or others) if there were 6 or 8 of them in the pipeline for uptown. This building boom is much more mild compared to that of 2006 and I think developers are more cautious (i.e. no 50 story proposals--yet). We're not seeing a new tower proposed every week. Vacancy rates are anemic in and around uptown. Given that the bids were going out and that they seem to be aggressive in a start date, I think this one is full steam ahead... I don't think you can necessarily look at other markets that have had this proposal and draw a conclusion that it would not be built here. There could easily be other factors preventing projects in other cities from getting off the ground.

Edited March 19, 2013 by wend28

[Urbanity]

^I agree with your general assessment of this projects (and all others) currently proposed.  

 

What I do think is on the horizon for change though is the market for these expensive rentals.   Charlotte has a need so, again, I think the current slate of projects will fill that, but with housing starts up and rents increasing radically in the center city area - I think the market is about to swing back towards condos over rentals again.   Not necessarily condo market of 2006, but condos over rentals in general.

[southslider]

10,000 Americans turn 21 every day right now.  Charlotte, in particular, remains in the top 10 cities for growth among population aged 21-35.

 

Rents will ultimately depend on job market, but vacancies shouldn't be a concern, given the favorable demographics.

[Dale]

As an aside, I'm relocating to Charlotte, from Orlando, and have found rents to be SHOCKINGLY affordable, at least compared to what I'm used to seeing in Orlando.

[carolinagarnet]

^ I think the price difference has to due with Charlotte having more options on location. Since Orlando is really spread out and it got a later start on urban redevelopment, there is not as much inventory in downtown and downtown neighborhoods. There seems to be an attempt to gentrify areas like Parramore and South Orange Avenue, but until that happens the areas primed for development will be smaller pockets (i.e. Thornton Park, Baldwin Park). Charlotte does not seem to have the same socioeconomic extremes, so development has been more democratic.

[Dale]

Makes sense. And happy to be a beneficiary of the phenomenon.

[atlrvr]

I believe site-work is supposed to start this month.  They've applied for grading permits, and are really close to approval on building permits.

[Guest]

I believe site-work is supposed to start this month.  They've applied for grading permits, and are really close to approval on building permits.

Its great having so much activity on this site again after a 3-4 year lull. Keep up the Updates ATLRVR!!!

[Guest]

Bottom Floor, complete with tons of retail. 

Amenity Deck

Look at all that retail!!!! Amazing!

[ah59396]

While the exterior architecture won't turn any heads, I'm very happy with the bottom floor retail on this sucker.  Overall I think this is a nice win, and honestly the exterior is still tasteful.  Good looking out RDF.

[uptownliving]

I think this is a great project however am disappointed for connectivites sake that 10th St could not be lined up.

[dubone]

I don't have photoshop at the moment, but here is a rough context for the skyhouse 

 

 

In all seriousness, I really like the look and the street features of this building.   It is effectively 25 stories with the equipment floor at the top, and will really help remake this part of 4th Ward.  I cannot wait.

[atlrvr]

You know, it would be interesting if they made the parking deck strong enough to be expanded higher.  The Center City Inn (old Day's Inn) could be demolished for a Phase 2 identical tower to SkyHouse, and still have room for the office tower along Tryon (with maybe a low-midrise with retail at 9th and Tryon.

 

In other cities, Novare has done a 2nd SkyHouse with the same design but different trim/color scheme as a separate project, but I feel like 2 on the same block would work really well in this location.

[cltbwimob]

You know, it would be interesting if they made the parking deck strong enough to be expanded higher.  The Center City Inn (old Day's Inn) could be demolished for a Phase 2 identical tower to SkyHouse, and still have room for the office tower along Tryon (with maybe a low-midrise with retail at 9th and Tryon.

 

In other cities, Novare has done a 2nd SkyHouse with the same design but different trim/color scheme as a separate project, but I feel like 2 on the same block would work really well in this location.

That would be cool...Charlotte could use a set of twin towers

[Guest]

You know, it would be interesting if they made the parking deck strong enough to be expanded higher.  The Center City Inn (old Day's Inn) could be demolished for a Phase 2 identical tower to SkyHouse, and still have room for the office tower along Tryon (with maybe a low-midrise with retail at 9th and Tryon.

 

In other cities, Novare has done a 2nd SkyHouse with the same design but different trim/color scheme as a separate project, but I feel like 2 on the same block would work really well in this location.

Maybe at Elizabeth and Hawthorne...     

[dubone]

I wonder what keeps the owners of that [Days Inn (what is it even called now?)] so strongly positioned to forgo a buy out?  I am sure they missed an opportunity during the credit bubble to get a great price for their land, and now that there is adjacent development, it seems like a good time to capitalize on the momentum.  That business surely cannot make that much money that it would offset for a development opportunity.

 

I really like the idea of a twin tower like that, but then again, I like the idea of ANY redevelopment of that parcel.  As a 4th Ward resident, I pass this building constantly, and it just feels like as I go toward my city's main street and central business district, that I am actually heading into a bad neighborhood.    It is long overdue for rebuilding.  Even the motel that Trademark replaced was more attractive and redeemable than this one.

[tiblerbrit]

That would be perfect...I assume you are telling us something. That stretch of Elizabeth is ideal for more development, and I'm surprised that no apartment announcements have been made there yet.

 

Maybe at Elizabeth and Hawthorne...     

[Guest]

That would be perfect...I assume you are telling us something. That stretch of Elizabeth is ideal for more development, and I'm surprised that no apartment announcements have been made there yet.

   

 

Edit: I'll try to not be cryptic. 

 

I do have some insider info, but I don't know the credibility yet, so its speculation at this point (Me and 2 other posters have people looking into it). One thing that I'd like to point out though, is that Grubb and Novare have partnered on Skyhouse. Who owns most of the land on Elizabeth btw Charlottetowne and Hawthorne? That's right, same person. Grubb is motivated to get the wheels churning, and this district/project needs the dust brushed off of it.

Edited June 18, 2013 by Guest

[Guest]

Does everyone remember when this was slated to be a 52 story fractional ownership (timeshare) building?