SkyHouse Charlotte, Publix and 10Tryon Tower in 4th Ward

[RANYC]

55 minutes ago, MothBeast said:

The tent cities are completely legal and they have found housing for every single person in them that consented. The remaining tent goers number 30 or less and are refusing to leave and the property owner hasn’t asked them to.  Nothing the City can do about it.

I said nothing about the legality of the homeless encampments...I'm aware the city has created an "enforcement-free zone." 

Really, down to 30 or less?  Seems much more.

And I'm not for driving people out without real solutions.  But this very visible sign of economic hardship deserves a major share of the city's attention at this time.

A tax increase campaign for sleek, new mobility solutions might seem a tad bit tone-deaf to some.

Sure, vagrants on the street corner or on park benches are unfortunate and a problem, but a sprawling tent town right in the heartbeat of the region is a shame, and while CEOs from other places may be considering Charlotte for relocation, God spare them the North Tryon gateway into a Charlotte discovery.

2020 11 13 Amended Complaint | Nuisance | Damages (scribd.com)  according to this lawsuit, these issues have been going on for years.  

Edited December 19, 2020 by RANYC

[Urban Cowboy]

Tent City is a terrible first impression. And its location off of 277 ensures that many out-of-towners see it. Vi Lyles has done nothing. She should be ashamed. No leadership. 

Edited December 19, 2020 by Urban Cowboy

[Guest]

The tents are mostly full of stuff and not people. And trust me on this, the city has been talking to the land owners for months, they can’t do anything about this nigh removing the inhabitants by force. And yes, this is still an issue, but an image one. So if the CMPS went in and arrested 30 odd homeless people how well would that help the city’s image? It’s a lose/lose situation for Mayor Lyles.

[RANYC]

4 minutes ago, MothBeast said:

The tents are mostly full of stuff and not people. And trust me on this, the city has been talking to the land owners for months, they can’t do anything about this nigh removing the inhabitants by force. And yes, this is still an issue, but an image one. So if the CMPS went in and arrested 30 odd homeless people how well would that help the city’s image? It’s a lose/lose situation for Mayor Lyles.

I understand the city's forbearance, but I'd make it incredibly uncomfortable to be there.  Extremely bright light beams shining down 24/7, and camera surveillance.  Frankly, I've wanted camera surveillance at all our highway interchanges given the intensity of littering that takes place in such locations out of vehicle windows.  No one wants to live under watchful eyes of recorded camera surveillance, but when you occupy public spaces, you've every right to be recorded.  We can't give haven to this sort of occupation...whenever, wherever, in whatever manner, and all with impunity.  I suppose this occupation will take over Queens Park, should that ever come to fruition.

[KJHburg]

Much of the encampment seems to be in my eyes to be on State owned property along the 277 right of way.  Why is the city not calling the state and saying we have a problem?  Would they let people camp along I-85 right away in Cabarrus county during race time?  absolutely not. 

If it is just belongings and stuff it needs to be removed and stored somewhere or moved to where they currently reside. 

To get this back to development the large number of homeless in the northern end of uptown has been a reason why this side of uptown has been slower to be developed.  As  I have said like a broken record, Houston reduced their people on the streets by 40-50% in the last few years lets see how they are doing it and adopt their best practices here.  Inaction and throwing hands up in the air  and say there is nothing we can do about, it is not an answer.   As I work with homeless in Concord some will never the streets but most will if given the opportunity we just need to point them in the direction.  

and there were homeless camping along the LYNX elevated line a few blocks away before Covid hit too and that land owner had them removed from the property and they popped up along 277. 

want to help give to the Roof Above

Roof Above: The merged Urban Ministry Center & Men’s Shelter of Charlotte

Edited December 19, 2020 by KJHburg

[videtur quam contuor]

This is an excellent group which I support ^^^

[JRCLT]

28k for Publix seems small. Is this full size? I thought minimum 40-45k is standard with some pushing 60k.

Not sure if this has been posted before since it’s just over a year old. It has to do with urban environment and the higher price tag for space. It’s explained there:

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2019/12/13/publix-confirms-deal-in-place-for-uptown-store.html

[Rickybobby]

On 12/18/2020 at 9:15 PM, MothBeast said:

The tent cities are completely legal and they have found housing for every single person in them that consented. The remaining tent goers number 30 or less and are refusing to leave and the property owner hasn’t asked them to.  Nothing the City can do about it.

30 is major understatement. I agree completely that its not as large as most believe but there is easily 100+ people living on the streets between N. Davidson and N. Graham along 12th.  I also believe there is an over abundance of "day to day need" assistance provided to them. I see tons of food waste, clothes waste, shelter waste all because many organizations target those symptoms of homelessness and not the root cause.

[TCLT]

30 is major understatement. I agree completely that its not as large as most believe but there is easily 100+ people living on the streets between N. Davidson and N. Graham along 12th.  I also believe there is an over abundance of "day to day need" assistance provided to them. I see tons of food waste, clothes waste, shelter waste all because many organizations target those symptoms of homelessness and not the root cause.

Agreed. I’d like to see a source on the 30 number because I’ve seen the claim a few times now but I can’t believe it is accurate. Maybe that’s the number remaining on the “main block” adjacent to the light rail tracks but certainly not for the whole encampment. There’s hundreds of tents between Davidson and graham on both sides of 277. And yeah there’s a startling amount of waste left around.

[Cadi40]

On 12/18/2020 at 4:22 PM, navigator319 said:

28k for Publix seems small. Is this full size? I thought minimum 40-45k is standard with some pushing 60k.

The typical size for a Publix ranges from 38K-60K, the urban format stores are always smaller and typically carry essential items and of course their beloved Subs.

[urbanlover568]

5 hours ago, Rickybobby said:

30 is major understatement. I agree completely that its not as large as most believe but there is easily 100+ people living on the streets between N. Davidson and N. Graham along 12th.  I also believe there is an over abundance of "day to day need" assistance provided to them. I see tons of food waste, clothes waste, shelter waste all because many organizations target those symptoms of homelessness and not the root cause.

Unfortunately, COVID has sped up wealth inequality and gentrification. Millions of families are on the brink of being homeless currently. Maybe when the great reset happens it will make things better.  I can't see things getting better with the amount of debt currently.  

[Urban Cowboy]

8 hours ago, Rickybobby said:

 I also believe there is an over abundance of "day to day need" assistance provided to them. I see tons of food waste, clothes waste, shelter waste all because many organizations target those symptoms of homelessness and not the root cause.

Agreed. I live in Optimist Park so I see the camps daily. People think they’re being helpful by dropping off items... but in the last few weeks it’s turned into an overabundance of items left/dropped off. Which has in turn caused an overabundance of trash piles and other items just lying around. I live in the neighborhood so I admittedly would prefer the camps not be there. It makes walking to uptown uncomfortable at times (heckling, etc)  and it’s an eyesore. I wish the folks dropping off their goodwill piles would imagine how they would feel about a camp in their neighborhood.

Police and ambulance activity is common in the area as well. It’s unfortunate and I want to state that I do empathize with those living in tent city. Truly. But that whole strip is such a mess now and reminiscent of camps I’ve seen in Oakland, SF, LA, Portland, and Seattle. They’re also camping along the greenway woods along Belmont Ave and then another camp on Davidson across from the rose garden. 
 

I’ve contacted the mayor’s office several times to encourage action...and was told homelessness is a county issue, not the city’s. Which I found insulting. The non-profits active in the homeless community are amazing but it’s time for the city to do more to help.

Levine’s parking deck would be the perfect solution for temporary housing to at least start getting this more organized. And would be a good step toward getting the folks who want help off the street. For those who are complacent with staying in the camps and not getting help - I’m in favor of the city disbanding those tents. The police are hiding behind CDC guidelines as the reason for not disbanding, but that’s a joke considering no one is masked down there and there’s a SINGLE portapotty. The city should prioritize offering the vaccine to these at-risk citizens and getting them the help they truly need. 

[orulz]

On 12/18/2020 at 6:45 PM, KJHburg said:

it is small for comparable suburban stores but I have been to urban Publixes in Miami, Orlando and Raleigh and they are about that size.  Not as big as my suburban Publix of course. 

Raleigh's Publix is 45ksf, but that's Raleigh's first and only full size downtown grocery store, and the second one overall. (Weaver Street Market is 12ksf.)

Whereas this proposed Publix is Charlotte's 2nd full size grocer (Whole Foods is 1st) and the third overall (HT is small, at 12ksf). So even with a smaller Publix, Charlotte is still going to be winning the downtown grocery war.

 

[CLT Development]

On 12/29/2020 at 12:56 PM, orulz said:

Raleigh's Publix is 45ksf, but that's Raleigh's first and only full size downtown grocery store, and the second one overall. (Weaver Street Market is 12ksf.)

Whereas this proposed Publix is Charlotte's 2nd full size grocer (Whole Foods is 1st) and the third overall (HT is small, at 12ksf). So even with a smaller Publix, Charlotte is still going to be winning the downtown grocery war.

 

I'd just like to note that Trader Joes in Midtown Charlotte is only .3 miles further away from Trade and Tryon than the Publix is from the center of downtown Raleigh.

[15895]

On 12/18/2020 at 6:52 PM, RANYC said:

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but “finally” announcing a ground-breaking in Q2 of next year still leaves plenty of time for yet another “stop.”  Also, I just can’t imagine pitching the office space in this project given the proximal tent cities and the vagrant food giveaway lines that used to be a block or two over (are they still there?).  I suppose if an existing tenant in the area wants space, this project may work for that.  I’m not all that sanguine on this getting underway anytime soon.  
 

Why aren’t the tent cities an absolute crisis and the 24/7 obsession of city reps and local media?  Is it that we accept that maybe tent cities are a sign that we’ve entered the ranks of huge American cities, with a requisite de-humanizing wealth gap?  Are we simply multi-tasking, i.e. asking for a sales tax hike and still finding time and capacity to tackle a conspicuous homeless encampment problem at the same time?  Maybe the extra tax is what will resolve the tent city crisis?

ive never seen a tent city like I have in Charlotte. It’s so crazy huge and like ones you see on TV with barrels of fire even. It’s shocking. 
 

I seen a smaller version in San Francisco on vacation.
 

I’ve lived in DC for 3 years and I can only think of 1 bridge that has a few (literally a few. Like 3 but a lot of stuff) and the one with like. 8 tents that were forced to move this year with orange signs saying the sidewalk must remain clear at all times and property is subject to immediate removal. 

https://wamu.org/story/20/01/07/d-c-says-homeless-encampments-will-be-permanently-cleared-from-under-one-noma-bridge/

If liberal DC can do that. I’m sure the Charlotte city leaders can at least try to do something about it. 

[KJHburg]

This tent city is terrible for Charlotte.  I saw on WSOC people were donating pallets to put their tents on and off the ground.  While that is a great gesture and God bless them for caring the solution is getting these people fellow citizens off the streets.   Our city government seems to not care at all.  I know the non profits and charitable organizations are doing what they can.  However we need a coalition to get behind this and some private money like this one in Houston   HOME (homelesshouston.org)

Look at Wilmington NC building tiny homes for homeless.  

Tiny home neighborhood for homeless Eden Village of Wilmington (starnewsonline.com)

their program is based on Springfield MO another smaller city that has reduced their homeless population.  And much bigger Houston has done the same thing gotten people off the streets. 

and Savannah has a whole tiny home village for homeless vets

Tiny House Project - Chatham Savannah Authority for the Homeless (homelessauthority.org)

why are smaller cities and even a much bigger city doing SO much better with this than Charlotte? 

We have millions of taxpayer dollars to help a billionaire build a soccer training facility at Eastland  among other things but this city can not find one vacant piece of county or city owned property to do this?  the freaking city owns the Eastland mall site.  Where are all the big money donors in this town?  Obviously not driving by this 277 tent camp which by the way is on state property.  I think I will start calling NC DOT and the Governors office every week since our own Mayor and council seems completely un-interested in doing anything about it!

This tent city infuriates me that people won't help get these people into some kind of shelter tiny home, apartments, shelters, hospitals etc.

THE SOLUTION IS A HAND UP not giving a dollar at a corner.  The political leadership in this city and county should be ashamed because I sure am.  

PS I do practice what I am preaching here helping the homeless in Concord and Cabarrus County. 

And how this all relates to development, that is why development is much slower on the north side of uptown up Tryon and College.  There has been a problem for years and now has manifested into a tent city worthy of a third world country.   You can build all the nicest buildings, arenas, stadiums in the world but if you have your fellow citizens living like this you have NOTHING! 

Here is the website on the Wilmington project

Eden Village – Wilmington | Tiny Homes for the Homeless

 

 

 

 

Edited December 31, 2020 by KJHburg

[Urban Cowboy]

10 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

ive never seen a tent city like I have in Charlotte. It’s so crazy huge and like ones you see on TV with barrels of fire even. It’s shocking. 
 

I seen a smaller version in San Francisco on vacation.
 

Next time you’re in SF, walk through the tenderloin. It will shock you and break your heart.
 

Our camp is big but it doesn’t compare to the camps, or “the homeless issue,” out west. Oakland and LA are the worst.

[KJHburg]

Not sure what this means but here is my response from NC DOT

Mr. J

We are aware of the encampment, and are coordinating with the City and CMPD to remedy the situation. If you would like updates on our progress, it may be easier and faster to email me at [email protected]. Thank you and have a Happy New Year,

Jeff Littlefield

 

 

[DMann]

I have seen much larger camps in both San Diego near the Zoo, as well as in the eastern edge of Vancouver.

[KJHburg]

Well those California cities are not our models in any way of course.  How can Houston a much larger city with  an economy not as good as ours, and much more diverse population reduce their homeless population by 54% since 2011 and our street population is increasing.?

Coalition Impact One Page (multiscreensite.com)

I will be writing letters to all the economic developer leaders, Center City Partners etc. to examine  how Houston is doing it and duplicate their process here.  But whatever we are doing it not working. 

In the meantime give to organizations like Roof Above: The merged Urban Ministry Center & Men’s Shelter of Charlotte   here in Charlotte to help. 

[go_vertical]

I briefly lived in Miami around 15+ years ago. I remember seeing an entire block where homeless were sleeping shoulder to shoulder (not even rooms for tents) the full length of that sidewalk on two sides. Heads against the building and pedestrians walking past their feet. That was just one downtown block. 

Yes, the tent cities are very saddening, but it could be soooo much worse. Charlotte isn't a mid-size city anymore. With as long as this city's explosive growth has been going on I'm surprised it isn't an even bigger problem. 

[turbocraig]

4 hours ago, Urban Cowboy said:

Next time you’re in SF, walk through the tenderloin. It will shock you and break your heart.
 

Our camp is big but it doesn’t compare to the camps, or “the homeless issue,” out west. Oakland and LA are the worst.

I remember a couple years ago taking BART over West Oakland (it’s an elevated track through there) and looking down and seeing blocks and blocks of tents and garbage and burned out cars.  It was shocking and massive.  I’d never seen anything like it before - or since.  It literally looked like a zombie apocalypse.   I think they may have cleaned it up this past summer.  

[urbanlover568]

It's really sad some are homeless. Throwing their stuff in the trash isn't going to solve the issue. You are demoralizing them more and making it worse.

Income inequality must be addressed and the war on drugs must end. Charlotte and San Francisco are expensive and most live paycheck to paycheck.  Homelessness dropped in Colorado after pot legalization.  Mental health also needs to be addressed, but that's not been popular with recent governments to fund. 

[CLT>___]

Whatever the fix is (a lot of different opinions on this) our city cannot allow all these tents to remain. I live in 4th ward and it is aggravating to see my area literally trashed by these people.  This tent city situation is going to disrupt development on the north side of uptown. Having people live in tents is not a solution and everyone bringing them supplies so that this can continue to go on is enabling and making the problem worse. 

To be clear I want these people to receive help but dropping off water and food for them so they have no incentive to seek help is not a good idea. 

[urbanlover568]

36 minutes ago, CLT>___ said:

Whatever the fix is (a lot of different opinions on this) our city cannot allow all these tents to remain. I live in 4th ward and it is aggravating to see my area literally trashed by these people.  This tent city situation is going to disrupt development on the north side of uptown. Having people live in tents is not a solution and everyone bringing them supplies so that this can continue to go on is enabling and making the problem worse. 

To be clear I want these people to receive help but dropping off water and food for them so they have no incentive to seek help is not a good idea. 

What would you rather give them? Should we get rid of the soup kitchen and salvation army also because the few who litter? Let them starve and go hungry? I know people who were homeless and were down on their luck and didn't trash areas with their food waste. They ate the food and drinks that were given to them and got off their feet and are no longer homeless. The moment we stop fighting for each other, that's the moment we lose our humanity.

Edited January 1, 2021 by urbanlover568