SkyHouse Charlotte, Publix and 10Tryon Tower in 4th Ward

[DMann]

I hate to sound like a grouch, but can we start a new thread for the Homeless situation?  It is a real and concerning problem that we as a community need to address but until tents start showing up on the Hotel/Condo Tower site it should have a thread of its own.

[KJHburg]

from the Armada Hoffler website and they are heavily marketing it now it seems

10 Tryon – Armada Hoffler

[15895]

On 12/31/2020 at 12:42 PM, go_vertical said:

I briefly lived in Miami around 15+ years ago. I remember seeing an entire block where homeless were sleeping shoulder to shoulder (not even rooms for tents) the full length of that sidewalk on two sides. Heads against the building and pedestrians walking past their feet. That was just one downtown block. 

Yes, the tent cities are very saddening, but it could be soooo much worse. Charlotte isn't a mid-size city anymore. With as long as this city's explosive growth has been going on I'm surprised it isn't an even bigger problem. 

I disagree. Charlotte is a mid-sized city. It would be a stretch to call it a large city. 
 

cities aren’t measured in tents. Not saying bigger cities don’t have larger homeless populations. Just saying I don’t think Charlotte being a “large” city had any truth behind the tent city 

[JacksonH]

5 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I disagree. Charlotte is a mid-sized city. It would be a stretch to call it a large city. 
 

cities aren’t measured in tents. Not saying bigger cities don’t have larger homeless populations. Just saying I don’t think Charlotte being a “large” city had any truth behind the tent city 

It's all relative.  Thirty-five or so years ago Dallas and Atlanta were the same size Charlotte is today.  Of course those cities have continued to grow, but back in those days when they were the size Charlotte is now nobody questioned whether they were large/major cities.  They were unquestionably large cities then, but much  larger now.  Whatever threshold Atlanta and Dallas crossed decades ago to be considered major cities Charlotte has now also crossed.  It's a major city, and along with that comes the challenges large cities all face.

Edited January 2, 2021 by JacksonH

[Norm2]

17 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I disagree. Charlotte is a mid-sized city. It would be a stretch to call it a large city. 
 

cities aren’t measured in tents. Not saying bigger cities don’t have larger homeless populations. Just saying I don’t think Charlotte being a “large” city had any truth behind the tent city 

Charlotte is in a transition of being a medium sized/regional powerhouse into a major/national city. IMO, it is somewhere between medium and major. I think it is important to note that cities like NYC and LA are not major cities, they are globally important cities, which Charlotte will never be on par with.

[TCLT]

1 hour ago, norm21499 said:

Charlotte is in a transition of being a medium sized/regional powerhouse into a major/national city. IMO, it is somewhere between medium and major. I think it is important to note that cities like NYC and LA are not major cities, they are globally important cities, which Charlotte will never be on par with.

To your point, one measure of cities by GaWC ranks Charlotte as a Gamma + city which is on par domestically with places like St. Louis, San Jose, Orlando, and Phoenix. Cities like Dallas, Houston, Miami, and Atlanta are head and shoulders above us.

[Urban Cowboy]

Interestingly back in the early-mid 90s Charlotte and Jacksonville were considered peer cities and compared frequently. But Charlotte has sped off while Jacksonville has remained feeling stagnant despite explosive growth in the suburbs. Biggest difference between the two cities is the vibrancy of uptown and investment in light rail and urban living. Whereas Jacksonville’s downtown is probably in worse shape than it was years ago.
 

The core matters, especially in subjective “feel” conversations. People’s perceptions matter and fuel investment and growth. Which is why these tents do matter. And to bring it back to Publix, why another urban grocer matters.

Edited January 2, 2021 by Urban Cowboy

[15895]

17 hours ago, JacksonH said:

It's all relative.  Thirty-five or so years ago Dallas and Atlanta were the same size Charlotte is today.  Of course those cities have continued to grow, but back in those days when they were the size Charlotte is now nobody questioned whether they were large/major cities.  They were unquestionably large cities then, but much  larger now.  Whatever threshold Atlanta and Dallas crossed decades ago to be considered major cities Charlotte has now also crossed.  It's a major city, and along with that comes the challenges large cities all face.

For me, mid-sized is Charlotte, Denver, Orlando, Tampa, Baltimore, Cinnci, Austin, etc.  Large being San Francisco, Chicago, Philadelphia, Atlanta, Dallas etc. It’s not scientific, just sorta my personal view. Mid-sized cities I view as major cities in any event anyway. 
 

I don’t think being a large city (or however you wanna categorize Charlotte) is really an excuse for lack of leadership in solutions for the homeless camps around 277.

Edited January 2, 2021 by AirNostrumMAD

[urbanlover568]

Charlotte is a large City 

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/edge/docs/LOCALE_CLASSIFICATIONS.pdf

[15895]

5 minutes ago, urbanlover568 said:

Charlotte is a large City 

https://nces.ed.gov/programs/edge/docs/LOCALE_CLASSIFICATIONS.pdf

Who cares? Call it what you want. That is such a minor point of what I’m even talking about. 
 

Call it the largest city in North America. I still feel the same about 277 (and Charlotte, looking out of catalyst from my fiancé’s window because he lives here) still looks the same. Nothing changed by calling it large, tiny, huge. I’m sure everyone here knows Charlotte.... 

in any event. There should be leadership on the homeless tent situation. I don’t buy “it is what it is”. Not at least without addressing the situation. 

Edited January 2, 2021 by AirNostrumMAD

[urbanlover568]

Obviously you do. I submitted documentation to dispel the fallacy that it's not a large city. 

Just now, AirNostrumMAD said:

Who cares? Call it what you want. That is such a minor point of what I’m even talking about. 

 

22 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

I disagree. Charlotte is a mid-sized city. It would be a stretch to call it a large city. 

 

[15895]

6 minutes ago, urbanlover568 said:

Obviously you do. I submitted documentation to dispel the fallacy that it's not a large city. 

 

 

But I do disagree that Charlotte is just such a large city, the tent population just is what it is and is just a result of being a large city. 

And What I meant by who cares, I meant who cares enough to lose their mind whether someone considers Charlotte to be a mid-sized city or a large city (what would that make San Francisco, for example? A giant city?) 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by AirNostrumMAD

[urbanlover568]

Just now, AirNostrumMAD said:

But I do disagree that Charlotte is such a large city, the tent population just is what it is and is just a result of being a large city. 

I agree with you there for sure. 

[TCLT]

3 hours ago, Urban Cowboy said:

But Charlotte has sped off while Jacksonville has remained feeling stagnant despite explosive growth in the suburbs.

IMO, the biggest differences are the massive hub at CLT and the finance industry. The hub gave us domestic and international connectivity far beyond our peer cities which has been instrumental in economic development. The finance industry has grown enormously, far outpacing basically any other sector, over the last several decades to where it is now making up almost 10% of America's entire GDP. One single 10 year old light rail line is negligible in comparison.

[RANYC]

On 1/1/2021 at 4:49 PM, KJHburg said:

from the Armada Hoffler website and they are heavily marketing it now it seems

10 Tryon – Armada Hoffler

At one point, wasn't it announced that BofA had commmitted to 55K of the available office space?

Just now, RANYC said:

At one point, wasn't it announced that BofA had commmitted to 55K of the available office space?

Won't lie, as terrible as the tent region is, it will be nice to see this patch of grass get filled in with this ground-floor retail.  Would love to see micro-retail attempted somewhere in Uptown, similar to what they're doing in South End.  

[videtur quam contuor]

18 hours ago, Urban Cowboy said:

Interestingly back in the early-mid 90s Charlotte and Jacksonville were considered peer cities and compared frequently. But Charlotte has sped off while Jacksonville has remained feeling stagnant despite explosive growth in the suburbs. Biggest difference between the two cities is the vibrancy of uptown and investment in light rail and urban living. Whereas Jacksonville’s downtown is probably in worse shape than it was years ago.
 

The core matters, especially in subjective “feel” conversations. People’s perceptions matter and fuel investment and growth. Which is why these tents do matter. And to bring it back to Publix, why another urban grocer matters.

Charlotte was awarded the NFL franchise in October, 1993. Not a surprise as Jerry Richardson had created a strong presentation and relationship over years for his team plan. The other expansion franchise was to be named at the same time but was delayed, apparently for other more well known cities to refine their bid. I remember walking into my local bar on a November afternoon that year and the patrons turned to me nearly as one and said "It's Jacksonville!" I said "WHAT is Jacksonville?" "The second franchise" was their reply. I could not believe it. As each successive patron entered the news was relayed and the look of surprise on each man's face must have been a mirror of that of mine. 

My response from that time remains true today.  Charlotte has continued to grow, develop and mature. (edit: and grow more wealthy). Jacksonville has trended sideways. (imo)

Edited January 3, 2021 by tarhoosier

[JacksonH]

19 hours ago, AirNostrumMAD said:

And What I meant by who cares, I meant who cares enough to lose their mind whether someone considers Charlotte to be a mid-sized city or a large city (what would that make San Francisco, for example? A giant city?) 

Yes

[TCLT]

I guess we're going to use the NASA spacesuit potty method of classifying city sizes.

[Norm2]

6 hours ago, TCLT said:

I guess we're going to use the NASA spacesuit potty method of classifying city sizes.

Wow, that was a fascinating read LOL

[Hushpuppy321]

On 1/3/2021 at 10:24 AM, tarhoosier said:

Charlotte was awarded the NFL franchise in October, 1993. Not a surprise as Jerry Richardson had created a strong presentation and relationship over years for his team plan. The other expansion franchise was to be named at the same time but was delayed, apparently for other more well known cities to refine their bid. I remember walking into my local bar on a November afternoon that year and the patrons turned to me nearly as one and said "It's Jacksonville!" I said "WHAT is Jacksonville?" "The second franchise" was their reply. I could not believe it. As each successive patron entered the news was relayed and the look of surprise on each man's face must have been a mirror of that of mine. 

My response from that time remains true today.  Charlotte has continued to grow, develop and mature. (edit: and grow more wealthy). Jacksonville has trended sideways. (imo)

Do you or anyone else remember what other cities Jacksonville competed with for the NFL Franchise they ultimately received and how they've grown?  Just curious as to why Jacksonville hasn't grown much even though its in a good location in a surging State.

On 1/3/2021 at 3:20 PM, TCLT said:

I guess we're going to use the NASA spacesuit potty method of classifying city sizes.

Yep - I just can't wait for Charlotte to go from 'Large' City (which it already is) to a 'Major' US City.  I feel it will achieve that once the Corporate Limits Population is above 1 Million.  (Maybe will in 2026-2027).

I think any US City over 1 Million in Population would be considered Major, including a Metro of at least 4 Million +.  My 2-Cents...

[videtur quam contuor]

Baltimore and St Louis. Both those cities received transfer teams, the Rams from Los Angeles and the Ravens (Browns) from Cleveland.

Edited January 5, 2021 by tarhoosier

[InTheYear2000]

28 minutes ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

Do you or anyone else remember what other cities Jacksonville competed with for the NFL Franchise they ultimately received and how they've grown?  Just curious as to why Jacksonville hasn't grown much even though its in a good location in a surging State.

As a former Jacksonville resident of 9 years, lots of things can be said to explain the difference in growth but I think the biggest one is what made Charlotte take off and Jacksonville to taper, Bank M&A. Barnett among others were a huge driving force behind the growth in the area. Barnett in particular was one of the largest and fastest growing banks in the south east prior to the  chain of acquisitions that lead to the our own driving force, Bank of America. Bank of America still has offices in Jacksonville but over the years they have become largely back office .   

Edited January 5, 2021 by InTheYear2000

[DMann]

Actually, the Rams were originally from Cleveland!

[turbocraig]

35 minutes ago, InTheYear2000 said:

As a former Jacksonville resident of 9 years, lots of things can be said to explain the difference in growth but I think the biggest one is what made Charlotte take off and Jacksonville to taper, Bank M&A. Barnett among others were a huge driving force behind the growth in the area. Barnett in particular was one of the largest and fastest growing banks in the south east prior to the  chain of acquisitions that lead to the our own driving force, Bank of America. Bank of America still has offices in Jacksonville but over the years they have become largely back office .   

I worked for NationsBank at that time.  I was on a transition team  that went down to the Barnett HQ to integrate a small dept into our CLT team.  99.9% of the (relatively new) tower was empty.  It was eerie.  This was shortly after NB also bought Boatmen’s Bancshares out of St. Louis, since that city was just also mentioned.  Sorry to run this topic off the shoulder.  But... our office here was in CityFair, which was demo’d to make way for Hearst and we were moved to 525 N. Tryon which was spanking new, where we had lovely views of the Day’s Inn and the occasional dead hooker being taken out in a body bag, and beside that was Renaissance Place - a seedy old motel converted to apartments, which is now the site of Skyhouse and this new development.  There.  Back on track now.

[ertley]

10 minutes ago, turbocraig said:

... our office here was in CityFair, which was demo’d to make way for Hearst and we were moved to 525 N. Tryon which was spanking new, where we had lovely views of the Day’s Inn and the occasional dead hooker being taken out in a body bag, and beside that was Renaissance Place - a seedy old motel converted to apartments, which is now the site of Skyhouse and this new development...

Um, shouldn't this be in the History of Charlotte thread?