2030 Transit Plan

[uptownliving]

So far Iredell County has contributed $101,500 for study of the North Line. The last time they approved any funding going towards the North Line was over 2 years ago. So far Iredell has refused to pay for their share of the Final EIS for the North Line which is $127,500.

Iredell County Meeting minutes from May 2005 show that CATS in fact has shown Iredell County how much the line would cost. Of course they are estimates. However the cost for the study is fixed, and that is all the Iredell is being asked to fund at this point, and yet they have refused.

If Iredell were truly supportive of the North rail project then the MTC would not have voted to terminate the line at Mt Mourne instead of Mooresville.

[atlrvr]

Well not to stray off topic too far, but Davidson won't likely look to annex more than a couple of adjacent properties north because it would require a lift station for water/sewer, and it's not worth the investment from the town's perspective.

I don't think the idea is too far fetched, as many town's in Iredell exist solely for the purpose of not being absorbed by surrounding towns, Hemby Bridge being the most recent example, with a very odd set of boundaries. That said, I would think the liklihood of it happening for the purpose of increasing taxes to support transit it unlikely, at least in the near term. However, the vast majority of the residential growth there is around the future station (Station 115, Legacy Village, etc.), and I would assume buyers are anticipating commuter rail will be built.

[monsoon]

Iredell County Meeting minutes from May 2005 show that CATS in fact has shown Iredell County how much the line would cost. Of course they are estimates. However the cost for the study is fixed, and that is all the Iredell is being asked to fund at this point, and yet they have refused.

[MZT]

I'm coming close to the point, of thinking the MTC should stop leaning on the reluctant bride (Iredell) and just focus money and political momentum where it can make headway.

Build the N line to Davidson, maintain the trains in uptown, and leave some plans in place to extend the NE line to NODA or 27th street to preserve McCrory's vote.

It may satisfy Matthews and Mint Hill for now, just to see CATS not comitting to the expense of the total NE line. Considering that the south line slipped from 2006 to late 2007, and how over budget it is, I don't see how the the NE line can be viewed other than as a "pig in the python". Attempt to built it in entirity first.... and everything else waits.

(The SE line is a pig too, but at least that debate has been put off for 5 more years.)

[monsoon]

Well not to stray off topic too far, but Davidson won't likely look to annex more than a couple of adjacent properties north because it would require a lift station for water/sewer, and it's not worth the investment from the town's perspective.

[monsoon]

The Huntersville Herald articles are online now. (Notice the map in the second article. )

To win big CATS may need to think small

Rail fight headed for final rounds

"....The current CATS

[Neo]

Hemby Bridge is located in Union county not Iredell. Its been there a long time. The NC Legislature is much less willing to let small places play these games these days and it is unlikely the Iredell county council would go along with this idea either.

You are correct that Hemby Bridge is in Union County and not Iredell but there is a fairly recent acquisition of a LOT of land (1998 I believe) where Unionville incorporated so that Monroe could not annex any further in that direction. This was for the sole purpose of preventing an annexation and the higher taxes of the city of Monroe.

[uptownliving]

It is sad that Iredell County refuses to pay for additional engineering studies on the North Line to get a better estimate on the cost of building the line. Right now the North Line is at 25% Design...so any cost estimates given out won't have 100% accuracy. I think it is stupid and short sighted for Iredell to demand a definate cost of the North Line and then in the same breath refuse to pay for the expensive engineering study needed to determine those costs.

[monsoon]

It is sad that Iredell County refuses to pay for additional engineering studies on the North Line to get a better estimate on the cost of building the line. Right now the North Line is at 25% Design...so any cost estimates given out won't have 100% accuracy. I think it is stupid and short sighted for Iredell to demand a definate cost of the North Line and then in the same breath refuse to pay for the expensive engineering study needed to determine those costs.

[atlrvr]

Oops....I meant to say Union.

[uptownliving]

Well its not going to get any cheaper for Iredell if they want to "hop on the train". With the MTC's decision earlier this year to terminate the line in Mt Mourne, the train, figuratively speaking, is leaving the station, and it looks like Iredell is going to wait this one out. By the time the next train comes the ticket price will have gone up.

The Iredell County Commision can certainly wait until they are 100% certain about everything, but by the time that happens, the price they will have to pay for the train will have gone up 100% as well.

[rjp212]

Lowes has already been annexed by Mooresville, prior to it even getting built. The new langtree project has also asked to be annexed by Mooresville.

[monsoon]

Ahh that's going to put to rest any plans that either Lowes or Langtree will be milked for enough property taxes to make up the short fall in the broken CATS plan for the North line.

[uptownliving]

Next week the Mecklenburg County Commision will vote to amend the Interlocal Transit Agreement. Basically they will add Meck Co Commision back in as an approver to CATS budget. Almost exactly a year ago the Meck Co Commision voted to take themselves out of the CATS budget approval process. However will all the bad things going on with the South Line this past year I suspect the Meck Co will approve these changes.

After Meck Co approves this, it will also have to be approved by Charlotte, and 75% of the towns in Meck before it goes into effect.

The amended Interlocal Agreement can be viewed here. Changes are in Red.

[MZT]

According to the Cornelius Mayor, Gary Knox the Northern towns have asked CATS to produce other scenarios which do not include the NE line being built first. (or possibly at all) They want these scenerios or alternatives as CATS calls them to be produced in time for the November 8th meeting.

[uptownliving]

They are having a special "workshop" meeting next week where they will go over the data from CATS in greater detail in preperation for the meeting on the 15th.

[monsoon]

So what happened to the meeting that was supposed to take place on the 15th. We had the one on the 8th which was the special workshop, then another on the 15 which was the public hearing and possible vote. The vote part could be put off till december.

[uptownliving]

Nothing has happened to the meeting on the 15th. It is still on the calendar. Nothing has changed as far as meeting schedules for the MTC. The special meeting on the 8th and the Public Hearing on the 15th.

[monsoon]

Ahh I misunderstood the above comments. I wonder what will happen if Puckett becomes the new head of the county council and replaces Helms on the MTC?.

[uptownliving]

More bad news for the North Line at today's MTC meeting. The $25M Federal money they originally thought they would be able to get now appears to be out of reach. The FTA only gives those exempt funds to projects that are in the final stages of Preliminary Engineering, which the North Line is about 18 months away from that stage. The problem is that the window for exemption funding ends at the begining of 2008. The North Line would not be able to meet that deadline according to Project Manager David Carol.

The NCDOT rep on the MTC feels that even if the North Line doesn't qualify for federal funding that NCDOT would still be willing to kick in a 25% share for the project.

Both Huntersville Mayor Phillips and Cornelious Mayor Knox were lobbying hard for the "new" Plan A-2 which has the North Line first and pushes out the Northeast line a few years (and the price up to $800M). However I don't think they gained much traction. Their neighbor to the north, Davidson Mayor Kincaid repeatedly said he was in favor of the original CATS Plan A, now called Plan A-1.

Syfert spoke up and said she was not sure if Charlotte could handle the debt load of building the North and the Northeast line at the same time, they are still waiting to hear back from City Finance if the plan is doable or not.

There was also talk about possibly making the North Line cheaper, by starting out with something more along the lines of Nashville's Music City Star, using used train cars to save money. I think that debate is something that is really going to have to occur later, when it comes time to pony up the money for the various lines.

So right now, it appears the most political support is behind CATS Plan A for the 2030 plan. This plan would put the North Line the next one in service pending funding.

The MTC will be meeting next week, Wednesday, November 15th at 5pm. This will be a public hearing on the 2030 plan. After the public hearing the MTC is scheduled to vote on approval of the plan. Just like last time the meeting will be televised and streamed on the internet.

[monsoon]

What is going to happen if the North line is not chosen next, is that by the next election, Huntersville and Cornelius will join Mooresville in withdrawing from the system. The last candidate for Mayor ran on the platform of paying for choo choos to Charlotte. The next ones will no doubt run on one of being taxed for trains they will never get.

I suspect that Davidson will follow suit. There are a lot of people in that town that are against the rail line.

[dubone]

I've always supported the North line because I want all the lines to be built. But if the low ridership and relatively high price cause it to not get any non-local funds, then I don't think it should get all of this political favor. If the northern towns want to quit CATS under those conditions, it might be cheaper to let them go. With only 4000 riders expected on the trains, express busses on the 77 HOV lanes might do fine until the towns can pay for the train themselves.

In general, I support plan A-1, although I preferred C. I can't for the life of me figure out what could possibly be so bad about the North line being next to start and next to finish, as A-1 has. Is it about punishing the NorthEast? It just reminds of a toddler who doesn't want any other kids in the moonbounce.

If they pull out, it will be a shame, but at least my taxes won't have to subsidize a project that is prioritized because of the structural makeup of a voting commitee rather than merit.

[monsoon]

I am not saying I support this, but it is what is likely to happen. If it does happen it also means the likely hood of the NCDOT funding the NE line to the tune of $250M is likely to drop to nill. I don't see them getting the statewide political support for this if there is not a united Mecklenburg behind this plan.

Will any of this make any difference, I don't think so. It is obvious the cards have been stacked to build the NE line next to the exclusion of everything else including the center city street car system. The bad thing about it is I don't think they will get the funding to build it.

[MZT]

Even though I live near the south line, and extending it to the NE could (maybe) be of benefit to me, I generally support seeing the North line built next. I think the MTC should show commitment to making this a regional system, not just a Charlotte one.

[dubone]

I love the streetcar concept, because I think it is important for supporting denser urbanization, but I think there are a lot of practical reasons to hold off on the streetcar and the others in favor of the NE line. Scenario A-1 basically prioritizes the N and NE line equally, then then half the streetcar, and then (when we've all retired elsewhere) the rest.

The NE line has tremendous support in the real world, from what I've seen. It wins UP polls, newspaper polls, and all that. But it also has tremendous projected ridership. Beyond that, it provides a valuable extension of the line already being built, and extends to the university and only a short distance from the Speedway.

I'm glad that the NE line is pursued right away, and that the N line is going simultaneously in Scenario A1. I'm disappointed that the streetcar would be delayed almost a decade, but I guess that's the breaks of being a smaller line with no rights of way to buy.