St. Paul's Quadrant (Phase 2-Under Construction)

[BFG]

As far as I know, that's the eventual goal, and if so, I'm okay with it. However, I'd like to see more of a "Downtown 2.0", so to speak, and not just a new suburb, which is what I fear Norfolk might lean towards. However, an extension of downtown that starts at the McDonald's/Popeye's side of Monticello and goes all the way to Tidewater would be great! Even if it's more like a Town Center, it would look awesome to see that become part of the Norfolk skyline.

[brikkman]

I know its expensive, but if they could begin with a complete re-establishment of the street grid in the area it would be a massive leap in the right direction. They would initially displace a few families and could figure out how to handle a complete relocation before an entire overhaul of the area takes place.

I say only worry about the people who have been there under 5 years and give the rest notice...

Time for Norfolk to step up and put on its big boy pants.

 

I am afraid too that it will become nothing but a suburb, Broadcreek like with a few shops...

[BFG]

I am afraid too that it will become nothing but a suburb, Broadcreek like with a few shops...

Exactly! I have no problem with mixed-use housing. Some apartments, some condos/townhouses, kinda similar to what's along St. Paul and in Freemason, selling anywhere between $150-300K, some more upscale than others. But to make it similar to Broad Creek is just plain boring...which means it's right down Norfolk's alley.

 

One of my favorite cities to visit is Atlanta, and right on the edge of downtown, off the interstate, is a mix of lofts and condos, with a few townhouses thrown in, as well as shops. I'd love to see SPQ turn into something like that. Here's one of the complexes I've seen there... 

 

Norfolk has so many game changing ideas that could put it on par with other cities, and yet they go for the safe cookie-cutter plan. So frustrating.

[mistermetaj]

Exactly! I have no problem with mixed-use housing. Some apartments, some condos/townhouses, kinda similar to what's along St. Paul and in Freemason, selling anywhere between $150-300K, some more upscale than others. But to make it similar to Broad Creek is just plain boring...which means it's right down Norfolk's alley.

 

One of my favorite cities to visit is Atlanta, and right on the edge of downtown, off the interstate, is a mix of lofts and condos, with a few townhouses thrown in, as well as shops. I'd love to see SPQ turn into something like that. Here's one of the complexes I've seen there... 

 

Norfolk has so many game changing ideas that could put it on par with other cities, and yet they go for the safe cookie-cutter plan. So frustrating.

 

Unless you guys know something I don't, every idea from re-establishing the grid and building out office space to the renderings themselves have been very urban.  Even the most recent plan posted, which I think they are going to adopt all show an urban setting.  I wouldn't be too worried about another broad creek development.  Even the recommended housing in the area are attached town homes, nothing detached or single family.

[BFG]

I know I'm probably just paranoid for no reason, I'm just basing it off of past projects. I'm sure it'll look great in the end. Looking at some of the pics in the PDF, it would be great if the public park incorporates artwork like on page 40. Would make a nice companion to the proposed art district, even though it would be a little further up Brambleton.

[vdogg]

So long as Burfoot is on the council there is no such thing as too paranoid. Broad Creek was one of his pet projects too, and I know he'd just love to see something like that replace Tidewater Gardens. Nothing wrong with being vigilant. It will take years to implement this plan and that is plenty of time for things to go off the rails. I know I'm being a bit of a downer here but that Cordish deal just left a bad taste in my mouth.

[varider]

I see nothing wrong with the Cordish proposal. I actually think it could be successful due to recent increase in popular activity downtown. Waterside 2.0 could turn out a bonus catalyst to an already increasingly urban landscape. A revamped marina along the river with a unique variety of restaurants in an open, clean, modern environment would become a common area for the entire city. Include increased suburban patrons and the increased access to mass transit/light rail, downtown is poised for significant growth. I've noticed significantly more foot traffic downtown since the arrival of light rail, Urban outfitters, the work of movements such as Art{sodEmoji.|}Everywhere, the increase of influence from younger generations, etc. I believe that now the City should continue its focus on start-up businesses, relocations, etc. An increased economic core would provide thousands of new residents to support a fully functional downtown. St. Paul's Quadrant plan has me very excited for the future of the city. Who knows, increased demand will increase the heights of towers in the study area. The plan also discusses the integration of light rail transit up Church St, open space area along Tidewater Dr. The mere demolition of extensively impoverished dwellings should impact the value of surrounding property. The reconstruction of the street grid will ensure that even if the development is not as urban as many of us would like, it would still contribute to the density of an already extremely urban southern city. I think that SPQ could definitely encourage the reconstruction of Scope into a modern 21st century arena. Norfolk would be much more suited for a professional franchise due to its dense core, sports heritage, and historic feel. The growth of ODU as both a football school which in turn will boost academic profile and national perception should also play a factor in Norfolk's renaissance both in urban development in and research opportunities that could boost economic activity. Look at the natural background of the city. Norfolk's glory days are ahead. 

[BFG]

Not surprisingly, Norfolk hasn't moved on this one. However, I was driving on Brambleton yesterday, and noticed the warehouse that used to sit at the corner of Tidewater Dr. is now gone. 

 

 

I doubt it has anything to do with SPQ, but I found it interesting that it's no longer there...maybe the city is making baby steps after all?

Edited June 18, 2013 by BFG

[Mos]

The warehouse on the SE corner Tidewater and Brambleton came down 6-8 weeks ago. Nothing from the planning dept. Owned by Runnymede. No recent property transfer. I'm guessing a CVS, but we can always hope for a WaWa. I mean an urban WaWa. Or another 7-11. But not a normal 7-11, a state of he art 7-11 like at Ballentine and Virginia Beach Blvd.

[lil-bear]

I'm hoping for a Wawa!

[vdogg]

http://www.norfolk.gov/DocumentCenter/View/7481

Planning commission is meeting on the 25th to officially adopt the SPQ plan. Maybe we'll finally start seeing some movement on this.

[lil-bear]

This still does not excite me. Too many concessions for those living on the system than those paying into the system!

[mistermetaj]

This still does not excite me. Too many concessions for those living on the system than those paying into the system!

 

If they re-establish the grid (was part of the original draft), that will be the most important part.  

 

As much as the city is giving concessions to those living in TG, they cannot control private market development, only the zoning of the area.  At worse, they will tack on requirements like 10% of all new housing built in the area must be affordable.  However, until the city improves the infrastructure of the SPQ, there won't be anything to see for a long time.

[BFG]

Interesting. I mean, they're still probably going to take another 5 years, but at least they're still "planning". I wonder if the new bus terminal is helping accelerate this.

 

Of course, 5 years from now, I do wonder whether this and Waterside 3.0 will still be in the "planning" stages.

[BFG]

I believe this area is supposed to be part of the District, but this is on Bute St., across from my church. There was a one-story office building that sat there for years, and has since been torn down. I'm guessing that happened within the last couple of weeks...

 

 

I also found this site/blog...

http://stpaulsquadrant.com/

Edited September 12, 2013 by BFG

[Urbanlooker]

http://images.bimedia.net/documents/St_Pauls_Draft_Plan.pdf

Wow they plan to do a lot with this area i like it

Edited September 12, 2013 by Urbanlooker

[BFG]

No new updates that I know of, but last weekend I was in DC and checked out National Harbor. It reminds me of a larger version of the Hampton Town Center but if the SPQ did something close to that, it would really do wonders for the city. Would compliment Waterside and the new Hilton very well.

 

[tallguy81"]

 

seems like a nice project.

 

Apartment Buildings Proposed for NEON District / Downtown
A 48-unit building apartment building has been proposed for the NEON District. The building will feature a dog park, art gallery, sculpture garden, full-size balconies and studio spaces. A separate 126 unit apartment complex was approved in the St. Paul’s Quadrant of Downtown.

http://www.maceandcrown.com/2015/12/14/news-briefs-december-14/

[BFG]

There was a bit of controversy behind the building in that picture, mainly how plain the design is, and how it doesn't at all fit the look of the NEON District. To me, it looks like a shady motel you'd find off Ocean View Blvd. or Military Hwy.; the quirky color patterns don't change my opinion. I dislike it...a lot.

Anyway, the developer realized that people hated the design and supposedly wrote Mayor Fraim a very passive-aggressive note, then threatened to take his business elsewhere, resulting in an 11th hour meeting one recent Friday afternoon. I don't know how that all turned out, but I think this is going back for revisions.

[Helium3]

I think the apartment complex mentioned for the St. Paul's Quadrant is the one talked about in this other topic. Like the Neon District building, the design leaves something to be desired. It's honestly not horrible, but it doesn't really fit in with the city's plan for the St. Paul's Quadrant. I guess we can at least hope that it'll be an impetus for future mixed use development in the quadrant. 

Edited December 20, 2015 by Helium3

[mistermetaj]

This building is as bad as it gets.  Looks like a 1960s lodge.  Norfolk needs to maintain a certain standard of design and this falls way too flat.

[tallguy81"]

building looks like crap.  the development in general seems nice.

[lil-bear]

Has any momentum died down on this? All that planning the city did for what? Nothing but a bus transfer station and a crappy apartment project.

UGH!

[Arctic_Tern]

On one of the recent agendas, there was a motion to zone the area as the "St. Pauls Redevelopment Area", but wasn't voted on due to a request for removal by the member that suggested it. I'll see if I can find it.

[lil-bear]

I doubt that any real progress will be made. Sad!