St. Paul's Quadrant (Phase 2-Under Construction)

[zeppelin14]

Looks nice, but again with the 4 story apartments. Put in some different height. And did anyone else notice that the Snyder Lot is listed as Lot 1? There's no info in this download however. Anyone have info on this?

And does anyone want to update the thread of the Fusion Apartments with the new pictures from the bottom of the download? I'm on my phone and it just seems like a lot of work!

[vdogg]

Well, if we can't have height this is a good substitute. Markedly better materials, higher density, and as someone said a "D.C. vibe". I can live with it, seems more *cityish. On a side note, the Pamunkey will be making an investment in the area for a grocery store.

https://www.pilotonline.com/business/vp-bz-pamunkey-norfolk-grocery-20200901-ie7ezprf3jabnmaxqpnnpttrve-story.html

[vdogg]

21 hours ago, Norf native said:

Here are a few drawings of the proposed block 17.  Go to the 3 Sept ARB for the full rendering.

https://norfolkcityva.iqm2.com/Citizens/FileOpen.aspx?Type=1&ID=1443&Inline=True

 

 

Did they change the document? I don't see these renderings at that link.

[Sky06]

City has a basic survey for interested residents on their .gov page.  I like the design and the incorporation of art, colors, outdoor community elements, rooftop, etc.  Height would be nice, but since these first projects border main streets and serve to catch people's attention for the area, I think something like this is appropriate.  Look for taller buildings in the more interior spaces later on when things start to get back to "normal."  For now, they need people who want to live there.  Just to be clear, the video states that the existing McDonald's will be incorporated into the new building - it's not a separate McDonald's.  This should give it a more urban feel vs having a typical boring McD building. 

 

P.S., I'm back (again).  Hope everyone is staying safe.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Sky06

[Norfolk757Kid]

 I'm sure the people who already live there would want to live there

[Arctic_Tern]

Here's the website for interested parties: https://www.stpaulsdistrict.org/

[Norf Native]

Found this conceptual rendering of Block 1 (Schneider Lot) on Brinshore's website.

 

Also found a reference to Block 18 (where the McDonalds is located) on the planning department agenda for a development certificate.  Sorry, no renderings yet.

[Norf Native]

St Pauls

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by Norf native
Wrong image

[lammius]

I see there's something on the southwest corner of City Hall/St Pauls?

[baobabs727]

9 hours ago, lammius said:

I see there's something on the southwest corner of City Hall/St Pauls?

Looks like apartments. 

[mistermetaj]

I still don't understand why they put a bus terminal there instead of by the Amtrak station and light rail. By all means put a stop by SPQ and in downtown, but that terminal just interrupts the flow of the area which needs a full re-establishment of the grid and better connectivity to the rest of downtown.

[Norf Native]

An article in todays Pilot about St Pauls...

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/vp-nw-norfolk-st-pauls-road-grant-20200911-72eubmm5yzamnb2xcoioj6p36m-story.html

[brikkman]

I believe I am the only one who believes this plan is extremely short-sided. This will do nothing to help the city grow and attract people to the area or region. We are but all fatigue and so tired of seeing the projects that we think anything new is better.

[vdogg]

On 9/10/2020 at 5:48 PM, Norf Native said:

Found this conceptual rendering of Block 1 (Schneider Lot) on Brinshore's website.

 

Also found a reference to Block 18 (where the McDonalds is located) on the planning department agenda for a development certificate.  Sorry, no renderings yet.

They need to keep their crap away from Snyder Lot. Anything short of a high rise there is criminal. That is a main entrance to downtown, second only to the Gateway entrance. Whatever goes there needs to be big and bold. I’d even see if Cordish wanted to develop an apartment tower there.

[brikkman]

On 9/14/2020 at 11:38 PM, NFKjeff said:

It could be looked at as short sighted, but I don’t believe that is accurate.  I believe there are several goals being worked toward with the St. Paul’s Quadrant project. As others have mentioned, one of these is flood mitigation, which is being addressed by the creation of a string of connected lakes. One of the other goals is the replacement of run down affordable housing with a mixture of modern housing at multiple income levels, and the creation of some amount of employment and retail in the area for its residents. We must also bear in mind that much of the clearing, and new infrastructure for this project is coming via the Federal Govt. which comes with numerous stipulations and criteria which must be met. Yes, this land is in a prime location, and I’m sure many for us would prefer multiple 30 floor towers, or other imposing structures to be built there, but I don’t think that was ever in the plan. I think this will be a very good project, which will indeed spur more development, especially in the Harbor Park area, by making it’s surroundings much more livable, and appealing.

If that was the plan from the very start, it was a bad plan from the beginning. I have a bigger issue with how this big chunk  of land was allocated and relationship to the rest of DT. I'm not suggesting this shouldn't be built, I do however question the location as we are referring to 3 huge lots of land. In a lot of ways it cuts opportunity for growth and actually produces a more suburban fell where as I believe the urban core should be expanded. In that area, the city should be focused on creating destination and attracting "bigger" businesses to the area.  I do understand the government stipulations but this is why I said it was a bad plan from jump. There is absolutely no reason why Norfolk couldn't be on the same track as a Charlotte or even an Atlanta but I digress. As many stated before, we are not off 95, you have to come there for a reason which we all know. I don't know, you guys are a lot smarter than me when it comes to these things. I just say "yuck", lol.

 

[BFG]

34 minutes ago, brikkman said:

 As many stated before, we are not off 95, you have to come there for a reason which we all know. 

This isn't necessarily related to SPQ, but this is the one thing that bugs me about the status quo mindset of this area's leadership. No urgency, and every project takes at least three years to come to fruition. You already have to go out of your way to come here by jumping off 95, and driving an hour+ on 64. But yet, we don't offer much reason for someone to come here, at least no more than ATL or Charlotte. The civilian job salaries are way below average, public transit's a joke, and any promising idea is either pooh-poohed by the fuddy-duddies, or is very underwhelming.

I know Covid put a lot of potential things on hold (Something in the Water, the regional arena), but I just want to see this area reach the next level and stop being seen as an afterthought while I'm still young. Every time we try something new, the John Atkinsons and Kerry Doughertys cry foul with their NIMBY BS. I know I'm venting, but I'm just tired of Hampton Roads underachieving. 

Edited September 17, 2020 by BFG

[Norfolk757Kid]

13 hours ago, BFG said:

This isn't necessarily related to SPQ, but this is the one thing that bugs me about the status quo mindset of this area's leadership. No urgency, and every project takes at least three years to come to fruition. You already have to go out of your way to come here by jumping off 95, and driving an hour+ on 64. But yet, we don't offer much reason for someone to come here, at least no more than ATL or Charlotte. The civilian job salaries are way below average, public transit's a joke, and any promising idea is either pooh-poohed by the fuddy-duddies, or is very underwhelming.

I know Covid put a lot of potential things on hold (Something in the Water, the regional arena), but I just want to see this area reach the next level and stop being seen as an afterthought while I'm still young. Every time we try something new, the John Atkinsons and Kerry Doughertys cry foul with their NIMBY BS. I know I'm venting, but I'm just tired of Hampton Roads underachieving. 

Don't get me started about Kerry Doughtery haha

[urbanvb]

I found this story on Bloomberg. Typical negative news story. It’s a little interesting this story seems to be mostly written in February yet just published today. 
 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-09-22/how-norfolk-virginia-is-using-tax-breaks-to-demolish-black-neighborhoods?fbclid=IwAR1m3UG85irSGAQMOzA4iWPfAn_1zD4FMC5BtGf_TMXxdLNPcn8qNa6vL_Y

Edited September 22, 2020 by urbanvb

[BFG]

An article from an organization whose founder ran a city that’s had nothing but gentrification the last couple decades. Ironic. 

[mistermetaj]

The city needs to do a better job of proposing an actual plan for the TG residents. That doesn't mean empty promises of employment training, jobs during construction, or moving them to other public housing sites. It means setting up residents with section 8 housing throughout the city. The argument to removing public housing is the decentralization of poverty (something Paul Riddick clearly doesn't care about). There are plenty of landlords in Norfolk or the greater Hampton Roads area who rent to section 8 and are always looking for more residents. The federal government might not be a great landlord or developer, but they pay on time and actually require the landlords to treat the residents decently and maintain their homes. There is dignity in living in a private property over public housing. Nobody who needs public assistance should be forced to live in unkept barracks. 

The gaslighting in this article is so harmful. Referring to an underdeveloped, literally sinking public housing project as a "historically black neighborhood" is damaging to the image of Norfolk and residents who live in TG. It's turned gentrification into an almost racist word and keeps people, both city residents outside and inside public housing, stuck in the status quo. It's anti-progressive and divisive. 

[BFG]

The city has since responded. 

https://www.stpaulsdistrict.org/post/response-to-bloomberg-article-about-st-paul-s-area-published-september-22-2020-by-caleb-melby?fbclid=IwAR1WYvPQKWeo9oghKESzG_7_AcvFMT43nIANd9GpMU24lD_PGVL8C9hLFWE

[vdogg]

6 hours ago, BFG said:

The city has since responded. 

https://www.stpaulsdistrict.org/post/response-to-bloomberg-article-about-st-paul-s-area-published-september-22-2020-by-caleb-melby?fbclid=IwAR1WYvPQKWeo9oghKESzG_7_AcvFMT43nIANd9GpMU24lD_PGVL8C9hLFWE

Lori went in! Wow, you don't see that type of letter from a city official everyday. Stopped just short of calling him names. 

[zeppelin14]

I didn't expect anything less from the Huffington Post.

[lammius]

she kept the receipts 

[Norf Native]

Demo and construction will be starting soon.  

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/vp-nw-norfolk-st-paul-construction-demolition-start-20201027-egxrvdrv35h7vayca4tkfzkwre-story.html