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St. Paul's Quadrant (Phase 2-Under Construction)


Aughie

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On 8/24/2018 at 7:34 AM, brikkman said:

That is a significant walk to the nearest LR station to be considered TOD!

The distance from the City Hall stop to Freemason St is about 1/4 of a mile and to Brambleton is just over 1/2 of a mile, so that puts this development well within TOD requirements. If a second light rail line is run up Church St, then the SPQ would definitely get another light rail stop right in the middle of it. Also another reason why they should be looking at much more dense outcomes for this whole area. Granted in most cases, it is best to plan for a conservative result but hope the area becomes attractive to developers for larger buildings. Though with it being Norfolk, it wouldn't shock me if in the end what gets built looks similar to what has been proposed.

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I would like to see (and I think that is the direction) SPQ develop like the South End area of Charlotte. Key would be getting a LR line up St. Paul's Blvd. I don't think SPQ (at least the northern part) will ever really be an extension of DT. Rather it should become a denser urban neighborhood.

South End is booming with low/mid height apartments, office buildings, shops, etc. Very walkable (it seems).

Check out the area on the Charlotte page.

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Looking over a few images, that would be a nice thing for Norfolk to work towards. Urban enough to not be a downtown extension, but still part of that core. Norfolk could really build up a nice surrounding area with Fort Norfolk, NEON, and now SPQ. Make it walkable, maybe with a skywalk going across St. Paul's, then another along Brambleton.

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  • 5 weeks later...

Up close, the design is growing on me, but I really think they're wasting space here. They could've accomplished more by building eight- or ten-story buildings, on 1/3 of the footprint. It's also very bland IMO...the apartments along Monticello near Doumar's have a more unique look than this.

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Well, they are appropriate to an old city...they are reminiscent of the apartment/condo buildings between Hampton Blvd & Colley, etc. They are brick. Modern pre-fab EIFS style would be jarring anywhere near Church St.  Yes, brick belongs on midrises in historic areas...and not on skyscrapers! But I digress.

Edited by baobabs727
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The details do look good with these new buildings, if the area has this overall look, it will definitely work. My biggest issue with these buildings is that they should be 4-5 stories with the first floor being as much retail as possible. The more mixed use these buildings are, the more pedestrian activity they help create.

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1 hour ago, urbanlife said:

The details do look good with these new buildings, if the area has this overall look, it will definitely work. My biggest issue with these buildings is that they should be 4-5 stories with the first floor being as much retail as possible. The more mixed use these buildings are, the more pedestrian activity they help create.

I would tend to agree with you. 4 stories and some retail would've been perfect.

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This is all mainly lower income / affordable housing. It was always going to be a budget development. It's coming out nice and adds a nice bit of urbanity for what it is. I think with some nice landscaping, this will be a nice addition. The city did it right when they required them to move the buildings flush with the street and moved the parking within the complex.

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Not every development could or should be mixed use. I think this place is fine without it considering that it is a little farther out of downtown and the only people outside of the people that lived there that would use those businesses would probably be people going to the Scope. That being said I personally would not live on the first floor of a complex with heavy foot traffic.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...

Ok, this slipped through the cracks. Wavy did a report around the same time as the pilot but they also included more renderings. I feel much, MUCH, better about this project now. These renderings show the type of urban development that I was looking for in that area. Also, it looks like they’re going to begin the first phase next summer. Hopefully I can find the file with the actual renderings  so I can post it here, but the renderings are in the video.

https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/norfolk/new-renderings-revealed-in-norfolk-s-st-paul-s-redevelopment/1389666316

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  • vdogg pinned this topic

The renderings are reminding me of National Harbor in DC. I haven't been up that way in about five years, but I was really impressed when I visited. Ever since then, I've wanted to see Norfolk bring in just a fraction of the vibe and culture DC has, and between this and a possible casino, plus all the other developments of the past few years, I see a lot of potential for the city and region.

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17 hours ago, vdogg said:

A building of that height on Snyder lot would be a travesty. That is a gateway to downtown. They need to go tall there. Disappointed with this part.

The building looks like it would make a decent base of a tower, but that open courtyard along Plume is where the tower portion should be.  I would have expected something at least 35 stories being built on this site. This building itself is much more in line with what I could see being built in the SPQ.

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  • vdogg unpinned this topic
  • 4 weeks later...

I noticed this in last week's agenda. Apparently, it's now the "Downtown-St. Paul District". I kinda like the idea of Norfolk having Districts...gives it more of an urban feel.

https://www.norfolk.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Item/4756?fileID=9474

Looks like they want more height to the portion west of Church Street, and more residential east of that. Hopefully they still allow for more tallish buildings like apartments. But I'm glad they're embracing the idea of higher density in that area.

dspd2.png

dspd.png

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