St. Paul's Quadrant (Phase 2-Under Construction)

[Willy18]

But why dump millions into this land to make it look like a city park...it's not? Only for developer(s) to come along and rip it apart for high-rises. Like I said, clean it up so the developer(s) have a clean slate and hold their feet to the fire with the citys vision. While we wait and the grass starts growing people can walk their dogs, play frisbee and take selfies until the earth movers arrive. Then Norfolk can work with the developer to incorporate green space into the construction design.  

I do agree, a river walk connecting Harbor Park to Waterside and FN is a very good plan. That doesn't have to happen now though...let's get some big developers on the hook first. There's zero tax revenue coming in on a walking path and big azz park...just sayin.     

[BFG]

3 hours ago, vdogg said:

It's like Norfolk is constantly trying to become Virginia Beach at the same time Virginia Beach is constantly trying to become Norfolk. Just be yourselves, lol.

Or (wait for it) become one jurisdiction and offer the best of both worlds...

[Up2313]

Part of that becoming a Greenway inland was always going to happen, its just a question of how much. That area has a high risk for flooding as well as sea level rise. Im pretty sure that area use to be an old Creek back in the day that was filled it. 

I really don't like the idea of park space next to the interstate, too noisy. They really need to start evaluating alternatives for the the interstate redesign. 

Edited May 16, 2019 by Up2313

[baobabs727]

The sky is falling! Run for the hills! This Seal Level Rise Coastal Flooding Land Subsidence Resiliency Resilience Officer/Grand Pubah-Czarina will surely have her way here (read her warning in the article), and so the whole area will eventually be relegated to green-space, exclusively. When Harbor Park reaches the end of her functional life, she will be razed and moved to higher ground...like Suffolk!  

Watch as fear spreads like a cancer  aided by official city govt policy & surrounding land values plummet as they have been doing in residential waterfront and water-adjacent Downtown & the Hague! The tax base will shrink, nowhere to expand, people move out, taxes go up, vicious cycle leads to a reckoning for Norfolk that makes  Mother Nature's wrath look like child's play! Yay!

 

[mistermetaj]

I don't understand the hate for this proposal. Every SPQ proposal had a green space that looks essentially like this. Even in the images SPQ is gridded up nicely. 

If you want high rise buildings, you need to limit developable land to the point it makes sense to build up. This takes up a huge chunk of land with a beautiful green space. 

This vision has a ton of advantages.

[BFG]

I guess I’m just underwhelmed having seen so many mockups showing a cluster of buildings. I’m willing to let nature take its course, however. 

[Helium3]

4 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

The sky is falling! Run for the hills! This Seal Level Rise Coastal Flooding Land Subsidence Resiliency Resilience Officer/Grand Pubah-Czarina will surely have her way here (read her warning in the article), and so the whole area will eventually be relegated to green-space, exclusively. When Harbor Park reaches the end of her functional life, she will be razed and moved to higher ground...like Suffolk!  

Watch as fear spreads like a cancer  aided by official city govt policy & surrounding land values plummet as they have been doing in residential waterfront and water-adjacent Downtown & the Hague! The tax base will shrink, nowhere to expand, people move out, taxes go up, vicious cycle leads to a reckoning for Norfolk that makes  Mother Nature's wrath look like child's play! Yay!

I realize that this is at least partly tongue-in-cheek , and I do agree that this proposal goes overboard with the copious amounts of green-space, but sea-level rise is a thing that Norfolk should be concerned about. It's going to happen whether we want to talk about it or not, and it's something that should be taken into consideration with every major development in Norfolk going forward. Otherwise we're just creating more problems for the next generation to solve.

And given all of the problems left to us by the previous generation that we're still scrambling to fix (location of public housing, reestablishing street grids, I-264 cutting through downtown,  loss of urban character through urban renewal, etc.), we'd be wise not to repeat the current-day versions of their mistakes. If that means relegating certain areas of the city to green-space (but like I said, not this much) to help mitigate flooding, then I say so be it. 

[Diego Maradona]

Am I the only one on this entire board that suspects that all the "kinda urban" development or the lack thereof is actually deliberate?

Like...I believe the city officials know that urban growth leads to hope and individualism and considering how many military installations are in the area and the idea that many of the people in the area serve the armed forces in some way, I would think the last thing any community in the 7 cities would want to do is encourage individualism.  The military is all about being agreeable and basically, soldiers.  Ever think about how personal capitalism would go against that in their eyes??? 

Seriously!  No one else thinks it's suspicious how bad so many of the decisions are?????????

I can't be the only one who sees this

 

On the other hand....

https://www.alexmarshall.org/2007/09/24/urban-renewal-in-norfolk/

Edited May 18, 2019 by Diego Maradona

[BFG]

The urban renewal and Princess Anne/Norfolk County becoming cities will always be the greatest what-ifs for this region. I'd love to see the alternate Tidewater where 1) Norfolk doesn't become so bulldozer happy, tearing down slums but renovating older buildings on Main and Granby, and 2) parts of the two former counties (let's say half of each) eventually become part of Norfolk.

[Norf Native]

Norfolk hopes to buy the post office site  

https://pilotonline.com/news/government/local/article_77bb7732-8edb-11e9-a6d3-bb8953676644.html

[urbanlife]

4 hours ago, Norf native said:

Norfolk hopes to buy the post office site  

https://pilotonline.com/news/government/local/article_77bb7732-8edb-11e9-a6d3-bb8953676644.html

That is good news, that would open up a huge chunk of land to redevelop. I really hope this neighborhood works out better than what was there before.

[Urbanlooker]

It could be good news but when reading the article the city could be charged a few arms and legs to get it. Now I'm all for Norfolk acquiring this parcel but it needs to be reasonably done so. Besides there's no way the USPS needs the same sized facility given they only process incoming mail now.

Edited June 17, 2019 by Urbanlooker

[carolinaboy]

Arena site.

[BFG]

I think the article said the city wants to use it for a municipal building. 

[BFG]

5 hours ago, carolinaboy said:

Arena site.

The more I think about it, the more I like this idea. It’s off a major road, close to the Interstate, has enough land for the building and at least one garage, and the Scope wouldn’t lose business during the construction phase. It would be the perfect major project to officially kickoff the SPQ revitalization. 

[vdogg]

6 hours ago, BFG said:

I think the article said the city wants to use it for a municipal building. 

That’s for another parcel. The city is thinking of putting a school on this land.

[vdogg]

 I’ve been ignoring this one because of where it is, but apparently it fronts Church Street? I can’t for the life of me place where this is. The documentation shows it at the corner of Indian River and Wilson Road. 

https://www.norfolk.gov/AgendaCenter/ViewFile/Item/5100?fileID=10011

[vdogg]

I think it’s a typo in the document. The street view doesn’t look anywhere near Church Street.

[HRVA]

It’s in Berkley. 

[BFG]

Yeah that's nowhere near Church Street. It's a nice development, though.

[vdogg]

Pretty odd location for that type of development. Hope it’s successful and perhaps spurs some more urban development on that side of the bridge.

[urbanlife]

On 6/21/2019 at 6:44 PM, vdogg said:

Pretty odd location for that type of development. Hope it’s successful and perhaps spurs some more urban development on that side of the bridge.

It would be cool for Norfolk to plan a new light rail line that ran over the river into Berkley to help spur urban development through that neighborhood and it would be easy to run through South Norfolk and into Chesapeake. Really, any city around Norfolk should be trying to get on board with light rail even if Virginia Beach doesn't want to. 

[vdogg]

120 day notice to be issued to phase 1 Tidewater Gardens residents on August 20th. Expect to see demolition of that section to begin first part of next year.

[BFG]

First Presbyterian Church is hosting a forum about gentrification concerns. The pastor of that church raises interesting points within the article, and I like the idea of having a forum to maintain transparency.

https://www.pilotonline.com/news/norfolk/vp-nw-norfolk-gentrifying-forum-20190821-x4yic3rujvdbxkvymb276pivjm-story.html

[BFG]

I'm watching last night's Work Session meeting on Youtube, and they're talking a lot about SPQ, primarily Blocks 19 and 20, which are along St. Paul's Blvd. and Wood Street, behind the fire station and bus transfer station.

From what I understand, according to a SPQ rep, the plan is to have more higher-density near Fenchurch and St. Paul, with a mix of residential, commercial, and community amenities. The Tidewater Gardens side would feature more lower-density. It's a lot to take in, but the SPQ portion starts at the 31 minute mark. The presentation outlining the two blocks is about 47 minutes in, and I included a few screenshots. This goes before the Planning Commission on November 14.

City Manager Chip Filer talks (59 minutes) about other cities that implemented similar programs, specifically Atlanta's East Lake and Columbus's Pact/East Side. Nothing is set in stone, but the common thing I'm seeing is mid-rise, 4-6 story buildings. Not the density we want, but still a decent enough presence from 264, esp. if they add a few towers closer to St. Paul's Blvd. Hopefully, Fort Norfolk can pick up the height.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lowk6LVUkP4