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St. Paul's Quadrant


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On 6/21/2019 at 6:44 PM, vdogg said:

Pretty odd location for that type of development. Hope it’s successful and perhaps spurs some more urban development on that side of the bridge.

It would be cool for Norfolk to plan a new light rail line that ran over the river into Berkley to help spur urban development through that neighborhood and it would be easy to run through South Norfolk and into Chesapeake. Really, any city around Norfolk should be trying to get on board with light rail even if Virginia Beach doesn't want to. 

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City has a basic survey for interested residents on their .gov page.  I like the design and the incorporation of art, colors, outdoor community elements, rooftop, etc.  Height would be nice, but since

The city has since responded.  https://www.stpaulsdistrict.org/post/response-to-bloomberg-article-about-st-paul-s-area-published-september-22-2020-by-caleb-melby?fbclid=IwAR1WYvPQKWeo9oghKESzG_7_

The city needs to do a better job of proposing an actual plan for the TG residents. That doesn't mean empty promises of employment training, jobs during construction, or moving them to other public ho

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First Presbyterian Church is hosting a forum about gentrification concerns. The pastor of that church raises interesting points within the article, and I like the idea of having a forum to maintain transparency.

https://www.pilotonline.com/news/norfolk/vp-nw-norfolk-gentrifying-forum-20190821-x4yic3rujvdbxkvymb276pivjm-story.html

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I'm watching last night's Work Session meeting on Youtube, and they're talking a lot about SPQ, primarily Blocks 19 and 20, which are along St. Paul's Blvd. and Wood Street, behind the fire station and bus transfer station.

From what I understand, according to a SPQ rep, the plan is to have more higher-density near Fenchurch and St. Paul, with a mix of residential, commercial, and community amenities. The Tidewater Gardens side would feature more lower-density. It's a lot to take in, but the SPQ portion starts at the 31 minute mark. The presentation outlining the two blocks is about 47 minutes in, and I included a few screenshots. This goes before the Planning Commission on November 14.

City Manager Chip Filer talks (59 minutes) about other cities that implemented similar programs, specifically Atlanta's East Lake and Columbus's Pact/East Side. Nothing is set in stone, but the common thing I'm seeing is mid-rise, 4-6 story buildings. Not the density we want, but still a decent enough presence from 264, esp. if they add a few towers closer to St. Paul's Blvd. Hopefully, Fort Norfolk can pick up the height.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lowk6LVUkP4

 

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The wording on this article is weird. But if I am reading it correctly, Phase 1 (the first of four) of the move-outs from Tidewater Gardens was supposed to be completed last summer. Apparently, due to bureaucracy, 3/4 of phase 1 are still full. They are expecting phase 1 to take several more months.

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/virginia/vp-nw-fzx19-norfolk-st-paul-update-usi-20191231-jcvd2ov4i5gcbf3ekfvinekbvq-story.html

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I understand the concerns, I do. I’m black, I get it. Racial segregation is a real concern, and concentrating poverty in other areas is not optimal. That WILL need to be addressed. But this particular plan has been talked about for 20 years. It’s been debated and redebated and signed and resigned and cancelled and resurrected. Eventually you just have to start DOING things and let the chips fall where they may. The time to file the lawsuit was 20 years ago, not when you’re halfway into the move. Don’t try and block change for the hell of it, this ship has sailed.

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On the agenda for the May 28th planning commission meeting are the vacation of multiple right of ways that are deemed necessary for the redevelopment of St. Pauls. It's good to see some forward movement on this project in this weird time of life in Norfolk.

http://norfolkcityva.iqm2.com/citizens/FileOpen.aspx?Type=1&ID=1339&Inline=True

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51 minutes ago, BeagleAccountant said:

On the agenda for the May 28th planning commission meeting are the vacation of multiple right of ways that are deemed necessary for the redevelopment of St. Pauls. It's good to see some forward movement on this project in this weird time of life in Norfolk.

http://norfolkcityva.iqm2.com/citizens/FileOpen.aspx?Type=1&ID=1339&Inline=True

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It's hard to tell what's happening here, especially since north is to the right instead of the normal orientation with north pointing up.  Comparing this map with Google Maps, it looks like they are re-creating more of an orthogonal grid.  Freemason Street will extend to the east across St. Paul's Blvd, and Church street will be extended to the south, ending at St. Mary's Basilica, which is almost all the way to the ramp from the Berkeley Bridge. 

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Relocation of residents and demolition are being delayed after a legal agreement with residents and advocates sparked by coronavirus. Residents can still work with the city on moving out but they won't be required to be a part of that process until October 19th at the earliest.

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/vp-nw-coronavirus-norfolk-st-pauls-delay-20200505-ry5lpemqvjexdkqabalwfr64xe-story.html?outputType=amp&__twitter_impression=true

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So, I just moved to Richmond. I want to compare Broad Street and Brambleton. I think activating Brambleton is key to the St. Paul's redevelopment. It basically functions now as a funnel to 264 and the tunnels and bridges, but like much of downtown has virtually no commercial/retail activity. Brambleton could be the spine of an enlarged downtown for sure, especially if BRT is built in to the St. Paul's redevelopment, and it is rezoned for dense mixed use mid rise development along the corridor. There's plenty of space for stations and plenty of job centers, entertainment venues, and institutions to string together. You can still have people use it to get to the highways but redesign it for people that actually live downtown or want to get downtown without a car as well. 

Edited by Norfolk757Kid
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I think redeveloping NEON into an extension of downtown is important, esp. if they were to build a pedestrian bridge at say, Granby and Brambleton. I know the proposed Granby Tower corner belongs to the government, but that’s really begging to become a mixed-use space, preferably a tower. 

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On 8/7/2020 at 9:44 AM, Norfolk757Kid said:

So, I just moved to Richmond. I want to compare Broad Street and Brambleton. I think activating Brambleton is key to the St. Paul's redevelopment. It basically functions now as a funnel to 264 and the tunnels and bridges, but like much of downtown has virtually no commercial/retail activity. Brambleton could be the spine of an enlarged downtown for sure, especially if BRT is built in to the St. Paul's redevelopment, and it is rezoned for dense mixed use mid rise development along the corridor. There's plenty of space for stations and plenty of job centers, entertainment venues, and institutions to string together. You can still have people use it to get to the highways but redesign it for people that actually live downtown or want to get downtown without a car as well. 

Brambleton would make for a great highrise mixed use corridor.

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At one time wasn't a tower planned for Brambleton Ave?  I thought it was going to be called Hoffler Tower?  Would have been a great catalyst to re-envision Brambleton Ave from a commuter thoroughfare to a much more commercial Avenue.  

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2 hours ago, EJ_LEWIS said:

At one time wasn't a tower planned for Brambleton Ave?  I thought it was going to be called Hoffler Tower?  Would have been a great catalyst to re-envision Brambleton Ave from a commuter thoroughfare to a much more commercial Avenue.  

I believe you are correct. AH had a short-lived proposal to build a tower in the neighborhood of 32 floors. I believe this predated the current World Trade Center, and that was the name floated for the project, IIRC. This was also before Divaris had started to build in Town Center.

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8 hours ago, NFKjeff said:

I believe you are correct. AH had a short-lived proposal to build a tower in the neighborhood of 32 floors. I believe this predated the current World Trade Center, and that was the name floated for the project, IIRC. This was also before Divaris had started to build in Town Center.

Hoffler tower was actually not associated with AH, it was a Miami developer that proposed that. Prior to this, there were 2 33-story towers proposed for where McDonald's and the bus station sit now. That was pre McArthur Center. Not sure why that died.

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On 8/11/2020 at 9:16 AM, vdogg said:

Hoffler tower was actually not associated with AH, it was a Miami developer that proposed that. Prior to this, there were 2 33-story towers proposed for where McDonald's and the bus station sit now. That was pre McArthur Center. Not sure why that died.

That makes sense. As soon as I saw that picture I thought it looked very Miami.

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22 hours ago, BeagleAccountant said:

The gas station that was between the McDonald’s and the bus station on St Paul’s has been demolished. Anyone know what’s planned for that lot?

The city owns all that property clear to the Popeyes and back to where the old triangle shopping Center was to the rear. I’m hoping they’ll tear it all down, but will probably leave the Popeyes because it’s new-ish. The McDonald’s needs to go or needs to be re-built/renovated. That gas station was a breeding ground for bad “deals” and violence

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