St. Paul's Quadrant

[BeagleAccountant 176]

18 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

The city owns all that property clear to the Popeyes and back to where the old triangle shopping Center was to the rear. I’m hoping they’ll tear it all down, but will probably leave the Popeyes because it’s new-ish. The McDonald’s needs to go or needs to be re-built/renovated. That gas station was a breeding ground for bad “deals” and violence

Yeah, that gas station was tough. If they managed to clear all three, we could see a great rebirth of that entire block in short order.

Edited August 28, 2020 by BeagleAccountant

[BFG 1227]

I'd be perfectly okay with them being torn down - although I swear Popeye's was a bank back in the day - and see them return to the ground floor of whatever building goes in its place.

[urbanlife 357]

It would be nice to see that triangle redeveloped into a highrise mixed use district

[Norf Native 76]

Here are a few drawings of the proposed block 17.  Go to the 3 Sept ARB for the full rendering.

https://norfolkcityva.iqm2.com/Citizens/FileOpen.aspx?Type=1&ID=1443&Inline=True

 

 

Edited August 31, 2020 by Norf native
added pictures

[BFG 1227]

I’m getting DC and NYC vibes from this. One thing downtown Norfolk lacks is more street level retail incorporated into the apartment buildings, so I love that, along with stuff for local artists.

Page 87 mentions a proposed McDonald’s, something I figured would happen with future development. 

[zeppelin14 179]

Looks nice, but again with the 4 story apartments. Put in some different height. And did anyone else notice that the Snyder Lot is listed as Lot 1? There's no info in this download however. Anyone have info on this?

And does anyone want to update the thread of the Fusion Apartments with the new pictures from the bottom of the download? I'm on my phone and it just seems like a lot of work!

[vdogg 1166]

Well, if we can't have height this is a good substitute. Markedly better materials, higher density, and as someone said a "D.C. vibe". I can live with it, seems more *cityish. On a side note, the Pamunkey will be making an investment in the area for a grocery store.

https://www.pilotonline.com/business/vp-bz-pamunkey-norfolk-grocery-20200901-ie7ezprf3jabnmaxqpnnpttrve-story.html

[vdogg 1166]

21 hours ago, Norf native said:

Here are a few drawings of the proposed block 17.  Go to the 3 Sept ARB for the full rendering.

https://norfolkcityva.iqm2.com/Citizens/FileOpen.aspx?Type=1&ID=1443&Inline=True

 

 

Did they change the document? I don't see these renderings at that link.

[Sky06 8]

City has a basic survey for interested residents on their .gov page.  I like the design and the incorporation of art, colors, outdoor community elements, rooftop, etc.  Height would be nice, but since these first projects border main streets and serve to catch people's attention for the area, I think something like this is appropriate.  Look for taller buildings in the more interior spaces later on when things start to get back to "normal."  For now, they need people who want to live there.  Just to be clear, the video states that the existing McDonald's will be incorporated into the new building - it's not a separate McDonald's.  This should give it a more urban feel vs having a typical boring McD building. 

 

P.S., I'm back (again).  Hope everyone is staying safe.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Sky06

[Norfolk757Kid 118]

 I'm sure the people who already live there would want to live there

[Arctic_Tern 78]

Here's the website for interested parties: https://www.stpaulsdistrict.org/

[Norf Native 76]

Found this conceptual rendering of Block 1 (Schneider Lot) on Brinshore's website.

 

Also found a reference to Block 18 (where the McDonalds is located) on the planning department agenda for a development certificate.  Sorry, no renderings yet.

[Norf Native 76]

St Pauls

 

Edited September 10, 2020 by Norf native
Wrong image

[lammius 105]

I see there's something on the southwest corner of City Hall/St Pauls?

[baobabs727 507]

9 hours ago, lammius said:

I see there's something on the southwest corner of City Hall/St Pauls?

Looks like apartments. 

[mistermetaj 64]

I still don't understand why they put a bus terminal there instead of by the Amtrak station and light rail. By all means put a stop by SPQ and in downtown, but that terminal just interrupts the flow of the area which needs a full re-establishment of the grid and better connectivity to the rest of downtown.

[Norf Native 76]

An article in todays Pilot about St Pauls...

https://www.pilotonline.com/government/local/vp-nw-norfolk-st-pauls-road-grant-20200911-72eubmm5yzamnb2xcoioj6p36m-story.html

[brikkman 115]

I believe I am the only one who believes this plan is extremely short-sided. This will do nothing to help the city grow and attract people to the area or region. We are but all fatigue and so tired of seeing the projects that we think anything new is better.

[NFKjeff 359]

4 hours ago, brikkman said:

I believe I am the only one who believes this plan is extremely short-sided. This will do nothing to help the city grow and attract people to the area or region. We are but all fatigue and so tired of seeing the projects that we think anything new is better.

It could be looked at as short sighted, but I don’t believe that is accurate.  I believe there are several goals being worked toward with the St. Paul’s Quadrant project. As others have mentioned, one of these is flood mitigation, which is being addressed by the creation of a string of connected lakes. One of the other goals is the replacement of run down affordable housing with a mixture of modern housing at multiple income levels, and the creation of some amount of employment and retail in the area for its residents. We must also bear in mind that much of the clearing, and new infrastructure for this project is coming via the Federal Govt. which comes with numerous stipulations and criteria which must be met. Yes, this land is in a prime location, and I’m sure many for us would prefer multiple 30 floor towers, or other imposing structures to be built there, but I don’t think that was ever in the plan. I think this will be a very good project, which will indeed spur more development, especially in the Harbor Park area, by making it’s surroundings much more livable, and appealing.

[vdogg 1166]

On 9/10/2020 at 5:48 PM, Norf Native said:

Found this conceptual rendering of Block 1 (Schneider Lot) on Brinshore's website.

 

Also found a reference to Block 18 (where the McDonalds is located) on the planning department agenda for a development certificate.  Sorry, no renderings yet.

They need to keep their crap away from Snyder Lot. Anything short of a high rise there is criminal. That is a main entrance to downtown, second only to the Gateway entrance. Whatever goes there needs to be big and bold. I’d even see if Cordish wanted to develop an apartment tower there.

[brikkman 115]

On 9/14/2020 at 11:38 PM, NFKjeff said:

It could be looked at as short sighted, but I don’t believe that is accurate.  I believe there are several goals being worked toward with the St. Paul’s Quadrant project. As others have mentioned, one of these is flood mitigation, which is being addressed by the creation of a string of connected lakes. One of the other goals is the replacement of run down affordable housing with a mixture of modern housing at multiple income levels, and the creation of some amount of employment and retail in the area for its residents. We must also bear in mind that much of the clearing, and new infrastructure for this project is coming via the Federal Govt. which comes with numerous stipulations and criteria which must be met. Yes, this land is in a prime location, and I’m sure many for us would prefer multiple 30 floor towers, or other imposing structures to be built there, but I don’t think that was ever in the plan. I think this will be a very good project, which will indeed spur more development, especially in the Harbor Park area, by making it’s surroundings much more livable, and appealing.

If that was the plan from the very start, it was a bad plan from the beginning. I have a bigger issue with how this big chunk  of land was allocated and relationship to the rest of DT. I'm not suggesting this shouldn't be built, I do however question the location as we are referring to 3 huge lots of land. In a lot of ways it cuts opportunity for growth and actually produces a more suburban fell where as I believe the urban core should be expanded. In that area, the city should be focused on creating destination and attracting "bigger" businesses to the area.  I do understand the government stipulations but this is why I said it was a bad plan from jump. There is absolutely no reason why Norfolk couldn't be on the same track as a Charlotte or even an Atlanta but I digress. As many stated before, we are not off 95, you have to come there for a reason which we all know. I don't know, you guys are a lot smarter than me when it comes to these things. I just say "yuck", lol.

 

[BFG 1227]

34 minutes ago, brikkman said:

 As many stated before, we are not off 95, you have to come there for a reason which we all know. 

This isn't necessarily related to SPQ, but this is the one thing that bugs me about the status quo mindset of this area's leadership. No urgency, and every project takes at least three years to come to fruition. You already have to go out of your way to come here by jumping off 95, and driving an hour+ on 64. But yet, we don't offer much reason for someone to come here, at least no more than ATL or Charlotte. The civilian job salaries are way below average, public transit's a joke, and any promising idea is either pooh-poohed by the fuddy-duddies, or is very underwhelming.

I know Covid put a lot of potential things on hold (Something in the Water, the regional arena), but I just want to see this area reach the next level and stop being seen as an afterthought while I'm still young. Every time we try something new, the John Atkinsons and Kerry Doughertys cry foul with their NIMBY BS. I know I'm venting, but I'm just tired of Hampton Roads underachieving. 

Edited September 17, 2020 by BFG

[Norfolk757Kid 118]

13 hours ago, BFG said:

This isn't necessarily related to SPQ, but this is the one thing that bugs me about the status quo mindset of this area's leadership. No urgency, and every project takes at least three years to come to fruition. You already have to go out of your way to come here by jumping off 95, and driving an hour+ on 64. But yet, we don't offer much reason for someone to come here, at least no more than ATL or Charlotte. The civilian job salaries are way below average, public transit's a joke, and any promising idea is either pooh-poohed by the fuddy-duddies, or is very underwhelming.

I know Covid put a lot of potential things on hold (Something in the Water, the regional arena), but I just want to see this area reach the next level and stop being seen as an afterthought while I'm still young. Every time we try something new, the John Atkinsons and Kerry Doughertys cry foul with their NIMBY BS. I know I'm venting, but I'm just tired of Hampton Roads underachieving. 

Don't get me started about Kerry Doughtery haha

[urbanvb 174]

I found this story on Bloomberg. Typical negative news story. It’s a little interesting this story seems to be mostly written in February yet just published today. 
 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-09-22/how-norfolk-virginia-is-using-tax-breaks-to-demolish-black-neighborhoods?fbclid=IwAR1m3UG85irSGAQMOzA4iWPfAn_1zD4FMC5BtGf_TMXxdLNPcn8qNa6vL_Y

Edited September 22, 2020 by urbanvb

[BFG 1227]

An article from an organization whose founder ran a city that’s had nothing but gentrification the last couple decades. Ironic.