The skyline thread

[wfdude]

^ I thought it only lit up during the holidays? I could be mistaken.

However I think you bring up a good point. Why not keep the Wachovia Bldg lit up green throughout the whole year instead of only on the holidays? I think it sets a good standard for idea progress when other builders/businesses are looking to develop downtown Raleigh.

I live out that way cophead567, and everytime I look out over the road brigdes or my backyard...I cringe with disappointment.

[yankeeblue]

Ooo I gotcha now. I thought you meant like speciality colors "lit". Sorry its my Manhattan spoiled frame of mind coming into play.

[ChiefJoJo]

I saw Jones post in the Marriott thread about DTR, so it made me wonder how many cranes we'll see in the next 2 years simultaneously...

currently U/C: Parking garage, RCC, Bloomsbury, RBC, Marriott, 222 Glenwood, West@North

approved (cranes by mid-07): Reynolds, Nash, 630 North St, Boylan Flats (Tucker and Glen probably no cranes, but U/C this year)

planned (cranes by early 08?): Site 1, PE III, Lafayette

Did I miss any?

[DanRNC]

Hopefully Green Square.

[cophead567]

CAM, maybe? hopefully?

[Redman84]

I've been wondering about the BB&T Building not being lit recently as well. They went back to white lights bottom to top after the holidays and then one day the top wasn't lit. Looks odd now! I just wish they'd light it similar to the Empire State Building with different colors for different occasions. I've thought that all along and have made posts about it before. Be kinda neat to see it red/white/blue on US holidays like the 4th of July.

[wfdude]

haha finally somebody sees what i am talking about! i agree, it would be sweet to have it lit up different colors on different occasions like july 4th. either way, not having the top of the building lit up at all really takes away from the skyline at night. its hard to get a photo that truly represents our skyline at night...

[lma1973]

Raleigh's skyline is a complete JOKE for the population of the city. It should be more like Richmonds.......

[bj-26]

Raleigh's skyline is a complete JOKE for the population of the city. It should be more like Richmonds.......

[redjeep77]

Raleigh's skyline is a complete JOKE for the population of the city. It should be more like Richmonds.......

[Jones_]

Raleigh's skyline is a complete JOKE for the population of the city. It should be more like Richmonds.......

[Spatula]

I actually don't want to mimic Richmond. The density is great there, but the architecture always struck me as dull. It probably doesn't help that the city sort of topped out at 30 floors and stayed there. The latter seems to be a direction we're following too, but at least we're not getting gray boxes.

[wfdude]

Richmond has been larger than Raleigh for most of this Country's history and also has the densifying effect of being next to a river. The recent suburban growth pattern in Raleigh shows that there has neither been geographic or economic pressure to build tall in downtown until very recently.....

[DwnTwnRaleighGuy]

Ironically, Raleigh proper now beats out Richmond proper 359,332 to 193,777 and the Triangle metro beats the Richmond metro 1,509,560 to 1,175,654. Historically, a larger city, yes, but now significantly smaller than Raleigh or even the metro. Richmond has that nice dense skyline typical of an old large city, not a growing, new, southern city. We certainly do have some catching up to do!

[Spatula]

Richmond's CSA is the same as its MSA. That goes for all cities that do not have a distinct CSA. Interestingly, the Richmond MSA is larger in land area than Raleigh/Durham/Cary's CSA. Larger than Charlotte's more populous MSA, and very close to Atlanta's far more populous MSA too.

Personally, I would go by urban area populations, because counties are very arbitrary, and comparing cities that are integrated with counties and cities that are distinct from counties becomes messy. However, I don't have a good source for those statistics. Whoever does should put them on Wikipedia ASAP.

[wfdude]

This part is true, "Raleigh proper,(read city), now beats out Richmond proper 359,332 to 193,777". But this part, "Triangle metro beats the Richmond metro 1,509,560 to 1,175,654" is incorrect. Sorry!

The Raleigh Consolidated Metro Area is 1,509,560.

Richmond itself doesn't have a Consolidated Metro Area.

So to be fair the Richmond MSA is 1,175,654

and the Raleigh MSA is 949,681

Sorry about that!

[ChiefJoJo]

Let's stick to the topic at hand please... skylines of the Triangle. Thanks.

[Jones_]

I beg your pardon, but I think its fairly obvious that the Raleigh Consolidated Metro area is what counts... you cannot logically separate the Durham / Chapel Hill from the Raleigh / Cary metro areas, no matter what the census says. We are all one region, and our population numbers obviously reflect that. As stated by spatula, it is fair to compare the Raleigh Consolidated Metro area to the Richmond MSA, and clearly, we are larger!

[willrusso]

DwntwnRaleighGuy infers that Raleigh's skyline has suffered because the CSA population is spread around multiple city centers. Comparing the two MSA's probably is a better yardstick regarding part of the equation for what to expect for the respective skylines of Raleigh and Richmond...the other part of the equation I mentioned is geography and the historical buildout periods.

[Jones_]

Even if that is the case and you want to go by MSA numbers. The Raleigh/Cary MSA will pass Richmond's in about 3 or 4 years anyways. Wake County alone added 160,000 people in 6 years between 2000 and 2006.

[bj-26]

It also helps to have money and people interested in spending it to build tall buildings. Hugh McCall at NCNB is a perfect example. Where would Charlotte be today had NCNB and First Union not starting building tall buildings in Charlotte back in the 80s? If I recall, Charlotte's skyline was behind Richmond back then, but I don't think you can say that now.

Richmond had its growth spurt back in the 70s and 80s. But from what I read recently, the new Centenial Tower is the only tower 20+ stories planned there since the early 90s. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I love Richmond's skyline, but it may be Raleigh's time now. And with all the 15-30+ buildings in the works, I don't think anyone will be calling Raleigh's skyline a joke for long.

[Cary NC]

.....I am not disputing that at all......thats all fine and good.....nobody seems to get why Richmond's skyline is denser and its downtown more compact than Raleigh's....people want to know why Raleigh does not have a skyline befitting its population.....well, at the moment, compared to Richmond anyway, just looking at numbers we are about where we should be, if you can quantify 'skylineness' somehow....in three to four years what will our skyline look like....if you have 4, 30+ story towers (RBC, Reynolds, 2 at PE III) then maybe both our MSA and 'skylineness' will pass Richmond's at the same time......in the meantime looking at just numbers is not a reason to think Raleigh's skyline should be more than the "joke" people think it is. Current growth patterns and styles, don't earn you a good skyline until say 400k people, 30-40 years ago, maybe it only took 200k if you had a geographic bookend. Greensboro had no such river or coast and hence does not have a remarkable skyline for example(I love Greensboro btw triad folks ). Neither does Raleigh, so with Interstates proliferating, the need to go tall does not arise until you reach some magical radius of commute time by car, or some other economic catalyst is reached, that may or may not be tied to population directly.......so a recap; three things (at least) affect your skyline, population(relevant and comaprable number if your gonna compare skylines), historical population(when was your city's big growth spurt?) and geography. Any others? Dominant political atmosphere maybe?

[wfdude]

.....I am not disputing that at all......thats all fine and good.....nobody seems to get why Richmond's skyline is denser and its downtown more compact than Raleigh's....people want to know why Raleigh does not have a skyline befitting its population.....well, at the moment, compared to Richmond anyway, just looking at numbers we are about where we should be, if you can quantify 'skylineness' somehow....in three to four years what will our skyline look like....if you have 4, 30+ story towers (RBC, Reynolds, 2 at PE III) then maybe both our MSA and 'skylineness' will pass Richmond's at the same time......in the meantime looking at just numbers is not a reason to think Raleigh's skyline should be more than the "joke" people think it is. Current growth patterns and styles, don't earn you a good skyline until say 400k people, 30-40 years ago, maybe it only took 200k if you had a geographic bookend. Greensboro had no such river or coast and hence does not have a remarkable skyline for example(I love Greensboro btw triad folks ). Neither does Raleigh, so with Interstates proliferating, the need to go tall does not arise until you reach some magical radius of commute time by car, or some other economic catalyst is reached, that may or may not be tied to population directly.......so a recap; three things (at least) affect your skyline, population(relevant and comaprable number if your gonna compare skylines), historical population(when was your city's big growth spurt?) and geography. Any others? Dominant political atmosphere maybe?

[Jones_]

Actually, if anyone had fully read my first statement: "Historically, a larger city, yes, but now significantly smaller than Raleigh or even the metro. Richmond has that nice dense skyline typical of an old large city, not a growing, new, southern city." you may see that I noted how Richmond was historically a much larger city than its numbers would now reflect, hence the much denser and larger skyline. My followup was in defense of numbers that are indisputable. Raleigh being a "growing, new, southern city" (in other words, over half of its population in the last 20 years) points to why our skyline has not yet caught up.

[Spatula]

I got that part....I think there is no irony at this point though as you stated....using the CSA for us which encompasses multiple city centers is not an apples to apples comparision when it comes to what to expect out of a skyline