Lake Norman Urbanization and Projects

[NCN8ive]

I wonder how the residents of Oakhrust will take to the nearly 1 million square feet of retail coming up across the street.

I have a friend who lives there and he can't wait. Of course, he's happy because it will be a very short drive (he doesn't believe in walking). I'll have to see if he has talked to anyone else. I know if I lived there I'd be really excited. It will do to property values in Oakhurst what Birkedale Village has done for the Greens @ Birkdale Village.

[eastsider]

The developer of this place said the stores here would be "very upscale" to use his terminology. Circuit city nor Best Buy would seem to fit that category.

Why is it that what developers say is suddenly believable?

[monsoon]

Why is it that what developers say is suddenly believable?

At this point, that is all that we have to go on. However I can't say that I have ever seen Best Buy or Circuit City in this area located in a new urbanist style development such as Birkdale Village which also seems to be the prototype for this area. I can almost guarantee the Cornelius town council will not approve something less than that for this area. They already have two failed examples on their hands and I can see where they would not want another. Kenton Place and the HT development at the Pennisula are the examples. Developers most likely don't want to build another place like those places either. Birkdale Village killed both of them, and they would rather copy success.

In regards to an electronics store there is a Sharper Image at BV so I would think it would be something on these lines.

It should be noted that estimates place the population of Huntersville, Cornelius and Davidson around 65,000 people and for the most part this is a fairly affluent set of communities so I do think there is room for duplication with some of the stores at SouthPark or stores that don't even exist there.

[rjp212]

I was thinking it could be a Sony Store.

They seem to be located in upscale shopping areas such as Lennox Square and the Fashion Center at Pentagon City, those also being the closest store locations.

Sony Style

[JerseyBoy]

In regards to an electronics store there is a Sharper Image at BV so I would think it would be something on these lines.

It should be noted that estimates place the population of Huntersville, Cornelius and Davidson around 65,000 people and for the most part this is a fairly affluent set of communities so I do think there is room for duplication with some of the stores at SouthPark or stores that don't even exist there.

Bang & Olufsen.......

Edited February 26, 2007 by DaAchiever

[DigitalSky]

Bang & Olufsen.......

Didn't even think of that one!!

[StevenRocks]

Taubman is the Rolls-Royce of mall owners; it has had a few misses (Columbus City Center, Shops at Willow Bend and a few others) but it runs a stable of impressive luxury malls. I don't see it failing.

Taubman does have some nice malls, but even their most productive centers are starting to look a little dated, and they've been unable to gain momentum with newer styles of shopping.

The developer of this place said the stores here would be "very upscale" to use his terminology. Circuit city nor Best Buy would seem to fit that category.

Fair enough, but there's not a lot of upscale electronic stores around. Then again, it doesn't have to be an electronics store at all.

Bang & Olufsen.......

Doubtful. They lasted about 5 minutes at Phillips Place a few years ago. Can't see them coming back this soon.

[JerseyBoy]

Doubtful. They lasted about 5 minutes at Phillips Place a few years ago. Can't see them coming back this soon.

Oh...I never knew they has a previous store in Charlotte?

[StevenRocks]

Oh...I never knew they has a previous store in Charlotte?

Phillips Place cycled through a lot of smaller boutiques before it found its niche.

[ChiefJoJo]

There's a very good chance this project will be stalled. Stay tuned...

[monsoon]

Apparently it is too late this year to place an application to have a freeway exit constructed at this road.

[ChiefJoJo]

It's going to be around 18-24 months before any approvals will be likely to happen--and that's assuming Cornelius would even approve the rezoning AND the proposed TIF, which would cover the financing for the interchange.

It seems like a terrible idea to me. You already have exit 25 and 28 basically jammed up, I-77 jammed up S to 485 and N past the Iredell line with no improvements scheduled in sight... who in their right mind thinks shoe-horning a new "mall" at a new exit 27 and plopping down 1M sf of retail, etc would be a good idea? Oh, and even if they wanted to chase the new revenues... due to the proposed TIF, the town would get a fraction of the taxes from the development.

[JCB]

I live in Birkdale Village and I think that this project has the potential to be either awesome or terrible. If it incorporated commercial space and forced the cities of Huntersville and Cornelius to open connecting roads then it might be a great thing. If it had some commercial space then people could truly work, live, and play between the villages and the lake. As it is now most people I know commute towards Charlotte. If it forces the local towns to get serious about fixing the road situation then we will be better off. The three town communities really will experience a Tragedy of the Commons. Every sub-division/development wants its own little cul-de-sac. This mentality forces congestion on the main roads - Sam Furr, Gilead, 21, 115, and Catawba. Did I miss any? I don't think so. Wow, only 5 thorough fares for an area that is expected to number over 100,000 people in a decade or two! Worse still is that since the towns force so few developments to create congestion alleviating short-cuts, the first development to do so will likely be overwhelmd. Everyone knows this so they fight all the more to not have the through connections. Has anyone ever tried to get around the DC area where there are just a few main roads and each has about 12 lanes!

Here are some examples of easy connections that could be made: 1) A loop around the Sam Furr/High 21 mess that arcs around behind Target and the new Petco development and continues around behind the library. 2) Continue Northcross through to Westmoreland so that everyone does not have to go through 77/21 to get North of Exit 25.

Just some thoughts on the whole super dense development thing around Exit 25.

[MZT]

In many ways, Huntersville is Mecklenburg's answer to Wake county's "Cary". The tighter zoning control, building permits, bedroom community atmosphere.

But -- not in roadbuilding and traffic design. Cary was serious, and made sure to get it's roads to loop and arc through the city too, and not just into/outof.

[JCB]

In many ways, Huntersville is Mecklenburg's answer to Wake county's "Cary". The tighter zoning control, building permits, bedroom community atmosphere.

But -- not in roadbuilding and traffic design. Cary was serious, and made sure to get it's roads to loop and arc through the city too, and not just into/outof.

I just Googled Cary, NC and I see the ring road concept. I have traveled extensively with my job and I like the concentric ring concept. My favorite place for roads like that is Irvine, Ca with its broad tree lined blvds.

[ChiefJoJo]

In many ways, Huntersville is Mecklenburg's answer to Wake county's "Cary". The tighter zoning control, building permits, bedroom community atmosphere.

But -- not in roadbuilding and traffic design. Cary was serious, and made sure to get it's roads to loop and arc through the city too, and not just into/outof.

Cary may have a decent road loop system with Maynard and Cary Pkwy, but it also served to encourage *plenty* of suburban sprawl (albeit, the cleanest and most well-manicured of it's kind)... so I wouldn't necessarily agree with the tighter zoning. Maybe in terms of restrictions, but few efforts to promote mixed-use or dense urban developments built around the TTA stop in downtown. Also, Huntersville has been somewhat ahead of the curve in land use planning and now has a real shot at building TODs along the north corridor. Cary would only be so lucky.

[JCB]

I know that the three towns - Huntersville, Cornelius, and Davidson - are trying hard to master plan but I think the pace of development may overwhelm their best intents. Does anyone know if the towns or either Huntersville or Cornelius have plans to create a Greenway along Caldwell Creek? I had asked the Mecklenburg County Greenway planner, Jason Pauling. He wrote that the County is not planning it but he thought one of the towns might be. Cladwell CReek runs East West and could be a biking/walking path from Birkdale/NorthCross/Village at Lake Norman to the Light Rail. The major challenge/cost would be crossing 77. I was just curious if anyone has heard of this?

[monsoon]

There are two potential places for the Huntersville greenways to jump I-77. The first is Torrence Creek Greenway (behind Rosedale) and the other is Upper McDowell Creek Greenway (will start construction this summer and run from Birkdale to the proposed Village at Lake Norman). I was told by the city planner that neither the city nor the county will attempt to jump the highway until the state widens I-77 some time in the next 20+ years. Most likely it would be a tunnel but in anycase, it's too expensive to do as it's own project at this time. I do think a greenway pedestrian bridge such as that which crosses the beltline in Raleigh would be nice.

In the meantime, they will eventually connect Upper McDowell Creek Greenway with Torrence Creek Greenway, which will allow travel from Bailey School Rd. down to exit 23 and west to Beatties Fd Rd. That is a good bit of coverage that includes schools, businesses, 4-5 major shopping centers and maybe 10,000 or more residences. It will be a nice alternative to the automobile in this area.

[rjp212]

The developers are now saying that they will not build this project if the new exit is not built. They somehow believe that adding another exit to the Lake Norman area will improve traffic flow.

[monsoon]

The developers are now saying that they will not build this project if the new exit is not built. They somehow believe that adding another exit to the Lake Norman area will improve traffic flow.

Isn't this exit already under construction?

[atlrvr]

Well, a new exist would give direct interstate access to this project....as it is now, a driver would have to dirve a little over a mile in already horrific traffic to make to the site.....oh well, there goes the only east-west road that wasn't a completed nightmare.

[rjp212]

Isn't this exit already under construction?

No this exit would be Exit 27. The exit currently under construction is Exit 32 in Iredell and that's for Langtree at the Lake and Lowe's Corporate. So this would mean the Lake would have Exits 25, 26, 28, 30, 32, 33, 36, 42, 45. Also coming soon would be Exits 35 (Brawley School Road) and Exit 37 (Cornelius Road). There proposal does include widening of Hwy 21 and a new flyover bridge south of Westmoreland which would replace the lost east-west connector.

The developer of Village at Lake Norman said they looked at adding a lane to 77 but that proved to be too expensive.

Edited June 28, 2007 by rjp212

[Dennis_Schwartz]

Don't forget construction on Exit 35 (Brawley) and 37/38 (Cornelius Rd) are suppose to begin in the next decade or so.

Where did you find the site plan, uptownliving?

When you say the next decade or so ... lets remember that we shoudl really say is: "The decade or so IF, and only if, the morons in Raleigh don't prioritize something else, like 485's 4 lanes in South Charlotte 485/77"

[rjp212]

When you say the next decade or so ... lets remember that we shoudl really say is: "The decade or so IF, and only if, the morons in Raleigh don't prioritize something else, like 485's 4 lanes in South Charlotte 485/77"

Exit 35 is suppose to start construction in 2009 I believe. It's part of the Brawley widening process.

Edited June 28, 2007 by rjp212

[monsoon]

No this exit would be Exit 27. The exit currently under construction is Exit 32 in Iredell and that's for Langtree at the Lake and Lowe's Corporate. So this would mean the Lake would have Exits 25, 26, 28, 30, 32, 33, 36, 42, 45. Also coming soon would be Exits 35 (Brawley School Road) and Exit 37 (Cornelius Road). There proposal does include widening of Hwy 21 and a new flyover bridge south of Westmoreland which would replace the lost east-west connector.

The developer of Village at Lake Norman said they looked at adding a lane to 77 but that proved to be too expensive.

You are correct. I got it mixed up with Exit 32. I will be surprised if they build exit 27 only because I think it will scare the local population of Cornelius who don't want another exit 25 in the area. Really what ought to happen is for the developer pay in to the proposal to rebuild exit 25 so that local traffic is separated from through traffic on Hwy 73 and then four lane Hwy 21 down to Westmoreland.