Urban development in Cary?

[Jones_]

Cary could stand some nicer retail, but I can't see it coming to this development for some reason. CBL will be pushing hard to get it at Cary Towne Center.

I have a feeling Cary Towne Center may end up getting a North Hills Style makeover at some point. It is already surrounded by some complimentary style development like Barnes & Noble and Galaxy Cinema. When the Western Blvd extension gets built to Cary Towne Blvd access will be better via automobile, and surprising to me something about that area almost feels walkable..maybe some denser housing nearby (again ala North Hills) would be ideal too. The High School is close by and that clear-cut feel is long since gone as most of the trees have grown big in the area...fire station nearby....would have a nice little village feel actually with some condos thrown in and CTC done like NH...

[ChiefJoJo]

I might be hijacking this topic a little but it's related...

Here's an aerial (2.8MB pdf) of the area in the article showing the US1/64 & Walnut St improvements overlayed. The developer owns the property inside the large ramp loop.

Oh, and there's a cool rendering of the new pedestrian bridge over the new US 1/64 here:

[Tayfromcarolina]

Sure looks like an interstate dosent it.

[ChiefJoJo]

It essentially is--well, a freeway, at least. If you notice, it looks like they'll be getting lights too, so everyone who's been howling about no lights can ease up a little.

[thewhister]

Interesting to read that these places are labeled as "Lifestyle Centers" It does not conjure up any meaning for me. you would think that it would be called a Neighborhood Center - more like the existing strip centers that we have.

They are in a concentrated central area in part of the city. As current development has, it is normally at major cross streets. Seems like there would be redevelopment opportunities at theses places and densification takes place. Just like Falls Village in Raleigh on Falls of the Neuse Road. They keep adding Shops and lured Books-a-Million away from the one strip center down the road. And there are plans for Townhouses/Condos in the back of the center - I will see if I can get some info on that project.

[thewhister]

Interesting to read that these places are labeled as "Lifestyle Centers" It does not conjure up any meaning for me. you would think that it would be called a Neighborhood Center - more like the existing strip centers that we have.

They are in a concentrated central area in part of the city. As current development has, it is normally at major cross streets. Seems like there would be redevelopment opportunities at theses places and densification takes place. Just like Falls Village in Raleigh on Falls of the Neuse Road. They keep adding Shops and lured Books-a-Million away from the one strip center down the road. And there are plans for Townhouses/Condos in the back of the center - I will see if I can get some info on that project.

Here it is:

http://www.fallsvillagetownhomes.com/

[avery]

This is a good idea, but that area is so much of a mess already. Crossroads is very poorly planned in my opinion and I don't see them being able to completely reverse this area's dependence on the automobile.

[Tayfromcarolina]

I just have one question? What is that monstrosity that is being built across from the former Copelands/soon to be Red Robins and Jack Astors across Walnut Street. It is huge. Myself and some of my co-workers were trying to figure out what it was, and we are clueless.

Any ideas?

[thewhister]

I just have one question? What is that monstrosity that is being built across from the former Copelands/soon to be Red Robins and Jack Astors across Walnut Street. It is huge. Myself and some of my co-workers were trying to figure out what it was, and we are clueless.

Any ideas?

I have been wondering that myself. And the most shocking that this monstrosity faces the street!

Unbelievable and in Cary no less! Pinch me this cannot be happening

[carynative]

A developer is planning to redevelop Waverly Place, the sprawling futuristic-looking strip mall at Tryon Road and Kildare Farm Road in Cary across from WakeMed Cary. It's the only mall I know of the Triangle with outdoor escalators (random info.) What thoughts do you have on this concept? Here is the WRAL article

[orulz]

Traffic down there really is awful. The two-lane bottleneck of Tryon Road east of Kildaire makes the area impassable for hours every day. Tryon is being widened east of Piney Plains but between Kildaire and P.P. it's not even under construction yet. This area is sure to be a traffic headache for years to come.

Wonder how such a large "node" of activity ended up at this intersection. Probably Cary's very laissez-faire model of city planning ("If a developer proposes it, and they have money, then let's approve it"). I fully expect this new development to be approved as well, and it will bring enough traffic to overwhelm even the newly widened Tryon Road.

[DigitalSky]

My friend was showing me pics of Waverly Place, it looked too cool for school... and now they're planning a bland generic looking thing there?

"If a developer proposes it, and they have money, then let's approve it"

Sounds like parts of Charlotte.

[rooster8]

My wife used to hang out there when she first moved to NC. I believe she said it used to have a theater that closed years ago.

[carynative]

yes. it sure did. Waverly used to have a theatre, but it closed way before Crossroads opened. that space became a gym, which also closed. It also had a chi-chis, but alas that closed too. There was a realy nice 2-story restaurant, which was wonderful, then it (well you guessed it) closed. Seems to be a pattern there.

[JTsaysToYou]

I live like right there, and yeah, it used ot e amovie theater, then a gym, then a chi-chis (which was two stories) and then it turned into a gym again and now i think its vacant. My mom said that Waverly place won a buncha awards when it was first built and that it used ot be a really snazzy place. I'm gonna miss it, i mean i half grew up there.

[DigitalSky]

http://msweb01.co.wake.nc.us/realestate/Ph...;pin=0762630729

Pics of the place. Courtesy Wake County

[rooster8]

You can actually see the evolution from theater to gym to gym. Too bad some of the current second story spaces couldn't be retrofitted for residential purposes. As far as suburban shopping centers go, it's a nice place. I think it's problem is that it is too sprawling and people aren't/weren't willing to walk all around it. Today's society likes to park right in front of the door and it is hard to do that here.

[Cary NC]

I posted on another forum of the idea of another old shopping center that could use the same redevelopment idea. I thought of Cary Village square and South Hills. Both of these two areas have large tracts of acreage that could provide a great opporunities to bring some density to an old part of Cary.

Cary Village Square

It is right across the street from Cary Towne Center and Cary High. It crosses over to the other side of Cary Towne Blvd. It is in walking distance to Cary High School, Henry Adams Elementary, and East Cary Middle. It has banks nearby or on the property currently. It has a grocry store, Harris Teeter. It has some fast food resturants as well. It has 2 office buildings already on site that could be replaced with modern buildings. It is owned by York Properties and I just wonder why Smedes York has taken the opportunity to bring something that has all the amenities there and bring density to it.It is owned by York Properties. What are your thoughts of bringing housing, retail, and office space to this area in a mixed use way. Maybe 3 or four 7 story office buildings there. A sky bridge over Cary Towne Blvd by the Mcdonalds. The Nimbys are almost none existance there because of the adjacent properties are commerical in nature.

South Hills Mall

This area could properly do less commercial and more housing/office options. The commercial part is pretty much taken care of with Crossroads. However it can incorporate a 10 story hotel to replace the old 4 story one already onsite. It has great freeway access so office space/conference center would be good with this hotel. Tear down all the buildings and bring Borders over to the center as well as open a smaller but definitely needed grocery store. CCB bank is there and so a couple more banks wouldn't hurt.

I think these two centers could create some quality density to the area.

I know the area is heavily congested. I grew up there beside Cary Towne center. To solve this problem. I would create a designated Trolley line From Crossroads to CTC. The town of cary already has it proposed in the short term future to widen walnut to 3 lanes each way with a turn lane equaling a total of 7 lanes. Why not make the extra lane each way a trolley line. Then people would park at one shopping center and ride the trolley to the other. Those that live in these areas would then have more options of shopping and so forth. Maybe this would cut down on some of the traffic. The properties facing walnut are proposed to be commercial properties, how about mixed use in some cases. 3 or 4 story tall buildings with stops for the trolley line along the way.

I am up for your thoughts about this potential.

[carynative]

I know the area is heavily congested. I grew up there beside Cary Towne center. To solve this problem. I would create a designated Trolley line From Crossroads to CTC. The town of cary already has it proposed in the short term future to widen walnut to 3 lanes each way with a turn lane equaling a total of 7 lanes. Why not make the extra lane each way a trolley line. Then people would park at one shopping center and ride the trolley to the other. Those that live in these areas would then have more options of shopping and so forth. Maybe this would cut down on some of the traffic. The properties facing walnut are proposed to be commercial properties, how about mixed use in some cases. 3 or 4 story tall buildings with stops for the trolley line along the way.

I am up for your thoughts about this potential.

I don't know if they'd think about a Trolley line since the C-Tran busses go on that route already. I'm all in favor of redeveloping both South Hills and the Cary Village Square areas. You may have some NIMBYs on the Cary Towne Blvd part of Cary Village Square since it backs up to an older established neighborhood, but there is a large tree buffer there already.

[ncwebguy]

To me, Waverly Place screams "this is the future than never came" which is kinda sad.

Does anyone know why it failed? I know the HT moving across the street next to the Wal-Mart didn't help, but I though Wellspring/Whole Foods would help soften that blow. Did no other "organic" stores move in nearby, like Ridgewood in West Raleigh or Eastgate in Chapel Hill?

I saw a movie there once about a year or two before the theater closed, but know that space would be hard to reuse as anything else once Crossroads, and later Bever Creek movie theaters opend. With the deographics in that area, it could have supported an independent theater, but with Galaxy so close, that would be difficult as well.

Did the ring of fast food and banks on the perimiter scare people away from the shops in the heart of the complex? Was it ever marketed as a shopping destination? The "new" North Hills' escalators reminded me of Waverly Place's, but NH's hides the parking while Waverly place just went from one set of (mostly empty) store fronts to another.

South Hills could be rennovated, but recent history suggests they don't want to. They seem to be happy with their lack of density -- the CCB/Sun Trust, Kerr Drugs (former Mall tenant), K&S Cafeteria, etc. are islands in the sea of mostly empty parking. This development continues on the other side of Buck Jones, with Jellybeans, Bullwinkles, Rey's, etc. The topography on the west side makes that development reasonable, but the flat east side has no excuse. Why are the hotels at US 1 and Walnut all low end? Red Roof Inn and Motel 6 are even owned by the same company.

Cary Village is another victim of too much spread out. It looks like they tried to replicate Cameron Village, but couldn't draw tenants there instead of Cary Town Center. It would feel a lot more urban if Mac's Tavern was closer to the Galaxy, maybe in the building with the Imp Grille near the theater and office building. When Winn Dixie (and later Magnolia Marketplace) pulled out, they had a chance to do some infill, but chose to "stay the course" instead.

Even CTC eventually saw the benefits of infill (sort of), replacing the Pizza Inn and Wachovia with the Jared's, Starbucks and Pei Wei.

I don't think a trolley would work for the Walnut Street corridor because there is little to no residential density along it. 90% + of the traffic there comes from outside the area. The lack of density in place "forces" people to get in their car to go to the grocery store. The multiple closings of stores at the Borders shopping center -- remember Kinetixs? in additon to Hannafords, the golf store, and Lowes' Food -- says the market does not want to get anything there other than books and coffee. How many people would park in either CTC, South Hills, or Crossroads and then wait for a trolley vs. getting in their car and going on their next destination on their own schedule?

[NCMike1981]

Harris Teeter was in Waverly Place before moving across the street beside Wal-Mart around '95, Whole Foods is in the old HT place I believe. I'm suprised Eckerds is still in the shopping center instead of freestanding at an intersection somewhere.

[avery]

I've always like this shopping center and wished it would have done better. The problem is the traffic. There are only two ways out of that center. You either have to take a right onto Tryon or the light near Whole Foods. The signaled intersection is difficult because you have to compete with Harris Teeter and Wal-Mart traffic across the street.

[carynative]

I've always like this shopping center and wished it would have done better. The problem is the traffic. There are only two ways out of that center. You either have to take a right onto Tryon or the light near Whole Foods. The signaled intersection is difficult because you have to compete with Harris Teeter and Wal-Mart traffic across the street.

Until you said, it, I didn't realize that this was one of my problems with that development. I'm hoping that the developers will work with Cary to alleviate this. My doctor's office is located behind Waverly and we have to use those same entrances and exits. It's very tough, especially at lunctime and satrudays.

[Subway Scoundrel]

There use to be a sub-conscience there years ago. I think the idea that a patron actually has to walk and can not park in the no-parking zone right at the front door is why this place has stuggled

That is why the SC where Harris Teeter has been succesful. You can fit a big SUV near the front door that everyone can see.

[urbanvb]

Developers are building 1.7 million square feet of offices across the region. But Cary has not caught the building bug. There weren't any leasable offices under construction in Cary at the end of September, according to Highwoods. And only 60,000 square feet have been built in the town since 2004.

That's bound to change. Half of the Triangle's 2 million square feet of proposed offices are planned in Cary. And recent deals could nudge those proposals out of the pipeline and out of the ground.

New and expanding companies have caused the Triangle's office vacancy rate to drop to 13.2 percent from 16 percent two years ago.

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