NC: No Longer a Southern State?

[krazeeboi]

When looking at voting patterns, I think you also have to take into account large African American populations within those counties, which tend to vote Democrat but are by and large socially conservative. For instance, my home county in SC, Orangeburg County, is 61% Black and 66% of the population voted for Kerry in 2004; however, 76% of the county population also voted in favor of the same-sex marriage amendment this month.

[urbanvb]

When looking at voting patterns, I think you also have to take into account large African American populations within those counties, which tend to vote Democrat but are by and large socially conservative.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Of course, ethnicity and race are major factors in political identity. But the same can be said of anywhere. Yet, for some areas, it is more than race at play. Have Orange and Durham County become so much "blacker" that it explains the Democratic gains from 2000 to 2004? The same with Mecklenburg County, or Fairfax County, or Loudoun County. Of course, the growing Asian and Hispanic populations complicate the explanation, but I think that even amongst overwhelmingly White precincts, you will find that the trend is toward bluer voter patterns in big city and college counties.

[krazeeboi]

Well, a growing Black population could be part of the explanation. However, I will say that my point about counties with large Black populations, with blue voting patterns, that are still relatively conservative apply moreso to less urban/rural counties (like my native county that has a population less than 100K and not really growing at all) than more urban counties.

[monsoon]

North Carolina went 56% Bush/44% Kerry, so overall more conservative of a state at that time. ......

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Any stats on the growth of Mecklenburg, Orange, Durham, and Guilford's black population?

[DCMetroRaleigh]

I continue to be amazed that people want to make statements such as this. This is certainly no measure of whether a state is conservative, liberal or whatever. Kerry had as many issues for many moderates as Bush, failed to explain why he would be a better choice, and frankly was probably the worst candidate the Democrats could have chosen for the time. I said the day they nominated him the clueless democrats just lost.

[Pillsbury]

^ I agree with you, but have a question. In my state, the Democratic Party ran the show since Reconstruction, both houses, and both U.S. Senators were Democrats, as well as our Governor. This was uniform power. In 1992, we voted for Clinton---we have not voted for a Democrat President since.

What of our recent voting? In 2003, the Republicans took over the state. The balance of power has shifted, and Georgia is redder now than it was two years ago. What of that and how does it compare/differ from North Carolina?

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Georgia continues to get redder, whereas NC moves gradually toward being purple. I have to study GA more, but it seems the state is more conservative than NC. The NC legislature is strongly Democrat in both chambers. NC has a Democrat Governor, Lt. Governor, and Attorney General. I think Republicans hold all these offices in GA. NC will have a majority Democratic US Congress delegation in January. I think GA has a majority US Congress delegation. However, both GA and NC's US Senators are Republican, although Edwards was elected in 1998 as a Dem. GA is more Deep South in its voting patterns outside of the city of Atlanta and DeKalb. I am not so certain why ATL metro has not moderated Georgia's politics.

[monsoon]

Moreover, now more than ever, how a state votes in federal elections is indicative of its political and cultural orientation. From the 70's until now, the South underwent a major political realignment from the old Democrat party to the Republican party that was fueled by the South's reaction to the Democrats' embrace of social and cultural liberalism. ....

[DCMetroRaleigh]

I completely disagree. You are not talking about that big a difference between the people who voted for one versus the other. It is folly to look at that and make declarations on how liberal or conservative a place may be.

[nowensone]

^ I can't agree with the statement that there is a growing cultural chasm between the regions of this country. The extremist religious/ultra-conservative bent of the GOP is not some southern phenomenon, nor is indicative of some widening gulf, it is a few very screwed up people with power, and it was recently proven that people, southern as well, do not like the direction these few are taking. In our modern society there are too many factors that work to homogenize the citizens of this country [and world] and shrink regional chasms, some of which we have been talking about here like mass immigration/relocation, but also television, education, the internet, the automobile and airplane, etc.

To tie back into this thread's main theme, and some of your earlier posts, many NC natives even do not identify with this Southern branding because they have grown up exposed to things from all over the world and country and so don't quite get the sometimes annoying "South tried and true, 100%" crap, because they are worldly and not the nearly fictitious redneck in an old Chevy with a Confederate flag, sweat tea in hand and a Tara sized drawl. The homogenizing is happening all over the country, the only way I see a chasm deepening is if transportation/communication networks break down for some reason (such as the oil supply drying up or major war resulting in destruction of infrastructure).

[MR-2]

When looking at voting patterns, I think you also have to take into account large African American populations within those counties, which tend to vote Democrat but are by and large socially conservative.

[krazeeboi]

I'm still not sure if we're taking this conventional wisdom for granted. Don't forget the ties blacks and minorities have to the civil rights movement. I think they would be, overall, more socially liberal than expected.

[Durhamite]

What in the world are y'all (southern) talking about? Who voted for who and .....whatever. NC is southern as they come in certain areas! For years, the great Southern divide in speech occurs on Hwy-29, just north of Lynchburg in Virginia and on I-95, somewhere in between South Hill and Petersburg (as Terry Bradshaw once said, where the name Harold becomes Hurrold). Depends on where you are in VA/MD in particular on culture and southerness. Central VA (+ Hampton Roads) and MD are mostly Mid-Atlantic in a cultural sense.

Now, the Triangle is definitely an anomaly. Mid-Atlantic/NE (+ you name it) surrounded by a sea of southerness due to a HUGE influx of people from everywhere. Overall, the music that I listen to (R&B & HipHop), NC is somewhat more Mid-Atlantic/NE than Southern, especially in the Triangle and the Triad. The Southern rap scene has captured the national market but the difference in music taste starts changing slightly around the Triad area (going northward) in regards to radio style/play (although the ATL sound has a lock down on music). Just recently, I've noticed Atlanta's radio stations being more diverse, but definitely Southern.

I think that's what makes NC artist confused in the sense of creating a unique sound...they're caught in between.

Culturally, NC is Southern with a strong Mid-Atlantic influence. Is the culture changing? Yes, to what extent, it's yet to be seen...as goes for Southern VA (excluding Hampton Roads). The urban areas of NC are definitely a mixture of Southern and Mid-Atlantic.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Krazeeboi, actually you're incorrec that there are very few black liberals of national prominence. WHile liberal is subjective, we do know there are hardly any Black elected officials of state or national prominence out there. The number of elected black conservatives will be even thinner come January. The only prominent black conservatives out there today are pretty much propped up by Fox News and other rightwing media just to deflect the usual observation that you could fit every Black Republican into a phone booth, with room to spare.

Yeah, there are Blacks who are homophobic and don't see gay rights in terms of civil rights, but that hasn't stopped the gay community from overwhelming electing pro-gay politicians to represent them. For example, the Congressional Black Caucus votes strongly socially progressive and have been the most solid supporters of gay rights, whether you are talking about Mel Watt, Elijah Cummings, or Shelia Jackson-Lee. Obama is a pro-choice, pro-gay rights progressive. The new mayor of DC, Adrian Fenty, is a fervent gay marriage supporter. So is new Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick, who ran on one of the most pro-gay marriage platforms any gubernatorial candidate has run on. NAACP leader Julian Bond is a fervant gay marriage supporter, and refused to appear on a platform with George Bush because of GWB's opposition to gay marriage. The NAACP chair says

[krazeeboi]

Now I know that we have some, and while some of the ones you mentioned are politicians on a national level, they're not really prominent on that level (such as Massachussetts's newly elected governor and DC's newly elected mayor). Secondly, the vast majority of the politicians you cited, while they support gay rights, they don't seem to be very vocal about it; they are significantly more concerned about the social equality of Blacks moreso than any other group. Thirdly, I could name several other prominent Black figures that, at the least, have not come out publically in favor of gay rights (mostly religious figures, which still play a prominent role in Black America): Jesse Jackson; Rev. Walter Fauntroy; Martin and Coretta King's daughter, Bernice King; Louis Farrakhan; Clarence Thomas; Harold Ford, Jr. (as you mentioned); Rev. Fred Shuttlesworth; Bishop T.D. Jakes; Colin Powell; etc. Even many who do say they are in favor of gay rights or gay marriage do not wish to say that it is a civil rights issue, as to be equated with the movement of the 60's. So I would say that there may be more Black liberals now than ever before, but I would still say that they are relatively few in number. And if we were talking about some of the lesser-known Black leaders (either nationally or regionally), the number of liberal REALLY begins to dwindle significantly.

[Pillsbury]

Georgia continues to get redder, whereas NC moves gradually toward being purple. I have to study GA more, but it seems the state is more conservative than NC. The NC legislature is strongly Democrat in both chambers. NC has a Democrat Governor, Lt. Governor, and Attorney General. I think Republicans hold all these offices in GA. NC will have a majority Democratic US Congress delegation in January. I think GA has a majority US Congress delegation. However, both GA and NC's US Senators are Republican, although Edwards was elected in 1998 as a Dem. GA is more Deep South in its voting patterns outside of the city of Atlanta and DeKalb. I am not so certain why ATL metro has not moderated Georgia's politics.

[lupitachica]

Now I know that we have some, and while some of the ones you mentioned are politicians on a national level, they're not really prominent on that level (such as Massachussetts's newly elected governor and DC's newly elected mayor). Secondly, the vast majority of the politicians you cited, while they support gay rights, they don't seem to be very vocal about it; they are significantly more concerned about the social equality of Blacks moreso than any other group.

[DCMetroRaleigh]

My point is that the events that create these political storms in states are often different for each state. I'm using my state as an example because I'm familiar with the politics. Our growth rate is comparable to North Carolina (as is pretty much everything else). Yes Rebublicans hold these offices, now. But before 2002, it was a complete Democratic stronghold. This was a good decade after every other Southern state had given in to the Southern strategy of the GOP.

My point is, that different states have revolutions at different times. Obviously, North Carolina is a progressive state. But I doubt it's more progressive as a whole than Georgia or Florida. It may be more Democratic right now, but that could change. Waves come at different times. While the Republican wave swept the nation twelve years ago, Georgia remained staunchly Democratic. Last Tuesday, a Democratic wave swept the nation (much smaller in size than the GOP wave of 94') and Georgia, due to the clout of our new ruling class, bucked the trend by keeping the status quo. But it could all change. Plus, the much of the GOPs backers in this state are transplants in and around the metro areas---in fact, Cobb County is one of the most conservative counties in Georgia right now.

Also, not trying to take a swipe against Virginia, but I was horrified when I saw how close George Allen came to winning. The fact that a racist could get that far in a race......well, I don't think that would happen in Maryland or Pennsylvania.....

[DCMetroRaleigh]

Apologies to Alaska and Hawaii.

[lupitachica]

Good info on Georgia's Civil Rights History

http://www.georgiaencyclopedia.org/nge/Article.jsp?id=h-2716

[DCMetroRaleigh]

The Dakotas both have Democratic congressional representatives? Wow.

[Pillsbury]

What is Georgia's history during the civil rights movement? I am a little foggy on GA's reaction.

[ChiefJoJo]

NC Baptists approve Gay ban (here's another link).

"It's the only sin that we're trying to publish in our school books and teach our children, that this is just a lifestyle," said Bill Sanderson of Wendell, who is the pastor behind the proposal. "Why don't we do that for murders, thieves? Why don't we do that for other groups?"

"It's not something we chose," said Sanderson, speaking at a press conference following the vote. "It's something that's been thrust on us."

NC is still very much a southern state.