My President

[Charlotte_native]

Bush wants to give amnesty to the illegals which I am against, and now amazingly after he told us that Social Security is in danger of collapse, he wants to start paying SS benefits to the illegals.

[michaelskis]

I don

[Gusterfell]

I think that there are many good choices made by the administration and I think that in the long run, I think that we will learn from the Iraq war. I also think that his education demands in the long run will be seen as the moment where education changed for the better in the United States.

[michaelskis]

We learned a lot from Vietnam. That doesn't make those who got us bogged down there great leaders.

As for education, which of Bush's policies are going to change things for the better? Unrealistic standards that leave teachers teaching only what is on the standardized tests? Equating science education with religious mythology? Replacing sex education with abstinence-only programs that have been proven ineffective? Slashing student financial aid while college costs skyrocket? I don't see it.

[Gusterfell]

^I agree with all that but nothing Bush has done or even proposed addresses any of these issues.

[Captain Worley]

The world has already awarded Carter the Nobel Peace Prize. This was rightly deserved too as he did more for the common person than any president since FDR. I will agree that it will take at least 50 years for most of the world to forget how bad Bush was as a president. I am willing to bet money that he won't be winning in Nobel prizes while we wait.

It makes one wonder why anyone who would join this forum would honestly claim that Bush was the best president in the nation's history. Even his own supporters no longer do this and most of them would be against most of the things that we advocate for on this forum. Maybe you are just throwing out flame bait as you suggest.

[Charlotte_native]

Additionally, I think that Bush did the right thing when he acted on the information presented to him on the Iraq war, but we have to find a way to get out without picking up the tents and walking to the boarder.

[Gusterfell]

^It was apparent at the time that the intelligence was being manipulated. To imply now, in hindsight, that Bush was unknowingly acting on bad intelligence is absurd. He knew what he was doing. Many, many people in a position to know have said so.

[Captain Worley]

Follow that with a complete, apparant, lack of understanding of what would actually happen after we invaded, IMO this is perhaps the worst blunder our government has ever done.

[monsoon]

As for flame baiting, no, I'm not. That's the way I feel about things. In the 'Please read' section of the Coffee House, it says "Please feel free to join in but please show respect towards the others and follow our rules." You may disagree with my opinions, but please respect that they are my opinions regardless of how you feel about them.

[Captain Worley]

^Actually, I didn't realize what way the wind blew when I joined because I didn't have access to the coffee house. I think dissenting opinions are good though, as is healthy debate. I may not agree with everyone opinions, but I enjoy hearing them.

[monsoon]

This is a site devoted to good urban planning, environmental responsibility, mass transit funding, alternative energy and conservation, reduction to highway spending and automobile based development, and so forth. In other words, everything the GOP and Bush in particular is opposed to. I would have thought that would have been evident before the coffee house was made available to you.

[Captain Worley]

This is a site devoted to good urban planning, environmental responsibility, mass transit funding, alternative energy and conservation, reduction to highway spending and automobile based development, and so forth. In other words, everything the GOP and Bush in particular is opposed to. I would have thought that would have been evident before the coffee house was made available to you.

[monsoon]

Ahh OK, but then that is a pretty low standard for one that you said would be the best president.

[Captain Worley]

Yeah, but I really think a stable middle east may be possible, and if so he'll look good overall in retrospect. I think he'll eventually open the purse springs on alternative energy sources. He'll almost have to.

If not, yep, he won't be remembered too fondly.

[nowensone]

Here's what I'm wondering: Can Obama get elected despite a past use of cocaine since Bush did?

[GRDadof3]

Yeah, but I really think a stable middle east may be possible, and if so he'll look good overall in retrospect. I think he'll eventually open the purse springs on alternative energy sources. He'll almost have to.

If not, yep, he won't be remembered too fondly.

[Captain Worley]

^^He's still got two years left. Its not really too late to introduce new policies.

[nowensone]

It's too late for Bush to introduce any kind of substantial energy policy. His term is almost over.

Thomas Friedman of the NY Times had ANOTHER great editorial (he's on a roll) regarding energy policy and the Ford presidency, and how Bush could learn a lot:

Remember Ford as the first energy president

(please read the article before responding)

[monsoon]

^Indeed. Reagan/Bush and Bush Jr. dismantled all of the work that was done in the 70s to get us off foreign oil instead preferring to encourage consumption. Hopefully by the time that Bush Jr. is out of office, Reaganism, which has taken the USA to new lows, will finally be over with.

[Captain Worley]

How much of what Ford wanted came to pass? I know they haven't built any nuclear plants since '75, and the number of refineries has actually gone down. I don't think any new coal mines have been opened, but can't swear to that...

[nowensone]

^^ You know, the pitfalls of Reaganomics is standard classroom material in any economics class, as well as being common knowledge to those in government, but lately it seems as if not only is this not true anymore, but that Reaganomics is actually making a comeback. I don't get it.

v - Reaganism and Reaganomics are entertwined and relevant because Bush is practicing the major features of Reaganomics - reduce taxes and increase spending. The Voodoo reference is partially what I was referring to - Reagan's own man recognized the pitfalls of Reaganomics and began a common sense trend away from it, but in some ways it is making a comeback.

[monsoon]

Reaganism isn't the same as Reagonimics which basically says if you make the rich more wealthy then everyone benefits. Of course that isn't true, but 30 years of Reaganism is causing it to happen. It should be noted that when Bush Sr. was running against Reagan for the 1980 primary, he referred to it as Voodoo Economics. Probably the only correct thing the man has ever said.

[GRDadof3]

^^He's still got two years left. Its not really too late to introduce new policies.

[JDC]

Reaganism isn't the same as Reagonimics which basically says if you make the rich more wealthy then everyone benefits. Of course that isn't true, but 30 years of Reaganism is causing it to happen. It should be noted that when Bush Sr. was running against Reagan for the 1980 primary, he referred to it as Voodoo Economics. Probably the only correct thing the man has ever said.